Speed Limits

Pound Coin said:
(The participants‘ general ignorance of speed limits and their indications, stopping distances and simple physics was sobering)
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Just before lockdown, I was visiting a g*lf club and they were hosting a speed awareness course. The car park had a well posted one way system. I was nearly mown down by a middle aged woman (and yes, I would have mentioned the gender had it been a man) sweeping in past the large "No Entry" sign.
 
Norkie said:
A good friend of mine can cycle faster than that on his electric bike or Road bike!
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Electric bike doesn't come into it. I can do more than 20mph on my mountain bike.

The issue I have with 20mph is it is generally rubbish for fuel economy and emissions. I'd prefer 35mph so you can get into 4th in a lot of diesels.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I was about to post a link to the "it's 30 for a reason" advert. But even though it was on prime time a decade or so ago, now it would come with a trigger warning.

You can argue all you like about whether speed causes accidents - but speed at impact is what causes death.

I don't particularly like the apparently random 20mph zones we have now - but a default 20 in built up areas sounds a pretty good idea.
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If we are talking 20mph in road like I live on, large cul de sac and goes round various roads on the estate then fine, as you probably cant do more than 20 anyway. But on say roads through villages just as they have houses on them, or major road routes, no way.

As a cyclist I would find it more dangerous, I would rather a car does 30 and get past me than doing 15-20 and being alongside me or to keep overtaking or being overtook as I am doing the same speed.
 
cambsno said:
As a cyclist I would find it more dangerous, I would rather a car does 30 and get past me than doing 15-20 and being alongside me or to keep overtaking or being overtook as I am doing the same speed.
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That's actually a very good point!

Most of the estates here are 30. any that have been accidents involving pedestrians have been lowered to 20, and some even have speed ramps, the full width of the road.
Most of the none estate roads ( Grid system) are duel carriageways with a 70 mph limit,
a handful are single carriageways, and they are mostly 60 mph.
 
Pound Coin said:
And, yes, I have been on a speed awareness course :D. (The participants‘ general ignorance of speed limits and their indications, stopping distances and simple physics was sobering)
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I have to agree, I did one a number of years ago, some thought the NSL on a single carriageway was 50, or 70, and many didn't know how to recognise an obvious 30mph area, or likewise for NSL.

Do people learn the highway code then just delete it from their memory?
 
Jelster said:
Do people learn the highway code then just delete it from their memory?
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It seems they learn enough to pass the driving test, and largely think it no longer applies to them once they do.
 
Jelster said:
I have to agree, I did one a number of years ago, some thought the NSL on a single carriageway was 50, or 70, and many didn't know how to recognise an obvious 30mph area, or likewise for NSL.

Do people learn the highway code then just delete it from their memory?
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Like anything, memory fades over time and you will forget things unless you constantly revisit, not to mention the various changes over the years.
 
cambsno said:
Like anything, memory fades over time and you will forget things unless you constantly revisit, not to mention the various changes over the years.
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What's changed?

I'm 60 years old, passed my test when I was 17. The NSL has always been 70 on dual carriageways, or 60 on a single carriageway. If you are "out of town" on a single carriageway, there are no street lights, and no speed limit signs, you're on a NSL road. Likewise, if you're in town, the roads are lit, and there's no speed limit signs, you're in a 30. Any other speed limit has "repeater" signs along the road. It's not rocket science!

Plus, if you get stopped for speeding, don't moan. YOU chose to go at that speed in that place, and if you thought that the speed limit was different, you just obviously were not being observant enough. The one thing about being on a speed awareness course that I noticed was that I was entirely aware of the speed I was doing (80 on a motorway in my M135 at the time). Many of the people there said they didn't know how fast they were going (WTF!) or didn't realise they were in a 30mph area.

I hold my hands up at driving over the limit in NSL's from time to time, my risk, and I'll pay the appropriate price should I get caught.
 
Jelster said:
What's changed?

I'm 60 years old, passed my test when I was 17. The NSL has always been 70 on dual carriageways, or 60 on a single carriageway. If you are "out of town" on a single carriageway, there are no street lights, and no speed limit signs, you're on a NSL road. Likewise, if you're in town, the roads are lit, and there's no speed limit signs, you're in a 30. Any other speed limit has "repeater" signs along the road. It's not rocket science!

Plus, if you get stopped for speeding, don't moan. YOU chose to go at that speed in that place, and if you thought that the speed limit was different, you just obviously were not being observant enough. The one thing about being on a speed awareness course that I noticed was that I was entirely aware of the speed I was doing (80 on a motorway in my M135 at the time). Many of the people there said they didn't know how fast they were going (WTF!) or didn't realise they were in a 30mph area.

I hold my hands up at driving over the limit in NSL's from time to time, my risk, and I'll pay the appropriate price should I get caught.
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Yeah the headline stuff is still there but I couldnt tell you how many meters it takes to stop a car, or how far a warning triangle should be.
 
Eh? I thought we were talking about speed limits. (And the idea that I have to stop on a busy roundabout to let out a cyclist is bloody insane!!).
 
Jelster said:
Eh? I thought we were talking about speed limits. (And the idea that I have to stop on a busy roundabout to let out a cyclist is bloody insane!!).
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My point was that the highway code changes frequently - or at least often.

For example, when I passed my test (and last read any more than a couple of sections) there was no section on trams.

The last change to speed limits according to Google was 2015 which was a change for HGVs for England, Wales and the A9. That's after the introduction of 20mph limits in 1991.
 
cambsno said:
Yeah the headline stuff is still there but I couldnt tell you how many meters it takes to stop a car, or how far a warning triangle should be.
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Given those stopping distance figures were historically based on a Morris Minor on cross ply tyres, I wouldn't rely on them too much. I used to be able to quote them, and could calculate them from scratch based on the speed as it was a simple formula using velocity (for distance covered in the reaction time) + a multiple of the square of the velocity (distance covered in the time taken for kinetic energy dissipation through the brakes, which is integral calculus).

Just looked it up:

30mph = 75ft
60mph = 240ft

so by inspection: d = v + v(v/20)

30 + 30(1.5) = 75
60 + 60(3) = 240

Given v is given in imperial units, quoting d in SI would be silly.

Nowadays I think along the lines of "at this speed, in this car, I can make a controlled stop by that point" without reference to what is displayed on the speedometer, or how knowing far away it actually is.
 
onomatopoeia said:
Given those stopping distance figures were historically based on a Morris Minor on cross ply tyres, I wouldn't rely on them too much. I used to be able to quote them, and could calculate them from scratch based on the speed as it was a simple formula using velocity (for distance covered in the reaction time) + a multiple of the square of the velocity (distance covered in the time taken for kinetic energy dissipation through the brakes, which is integral calculus).

Just looked it up:

30mph = 75ft
60mph = 240ft

so by inspection: d = v + v(v/20)

30 + 30(1.5) = 75
60 + 60(3) = 240

Given v is given in imperial units, quoting d in SI would be silly.

Nowadays I think along the lines of "at this speed, in this car, I can make a controlled stop by that point" without reference to what is displayed on the speedometer, or how knowing far away it actually is.
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The problem is your breaking space is an invitation for the guy in the Audi to pull out. If you're lucky, he'll signal after you've started breaking....
 
Well I took a drive around town here and I now know,

1/ How many people are happy to drive around at 20 mph!

2/ How many variations of car horn there are!

:eek:
 
Jelster said:
The problem is your breaking space is an invitation for the guy in the Audi to pull out. If you're lucky, he'll signal after you've started breaking....
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I have no idea what or who you are "breaking" but it's a good idea to know how much space you and others will need in order to "brake" safely... :naughty:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
I have no idea what or who you are "breaking" but it's a good idea to know how much space you and others will need in order to "brake" safely... :naughty:
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Damned corrective text... But you know what I mean, on many motorways, if you leave sufficient room for braking, somebody just thinks it's fine to pull out, and doesn't give a s*** if you then need to brake, and the car behind you needs to brake a bit harder, and so on. And then they get upset if you give them a bit of high beam... (You know, that is a valid warning to let somebody know you are there}. Perhaps he didn't see me with my headlights on dipped and my bright red roof.

Some days when I used to motorcycle to work, I was sure I had an invisible bike....
 
Fire appliances on blues and 2s get SMIDSYed so what chance do us mere mortals have?!
 
It s a fairly standard acronym amongst the more vulnerable road users. Often hear bikers and cyclists using it.
 
Pound Coin said:
It s a fairly standard acronym amongst the more vulnerable road users. Often hear bikers and cyclists using it.
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I've certainly never heard it, and I rode a motorbike for many years ( but not lately)
 
Cobra said:
I've certainly never heard it, and I rode a motorbike for many years ( but not lately)
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I haven't ridden for a good 8 or 9 years, but I'm fully aware of the term.
 
Jelster said:
I haven't ridden for a good 8 or 9 years, but I'm fully aware of the term.
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The thing about Nod is, he tends to make things like this, up as he goes along, don't you @Nod ? :p
I thought that was just another of his acronyms.

Maybe I've never put myself in the situation that made someone say it ;)
 
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Cobra said:
The thing about Nod is, he tends to make things like this, up as he goes along,
I thought that was just another of his acronyms.

Maybe I've never put myself in the situation that made someone say it ;)
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It usually crops up when bikers complain about having a near miss, you know, the day it's your turn to ride the invisible bike....
 
Jelster said:
It usually crops up when bikers complain about having a near miss, you know, the day it's your turn to ride the invisible bike....
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My car apparently has a Klingon cloaking device but none of ( past) my bikes :)
But as I said its been a few years, perhaps people were more considerate back then.
 
knowing how many feet it takes to stop a car is virtually irrelevant. Only because most people couldn't tell you with any degree of accuracy how far 75 feet or 118 feet is. (or their metric equivalent is)
 
Cobra said:
The thing about Nod is, he tends to make things like this, up as he goes along, don't you @Nod ? :p
I thought that was just another of his acronyms.

Maybe I've never put myself in the situation that made someone say it ;)
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Not often and certainly not recently. SMIDSY has been around for at least 30 years among bikers and plod (traffic, at least).
 
It seems we are going to be inflicted with this 20mph crap nationally next year in wales , nice little cash cow for das englunders that visit Us , a nice fine to say thanks for visiting ..
Seriously thinking of getting a electric mobility scooter trike type to get around on .. gonna be faster and cheaper to ..
 
TBH, my only problem with 20 limits is that they seem to encourage speedo rather than road watching. Here, they seem to be (mainly) in fairly sensible places (schools, residential areas etc.) and the ones we have to go through add about 2 minutes to the journey across town. If they save a couple of lives, I reckon that's a fairly small price to pay.
 
Nod said:
TBH, my only problem with 20 limits is that they seem to encourage speedo rather than road watching. Here, they seem to be (mainly) in fairly sensible places (schools, residential areas etc.) and the ones we have to go through add about 2 minutes to the journey across town. If they save a couple of lives, I reckon that's a fairly small price to pay.
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All it will take is for drivers to learn how fast 20 is. Like they have learnt how fast 30 is, or 40, or 50, or 60 or 70. A competent driver knows when they are speeding up, or slowing down. If they have to watch their speedo then they are not fit to drive.

One of the key requirements of passing a Driving Test is being able to control a vehicle. Speed is fundamental to that. Sometimes I wonder if the Motoring Lobby have forgotten that, as they pray at the altar of personal choice/responsibility.
 
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All the roads around my house are 20 zones, quite a distance from the main road, I just hit the cruise at20mph and know then I won’t go over- it’s all uphill- amazing how many of the residents from the newer houses don’t seem to understand speed limits, they are the ones who’s streets have no proper pavements and are full of kids playing on the paved areas, they’d soon be shouting if their kid was knocked down.
 
Nod said:
Not often and certainly not recently. SMIDSY has been around for at least 30 years among bikers and plod (traffic, at least).
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Unfortunately being neither a biker or plod I still don’t what SMIDSY means, but now I’ve lost interest in knowing, thanks for your help.
 
Sorry Mate I Didn’t See You is the first thing the driver of the car who knocked you off your bike say’s to you when he speaks to you.

SMIDSY :)

I’ve been unfortunate enough to have heard those words during my motorcycle years :(
 
mj4456 said:
Unfortunately being neither a biker or plod I still don’t what SMIDSY means, but now I’ve lost interest in knowing, thanks for your help.
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If you had bothered reading all the thread, it was explained further up the page.

It's basically an admission of driving without due care and attention.
 
I used to ride motorbikes and never knew the phrase SMIDSY until I saw it competing on Robot Wars.
 
Goldthirst said:
I used to ride motorbikes and never knew the phrase SMIDSY until I saw it competing on Robot Wars.
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Not just me then, and I've never watch robot wars though.
 
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