Speeding.....

[Dave *]

Not so far it hasn't.
It is a direct breach of the EHA as you have the right to silence.
The worst that happens is they insist you fill it in

It actually has (as I said), the ECHR case was O’HALLORAN AND FRANCIS v. THE UNITED KINGDOM and was decided 15-2 in favour of the government and so s172 is now judged to not breach the right to silence (or any Freeman of the Land crap you might also want to use).

ECHR "Right to Silence" Verdict
The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has rejected the combined appeals of Gerard O'Halloran and Idris Francis against the United Kingdom by a majority of 15 to 2.

This verdict enables the British Government's to continue to force motorists to incriminate themselves using S172 of the Road Traffic Act, which is almost always the only evidence of the driver's identity in speed camera cases - a denial of the right to silence that applies if you are charged with almost any other criminal offence. In both of the cases appealed to the ECHR, as in hundreds of others every day in the UK, S172 was used or threatened in order to force a confession:

• Mr O'Halloran was compelled to name himself as the driver of a car at the time of an alleged offence under threat of criminal sanction under S172, and that was used to convict him of the criminal offence of speeding.
• Mr Francis refused to incriminate himself and sent a letter to the police to the effect that he was asserting his rights under Article 6.1 of the European Convention on Human Rights. He was convicted of failing to provide the driver's details.

http://www.pepipoo.com/Section_172.htm

http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-81359

 

[big soft moose]

i guess you could say going 75mph on a motorway is a "victimless crime" so ok - similar to cycling along and going through a red pedestrian crossing when there are no peds in sight.

until the day when an error of judgement leads to an accident or a pedestrian you didnt see gets injured...the rules are there for a reason, which is why they are enforced

that said 75 indicated is probably not much over 70 in reality so you probably wouldnt get a ticket for it

 

[boliston]

until the day when an error of judgement leads to an accident or a pedestrian you didnt see gets injured...the rules are there for a reason, which is why they are enforced

that said 75 indicated is probably not much over 70 in reality so you probably wouldnt get a ticket for it

i think a lot of people justify law breaking as and when it suits THEM

 

[Byker28i]

i guess you could say going 75mph on a motorway is a "victimless crime" so ok - similar to cycling along and going through a red pedestrian crossing when there are no peds in sight.

Our local scameraship was stopped parking their vans on motorway bridges and recording cars speeding on the motorway, but not before they had ticketed thousands for anywhere 75 mph plus.

The law was used against them, as they obstructed a footpath (by parking on it) and hadn't applied for permission to do so, nor correctly barriering it off.

 

[RedRobin]

i think a lot of people justify law breaking as and when it suits THEM

....Of course! Laws are made by other men/women and that doesn't automatically mean that ALL laws are right. Once upon a time a Magistrate asked me if I thought I was above the law - I just smiled and said nothing. Be aware of what laws exist but apply your own common sense and morality.

 

[big soft moose]

... Be aware of what laws exist but apply your own common sense and morality.

but don't cry like a baby if you get caught. (not that the OP has, but some other posts indicate a waaaaaah attitude)

end of the day all of us have complete freedom - we can do anything so long as we also accept the consequences of the action - so ifsomeone wants to drive like a knob thats their choice, but they should also accept the points/fine/ban etc that result when/if they get caught

 

[RedRobin]

but don't cry like a baby if you get caught. (not that the OP has, but some other posts indicate a waaaaaah attitude)

end of the day all of us have complete freedom - we can do anything so long as we also accept the consequences of the action - so ifsomeone wants to drive like a knob thats their choice, but they should also accept the points/fine/ban etc that result when/if they get caught

....I wholeheartedly agree.

"It's a fair cop, guv"

 

[rick448]

double post.

 

[rick448]

but don't cry like a baby if you get caught. (not that the OP has, but some other posts indicate a waaaaaah attitude)

end of the day all of us have complete freedom - we can do anything so long as we also accept the consequences of the action - so ifsomeone wants to drive like a knob thats their choice, but they should also accept the points/fine/ban etc that result when/if they get caught

I fully agree. Drive like a knob and face the consequences. Driving over the speed limit does not necessarily constitute driving like a knob though. In fact I get paid to do it, as do many of those who uphold the law.

 

[Keith W]

In that case you either do not drive or you are not being truthful with yourself.

Bingo! We have a winner! Give this man a cigar!

I don't drive

 

[Pookeyhead]

No, I meant to say

Edit... just spotted the punchline further up

 

[Lynton]

I just don't speed full stop

Have never gone over the speed limit and never will

Honestly? You've never broken a speed limit???????????

 

[Pookeyhead]

I fully agree. Drive like a knob and face the consequences. Driving over the speed limit does not necessarily constitute driving like a knob though. In fact I get paid to do it, as do many of those who uphold the law.

^This. I wish people would be more honest in threads like this. I drive sensibly. That doesn't mean I don't sometimes drive fast. Only today I was driving through a part of my home town at around 25, because that was an appropriate speed, despite being posted as 30. People were overtaking me despite parks cars on either side narrowing the road to barely enough to pass each other, kids around, and three pedestrian crossings. Those same people would have probably thought me a knob if they saw me later on boot in 2nd right the way up to the national speed limit on a dual carriageway before grabbing third.... despite doing absolutely nothing wrong.

 

[Pookeyhead]

Honestly? You've never broken a speed limit???????????

Dude.. read the thread,. LOL

 

[Jelster]

Nothing wrong with speeding. Its inappropriate speed that is dangerous.

Completely agree. Speed limits were set up in the 60's, cars have changed a great deal since then. Doing 85mph on a motorway in a BMW M3 is much safer than 60mph is an old Hillman Imp. One is illegal the other is just bloody dangerous !

However, if you are going to speed, be prepared to take the punishment if you're caught.

 

[dejongj]

Some cars are near impossible to crash. I guess that is why the actuaries determined that the risk for my hyperhatch is very low and it is only £136/annum to insure fully comprehensive

Just a shame of all the other idiots on the road

 

[Peter69]

It actually has (as I said), the ECHR case was O’HALLORAN AND FRANCIS v. THE UNITED KINGDOM and was decided 15-2 in favour of the government and so s172 is now judged to not breach the right to silence (or any Freeman of the Land crap you might also want to use).


http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-81359

Thanks for the info. As you can guess from the date of the case speeding is not an everyday thing for me.
As for detectors, blinders and ir bloking number plate; I believe them all to be a bit iffy. But my 'blinder' is used to open my drives gates and garage door.

I've never heard of a freeman arguement before, that sounds like some kind of warped American argument.

 

[RedRobin]

Some of the most potentially dangerous drivers on the roads nowadays are those who do 45 mph in a 60 mph limit and then continue doing 40-45 mph when they go through a 30 mph zone.

It's not helped by others who create a nose-to-tail train behind them and not leaving space for those with cars with the power to overtake. If I see a more powerful car, or a motorbike, in my rear view mirrors whose body language (position on road) makes it clear they wish to overtake, I create space for them to do so.

 

[Phil Young]

I just don't speed full stop

Have never gone over the speed limit and never will

I have a cure for that...

Buy yourself a yamaha R1... you'll rarely find yourself under the limit!

 

[Pookeyhead]

Some cars are near impossible to crash. I guess that is why the actuaries determined that the risk for my hyperhatch is very low and it is only £136/annum to insure fully comprehensive

Just a shame of all the other idiots on the road

What the hell is a hyperhatch?? LOL... and why is it near impossible to crash? Are you not in full control of it? Can it think for you?

 

[dejongj]

What the hell is a hyperhatch?? LOL... and why is it near impossible to crash? Are you not in full control of it? Can it think for you?

A hot hatchback that is so much more hotter that you cant really place it in the same category any more.

There is a little manufacturers race going on between them. I include the Mercedes A45 AMG, BMW 135M and the best of the bunch, Volkswagen Golf R.

No it cant think for the driver, however it can respond quicker to nearly any situation than the driver can. More importantly the actuaries seem to acknowledge that considering the super low insurance premiums.

 

[Byker28i]

A hot hatchback that is so much more hotter that you cant really place it in the same category any more.

There is a little manufacturers race going on between them. I include the Mercedes A45 AMG, BMW 135M and the best of the bunch, Volkswagen Golf R.

No it cant think for the driver, however it can respond quicker to nearly any situation than the driver can. More importantly the actuaries seem to acknowledge that considering the super low insurance premiums.

The new Honda Civc R - even more BHP and performance than the Golf R

 

[Byker28i]

I have a cure for that...

Buy yourself a yamaha R1... you'll rarely find yourself under the limit!

Nah I have a ZZR1200 which is ridden most days. 0-60 in 2.5 secs, 0-100 in 6 secs. You still have a good inkling of the speed you are going and can control it easily with the right hand.

Generally speaking the acceleration gets you so far ahead you don't need to speed (much - generally about 80 indicated)

 

[Phil Young]

Nah I have a ZZR1200 which is ridden most days. 0-60 in 2.5 secs, 0-100 in 6 secs. You still have a good inkling of the speed you are going and can control it easily with the right hand.

Generally speaking the acceleration gets you so far ahead you don't need to speed (much - generally about 80 indicated)

It's not about *needing* to speed

 

[PaulF]

Back to the op, 1st speeding offence in a 30 zone will not alter your insurance, you clearly have no intention of repeating it so unless you just want to keep a clean licence just take the points, pay the fine and move on.
Out of interest, if you were to take the course, would you have to still declare a motoring conviction to your insurance company?

Oh, one other thing, I wouldn't mention to anyone official that you hadn't noticed you'd gone from a 40 to a 30 zone when it was signed as that 'could' be interpreted as driving without due care and attention.

 

[boliston]

i think part of the deal with the course is that any conviction is waived

 

[dejongj]

The new Honda Civc R - even more BHP and performance than the Golf R

Sounds great. Isn't on their website though??? I just looked and couldn't see it. Its never been my kind of character of car; high revving and a bit chav looking, but interested to see what the current version will be like.

 

[Byker28i]

Oh it's on the website.
http://www.honda.co.uk/cars/comingsoon/type-r/

There's been a few disguised driving around recently.

Oh and watch out for the track focussed model thats coming (allegedly)

 

[dejongj]

Nice one. A bit too hardcore looking for my liking, too much of too fast too furious in it. That is a lot if power for just the front wheels, so despite slightly more power it is actually slower by a whopping full second than the Golf R for example.

However it is nice to see more hyperhatches entering the market.

 

[Pookeyhead]

A hot hatchback that is so much more hotter that you cant really place it in the same category any more.

So a hot hatch then... as none of the cars you list are particularly "hyper". I'd expect hyper car performance in a hatch to warrant "hyper-hatch".

No it cant think for the driver, however it can respond quicker to nearly any situation than the driver can

Explain. please.... if I get lift off over-steer mid corner... is it, or is it not up to me to do something about it, or the car?



I can't help but feel that imagining your car is un-crashable will only end in tears.

 

[dejongj]

So a hot hatch then... as none of the cars you list are particularly "hyper". I'd expect hyper car performance in a hatch to warrant "hyper-hatch".






Explain. please.... if I get lift off over-steer mid corner... is it, or is it not up to me to do something about it, or the car?



I can't help but feel that imagining your car is un-crashable will only end in tears.

Oh stop trying to make an argument where there is none. If you think you know better than insurance actuaries then feel free to offer your services to the industry dealing with it day in and day out.

 

[Pookeyhead]

I'm not JP... but seriously... can I drive it like a knob with impunity? If not... then it's not really going to be un-crashable.

 

[BT Bob]

Out of interest, if you were to take the course, would you have to still declare a motoring conviction to your insurance company?

No - because you don't have a motoring conviction.

That's one of the reasons access to the course is limited - it's omnly available if you've "just" gone over the limit and if you haven't had one (or a fine) in the previous (I think) 4 years - it may be 3 years, can't remember exactly..

 

[PaulF]

No - because you don't have a motoring conviction.

That's one of the reasons access to the course is limited - it's omnly available if you've "just" gone over the limit and if you haven't had one (or a fine) in the previous (I think) 4 years - it may be 3 years, can't remember exactly..

Cheers, was just wondering.

 

[dejongj]

I'm not JP... but seriously... can I drive it like a knob with impunity? If not... then it's not really going to be un-crashable.

No you cant. However the risks has been assessed and when driven within normal parameters the risk of crashing it is deemed very very low.

 

[Pookeyhead]

No you cant. However the risks has been assessed and when driven within normal parameters the risk of crashing it is deemed very very low.

Not trying to be funny here, but within "normal parameters" isn't that the case for almost any modern car?

 

[dejongj]

Not trying to be funny here, but within "normal parameters" isn't that the case for almost any modern car?

Not everycar will have radar systems integrated to automatically brake when the person in front does something daft. In my 15k miles I had it intervene twice where it braked quicker than I did. Although I still would have been ok.

Once though some old fool came from the tight from an unhardened surface and decided to pull out right in front of me. Yes I saw him way back, but hey it was an unhardened surface, he came to a halt, even looked in my direction, yet then still went for it. Without front assist im pretty certain I would have gone in the side of him.

If you like we can try it out at the megga meet in June as part of a high speed photography challenge. You remain standing in front and ill accelerate as fast as I can with all my horses towards you and won't hjt the brakes

 

[Pookeyhead]

Not everycar will have radar systems integrated to automatically brake when the person in front does something daft.

I meant it's not just "hyperhatches" that have this. It's quite common on many new cars now.


I admit the technology makes accidents through inattentiveness less likely.. you've no argument from me there. I think it's pretty sad they're required these days. There's just too much to distract a driver these days. It shouldn't be bloody necessary. If teh person in front of me does something daft, it won't effect me, as I'll be a suitable distance behind him. He can slam on as hard as he wants, and it won't bother me. If someone pulls out in front me me, then fine.. it may be nice to have.. agreed.

Once though some old fool came from the tight from an unhardened surface and decided to pull out right in front of me. Yes I saw him way back, but hey it was an unhardened surface, he came to a halt, even looked in my direction, yet then still went for it. Without front assist im pretty certain I would have gone in the side of him.

If you saw him way back, why was this necessary? If you saw him way back, why would you have hit him?

If you like we can try it out at the megga meet in June as part of a high speed photography challenge. You remain standing in front and ill accelerate as fast as I can with all my horses towards you and won't hjt the brakes

I'd rather not trust such technology thanks. Knowing my luck, that will be the day one of it's sensors decides to fail. Which is my point.. learn to rely on stuff like this and slowly, as a population, driving standards will fall. Just as many people couldn't find their arse from their elbow these days without bloody sat nav.

 

[dejongj]

Why would I come to a halt when it is my right of way, that vehicle actually came to a halt as it should, has no right if way, even looks in my direction yet still decides to go when I'm really really close.

I'm glad you are mister perfect, however if I was behind you on that road and all of a sudden you braked for no reason I wouldn't be happy.

I really don't understand what you are trying to argue here.

 

[rick448]

More and more technogical intervention dumbs driving down even more. Cars are now safer than ever and the actual driving of them is just an afterthought for many people.

As I've often heard quoted if you want people to drive safer then remove all seatbelts and other safety systems and stick a 6" dagger out of the steering wheel.