"Speeding" on country roads

The fact that you saw the horses and brought your car to a controlled stop before you reached them is proof enough that you were driving at an appropriate speed.

Does this rider expect you and everyone to creep around at 20MPH everywhere just in case there's a skittish horse around the next corner?
 
Overexposed said:
I'm not looking for an Argument either - you asked for an opinion which I gave!
At then of the day its a rural road with unsighted bends - you mention being 'on the brakes', exiting a corner at 40 mph - if you were exiting the bend at 40 mph presumably your entry speed was higher? My point is that a rural road is a rural road with other users on it - animals tractors and sometimes very unexpected obstructions - I drive these type of roads everyday, and i've seen appalling driving and accidents caused including a horse knocked down which had to be put down which believe me was horrendous. I also agree some horse riders can be overprotective and sometimes bloody awkward but they've a right to be there too. My mantra is simple ,drive defensively down rural roads! You don't need to be ' on the brakes' or exiting corners at 40 mph. You stopped in time - great but wouldn't t have been easier to stop comfortably and ease past respecting the fact its an animal you are going past not a machine? At the end of the day you can drive however you want . I'm sure you do want to get back to your wife and kids but remember too that to a horse rider you being able to stop is different to just easing past and not potentially spooking what they are riding.
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And I said I appreciated your opinions, which I did indeed ask for :)

Without wanting to digress into a "how to drive around bends" monologue, you should generally enter bends slower than you exit them. Using the accelerator rather than the brake when driving through a bend typically leads to the car being more stable, especially for rear wheel drive cars (which mine predominantly is). I'm afraid I can't recall the exact microseconds, but I expect I would have been accelerating as I unwound the steering out of the last bit of bend as the road opened in front of me... except at that moment I saw the horses and applied the brakes instead. I would never by default be on the brakes coming around a bend - braking and steering is not a clever combination, especially in the wet. But let's not forget this is not a tight bend - my hands might have moved to 2 o'clock or something and back?

It sounds like we both drive these same sorts of roads then - perhaps we drive them at slightly different speeds sometimes but it sounds like we're both doing so safely (you may disagree with that). I don't need to be exiting corners at 40mph, you're correct. I could simply walk everywhere - as could you. But that's a silly line of argument for either of us to be making so let's not go there.

In over 20 years of driving - and almost all of that in rural, countryside locations - but quite often busy ones - this is the first time anything like this has ever happened to me. That tells me I could be anything from a crazed lunatic who's been very very lucky, through to a very careful driver who has just happened across a crazed lunatic on a horse. I suspect the reality is somewhere in between, but hopefully nearer the latter than the former :)
 
EdwardL said:
I've not read all the posts here and the original post sounds an unfortunate incident. The trouble with horses is they are flight animals and all sorts of things can spook them. It might not have been the approaching car as the horse might have seen something through the hedge or whatever.

A flapping, fluorescent arm asking you to slow down won't help keep a horse calm either lol - and that could easily have been the reason for the rearing!

Best course of action? For BOTH of you to say sorry to each other. Things like this happen on the roads.

In the supermarket, if I bump my trolley into the old dear's trolley in the aisle by mistake and make her grab the handle a little tighter, she doesn't swear at me and I don't tell her she's a silly old bag who shouldn't have moved her trolley. We apologise to each other. If only more of us - car drivers, horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians, white van man and so on - if only more of us were rather more polite to each other on the roads.
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Top post, Edward. The reason I posted the OP in the first place is that I was frankly a bit disappointed in myself for having reacted at all. Which then made me wonder if I was being defensive and was obviously in the wrong - hence asking for views.

You must live in a nice part of the UK - I've seen (fortunately not experienced) "trolley rage" at our Tesco... one such incident included a somewhat elderly gentleman barging people out of the way with his trolley and shouting at them! I think he wanted to get to the "reduced to clear" corner first... :eek:

It's funny how when we're on the road we can develop "insulated" and almost unnaturally aggressive tendancies. I've seen this happen to people on bikes, obviously in cars and now on horses. We're strange creatures!
 
pjm1 said:
It's funny how when we're on the road we can develop "insulated" and almost unnaturally aggressive tendancies. I've seen this happen to people on bikes, obviously in cars and now on horses. We're strange creatures!
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Not really - people are people. Some will react indignantly whether in a car or on a horse, or a cycle, just the same as others will react with decorum.
 
Byker28i said:
Not really - people are people. Some will react indignantly whether in a car or on a horse, or a cycle, just the same as others will react with decorum.
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Sort of... but I've seen some people who are really quite placid normally (well, most of the time) become fearless sociopaths behind the wheel or handlebars! But then maybe that's the real "them" coming out... (I'm thinking with one I know it probably is!)
 
pjm1 said:
And I said I appreciated your opinions, which I did indeed ask for :)

Without wanting to digress into a "how to drive around bends" monologue, you should generally enter bends slower than you exit them. Using the accelerator rather than the brake when driving through a bend typically leads to the car being more stable, especially for rear wheel drive cars (which mine predominantly is). I'm afraid I can't recall the exact microseconds, but I expect I would have been accelerating as I unwound the steering out of the last bit of bend as the road opened in front of me... except at that moment I saw the horses and applied the brakes instead. I would never by default be on the brakes coming around a bend - braking and steering is not a clever combination, especially in the wet. But let's not forget this is not a tight bend - my hands might have moved to 2 o'clock or something and back?

It sounds like we both drive these same sorts of roads then - perhaps we drive them at slightly different speeds sometimes but it sounds like we're both doing so safely (you may disagree with that). I don't need to be exiting corners at 40mph, you're correct. I could simply walk everywhere - as could you. But that's a silly line of argument for either of us to be making so let's not go there.

In over 20 years of driving - and almost all of that in rural, countryside locations - but quite often busy ones - this is the first time anything like this has ever happened to me. That tells me I could be anything from a crazed lunatic who's been very very lucky, through to a very careful driver who has just happened across a crazed lunatic on a horse. I suspect the reality is somewhere in between, but hopefully nearer the latter than the former :)
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Thanks for the driving lesson which after 36 years of driving I will politely decline! - unfortunately you missed the most important part - just drive defensively on rural roads and don't become a statistic regardless of how technically competent you think you are!
 
Overexposed said:
Thanks for the driving lesson which after 36 years of driving I will politely decline! - unfortunately you missed the most important part - just drive defensively on rural roads and don't become a statistic regardless of how technically competent you think you are!
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I felt I was! That's the bit I think we're in disagreement about. But anyway, it's been an interesting discussion - not sure I'm really any the wiser and hopefully I won't come across a similar incident for another 20 years or more.
 
Damn horses I have one that stops dead when it sees the van.
Why you might ask, well I was crossing the road one day as it came along
and I gave it a mint, won't move now till it gets one when it sees me, and the rider
is an ex mounted police lady
Who says horses are dumb :LOL:
 
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Gremlin said:
Damn horses I have one that stops dead when it sees the van.
Why you might ask, well I was crossing the road one day as it came along
and I gave it a mint, won't move now till it gets one when it sees me, and the rider
is an mounted police lady
Who says horses are dumb :LOL:
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The horse has the right of way anyway !
 
Russ77 said:
The fact that you saw the horses and brought your car to a controlled stop before you reached them is proof enough that you were driving at an appropriate speed.

Does this rider expect you and everyone to creep around at 20MPH everywhere just in case there's a skittish horse around the next corner?
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Well said that man
 
Blank_Canvas said:
The horse has the right of way anyway !
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:thinking: meaning ? We are usually travelling the same way, often I'm parked whilst delivering, come back and the horse is waiting patiently behind the van
 
EdwardL said:
I've not read all the posts here and the original post sounds an unfortunate incident. The trouble with horses is they are flight animals and all sorts of things can spook them. It might not have been the approaching car as the horse might have seen something through the hedge or whatever.

A flapping, fluorescent arm asking you to slow down won't help keep a horse calm either lol - and that could easily have been the reason for the rearing!

Best course of action? For BOTH of you to say sorry to each other. Things like this happen on the roads.

In the supermarket, if I bump my trolley into the old dear's trolley in the aisle by mistake and make her grab the handle a little tighter, she doesn't swear at me and I don't tell her she's a silly old bag who shouldn't have moved her trolley. We apologise to each other. If only more of us - car drivers, horse riders, cyclists, pedestrians, white van man and so on - if only more of us were rather more polite to each other on the roads.
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Apart from White van men and Nissan drivers are a unique breed of c&^t.

Horses aren't designed for roads, I ride and would I ride them on a road, not a chance.
 
pjm1 said:
Ok, a frustrating incident happened during the weekend. I was coming back from a long couple of days on the mountains. I live in the countryside and I'm driving along on one of the "better" country roads about 5 miles from home. It's a single carriageway (i.e. cars can pass each other in both directions) rather than a single track road - of which there are quite a few, but it's not an A road by any stretch.

The road is quite twisty and it has been wet, so I'm doing about 40. I turn a corner and ahead are two riders on horses so I immediately brake. The lead rider in a fluorescent vest waves the "slow down" arm sign which I'm already doing and I come to a complete stop well before I reach them. By this time, though, her horse has reared up - she seems to have it under control pretty quickly but I'm guessing it's a slightly skittish horse. The other horse/rider was fine.

She rides over and starts giving me dogs' abuse about speeding on a country road. I'm pretty shocked - I was going slow enough to stop before I got to them and, in my eyes, roads are for all users whether they be pedestrians, cycles, riders or motorists - but let's be honest, the most common users are motorists and everyone has to expect that. Given the speed limit was 60, I felt that driving at 40 was appropriate to the conditions and was proved to be the case by the fact I stopped comfortably.

I'll confess I lost my rag a bit with her, which I'm not proud of, but I felt that if you're not able to control your horse on the public road, you shouldn't take it there.

I'm all in favour of sharing the roads and making them safe for everyone. But that has to work both ways. Also, I don't really have the ability to take my car off the road onto a field to get where I want to go - they do (as do walkers... and as one I'll often choose this rather than be on the road).

Does anyone think my actions were bad/wrong? Should I have apologised for driving at an appropriate speed for the road, but perhaps not for their horses? I'm genuinely not sure what I would do differently next time... I'm not convinced it's reasonable to expect me to drive around at 30 mph just in case there's a skittish horse further up the road. Incidentally, my car has a reasonably loud engine so they will have heard me coming... which may also have led to them assuming I was going faster than I was.
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Based on how you described it, I don't think you've done anything wrong. Id anything the horse riders overreacted.

To qualify, I drive various cars, and we also ride horses.

To me this is no different to people having a rant in their car for no obvious reason. Too many seemingly uptight people about.
 
I would like to add, that I live in a village, and some of the worst offenders for speeding along our country lanes, are the "horsey" people who own Range Rovers and the like, who totally ignore the 30 limit in the village and are lethal on the NSL stretches outside the village.
 
fabs said:
Mrs fabs just got home and read the OP.

She says that, if her horse spooked on the road, her concentration would solely be on her. Hurling abuse at a motorist whilst on a horse that just spooked does no-one any good whatsoever, least of all he horse!

A good point I thought.
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Thanks for that, Marc (and Mrs Fabs). It also occurred to me that the person giving me the abuse might actually have been giving the other rider a lesson! I hadn't thought about that until now - hopefully she's not an instructor because I don't really think hurling abuse is something we want being taught :eek:
 
Personally I hate the bloody things but with a reason about 30 years ago my oldest daughter who at the time worked for sheik Mohammed the race horse owner ,was thrown by one of the horses and badly trampled ,a passer by saw it and luckily called the ambulance ,she died 3 times in the ambulance and once in theatre ,but thankfully lived with various body parts missing spleen etc .so yes I hate them with a passion even more than cyclists ,and I,m now always extremely wary of horses on the road or off it .
The daughter though still has a love of horses and is now the C.E.O of the ex jockeys and stable workers charity ,and travels all over the country and mingles with royalty in her job
 
Sarg0r said:
You will always find some road users upsetting other road users - that is life
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It is a trait that exists in so many facets of life, not just on the road. I witnessed 'trolley rage' in Waitrose earlier this evening... place was 3/4 empty and 2 middle aged women got intto a flaming row over 'right of way' in the meats aisle. At least there was no bad language and the accents were 'genteel'. A 'huff' moment and they stormed off. Pleased to say no trolleys suffered permanent injury from the crash.....

I got a filtht look from one of the women.... I may have been sentenced for "grinning with intent to PMSL".

I wonder if their encounter will become a 'Facebook moment'? I will nevee know as TP is about the limit of my social media.

The 'sistas should just respeck each uvver'......
 
the black fox said:
Personally I hate the bloody things but with a reason about 30 years ago my oldest daughter who at the time worked for sheik Mohammed the race horse owner ,was thrown by one of the horses and badly trampled ,a passer by saw it and luckily called the ambulance ,she died 3 times in the ambulance and once in theatre ,but thankfully lived with various body parts missing spleen etc .so yes I hate them with a passion even more than cyclists ,and I,m now always extremely wary of horses on the road or off it .
The daughter though still has a love of horses and is now the C.E.O of the ex jockeys and stable workers charity ,and travels all over the country and mingles with royalty in her job
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Which Sheik Mohammed?
They're a dime a dozen.
And to be fair, one's heart can stop many times, but you only die once.
I'm pleased your daughter recovered; but it's not really a reason to 'hate' all horses.
 
pjm1 said:
That is spectacular in its ridiculousness, Steve... and it's hilarity! "Right of way in the meats aisle"... that pretty much defines first world problems :D
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I think it bemused me totally.... felt like an extra in 'Trollied'

On a serious note though, 'entitlement anger' (or Mockrage) seems to be everywhere. It used to be 'How dare you.....' now it can cause mayhem and, sadly, death for the most trivial matter.

I think that's why I really can't be arsed to get wound up about what are 'trivial' issues. Living outside of big towns/cities you get used to frustration, like the cows being moved from field to field or field to milking 'parlour'.

Animals don't do too well when they meet cars/lorries etc. The most radical for me was when travelling from Salisbury to Bath on a train. We stoppe near Bradford on Avon and 20 minutes later we were informed that a cow had been struck by the Southbound service and the train manager suggested we not look out the windows when we move on.... of course most did..... not pleasant

So due care on country lanes is mega important. Regular use often means getting over confident but visitors on the other hand can sometimes behave like they are on a racetrack. 18 years ago I moved down from London to the Mendips and on my first weekend I saw 3 country lane crashes. The local authority had a sign up on many roads that read 'Country people die on countrt roads'. Proved to be very true and it included my youngest son's best friend 6 years ago.
 
Something I read recently (seeing as the thread has moved on a little) ... for those who think it's okay to drive just a little over the speed limit and don't really count it as speeding.

If you drive at 30mph your (modern) car will stop in about 6 car lengths or 23 metres.

Imagine a child runs out 23 meters ahead of you but instead of doing 30mph, you're travelling at "only" 32mph. You won't stop in time (laws of physics) but instead you'll hit that child at 11mph while you are still trying to stop your car.
 
EdwardL said:
Something I read recently (seeing as the thread has moved on a little) ... for those who think it's okay to drive just a little over the speed limit and don't really count it as speeding.

If you drive at 30mph your (modern) car will stop in about 6 car lengths or 23 metres.

Imagine a child runs out 23 meters ahead of you but instead of doing 30mph, you're travelling at "only" 32mph. You won't stop in time (laws of physics) but instead you'll hit that child at 11mph while you are still trying to stop your car.
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The stats do make grim reading but it's so easy to 'just' creep over the limit without really realising it. Especially in modern cars I've glanced down of an evening when travelling back down a motorway and glanced at the speedo and found I'm north of the limit without even realising it. It's just too easy to do
 
Sarg0r said:
when travelling back down a motorway
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In my book that's fine as there shouldn't be pedestrians around :)

I did the advanced test (years ago) and the policeman who was my examiner told me he'd fail me if I broke the 30/40 by just 1mph but he was fine if I wanted to overtake and break a 50/60/70 limit during an overtake. Not sure that would stand in court these days though.
 
Sarg0r said:
Same as 30mph outside a school at 3pm isn't really acceptable
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Good point - so many people seem to ignore the 20 signs (whether or not enforceable) outside schools which is unbelievable. What shocks me is so many of the people ignoring these signs are dropping their kids off at school yet blasting through the area near school at 30 or sometimes even 35/40mph!

While we're on the subject: something that really bugs me is the "constant 40mph" driver - and there seem to be a few - who ignore the speed limits entirely and decide that 40mph is acceptable everywhere (I'm hoping they don't go on motorways).
 
What really hacks me off are people who do 40 mph in a restricted 50 zone on the motorway !
 
Blank_Canvas said:
What really hacks me off are people who do 40 mph in a restricted 50 zone on the motorway !
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Can't see anything wrong with 40 in a 50 as only 10 under the limit - it's a "limit" not a "target" - a lot of these have average speed cams with so better to play it safe, although i'd probably do 45 to allow a 5mph margin
 
Sarg0r said:
The stats do make grim reading but it's so easy to 'just' creep over the limit without really realising it. Especially in modern cars I've glanced down of an evening when travelling back down a motorway and glanced at the speedo and found I'm north of the limit without even realising it. It's just too easy to do
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My new car has a limiter that can be set without taking hand off the steering wheel. No need to get "Caught Out"(y) again! as I approach a 30 just set the limiter, simple really think all new cars should have them.
 
I use that feature rather than cruise control. Set to just above the legal limit rather than using it as a physical limit, so I am still controlling the speed rather than sitting there on the limit. A swift boot automatically cancels the limiter should I need to for any reason. Beeps at me if the car goes above the limit on a steep hill.
 
LASTOLITE said:
My new car has a limiter that can be set without taking hand off the steering wheel. No need to get "Caught Out"(y) again! as I approach a 30 just set the limiter, simple really think all new cars should have them.
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I think this should go further with on board cameras that read speed limit signs and give you an option to set a warning beep/and or limiter in your car if you exceed said limit.
 
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DorsetDude said:
I think this should go further with on board cameras that read speed limit signs and set a warning beep/and or limiter in your car if you exceed said limit.
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Mine does this also! Car has a scanning camera that will scan road signs and show the posted limit on the dash, I can then set an audible warning when breached. although this is manual, along with lane departure alarm and automatic headlight switching to hi / low beam, great on country roads (this is slow if on coming driver only has side lights on though)

Only thing thats missing is onboard journey recording which would be nice and I think is on its way soon for all cars!
 
Peteaud said:
Some car drivers are A holes
Some horse riders are A holes
Some Cyclists are A holes
Some walkers are A holes.
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don't forget motorcyclists loads of A holes
 
LASTOLITE said:
Mine does this also! Car has a scanning camera that will scan road signs and show the posted limit on the dash, I can then set an audible warning when breached. although this is manual, along with lane departure alarm and automatic headlight switching to hi / low beam, great on country roads (this is slow if on coming driver only has side lights on though)

Only thing thats missing is onboard journey recording which would be nice and I think is on its way soon for all cars!
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That's sounds pretty technologically advanced, what car is it?
 
boliston said:
Can't see anything wrong with 40 in a 50 as only 10 under the limit - it's a "limit" not a "target" - a lot of these have average speed cams with so better to play it safe, although i'd probably do 45 to allow a 5mph margin
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makes me laff all the tossers that insist you must be doing 60 in a 60, 50 in a 50.....etc

the posted limit is always the maximum permitted speed.

generally I wander round town at about 28 in a 30 as it suits my car better and it means I can hold my phone easier and my coffee cup, and do my make up, comb my hair.
sometimes I can even read the paper ok.
 
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