Speed Limits

I have mixed feeling on this.

I live in a 20mph limit and there are quite a few here and I do think they can be very justified for example there's a high street here with a limit of 30mph and due to pedestrians being way too distracted by phones these days or kids seemingly having been brought up with zero road sense 30mph is just too high and you really do need to reduce speed. On the other hand it does seem very difficult to see any justification for moving some other limits from 30 to 20moh.

So, I suppose if it's a blanket change I'd possibly be against it as I think limits are best applied due to conditions at that place.
 
A good friend of mine can cycle faster than that on his electric bike or Road bike!
 
Norkie said:
A good friend of mine can cycle faster than that on his electric bike or Road bike!
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He may aquire the dubious distinction of being a test case.... :naughty:
 
woof woof said:
I have mixed feeling on this.

I live in a 20mph limit and there are quite a few here and I do think they can be very justified for example there's a high street here with a limit of 30mph and due to pedestrians being way too distracted by phones these days or kids seemingly having been brought up with zero road sense 30mph is just too high and you really do need to reduce speed. On the other hand it does seem very difficult to see any justification for moving some other limits from 30 to 20moh.

So, I suppose if it's a blanket change I'd possibly be against it as I think limits are best applied due to conditions at that place.
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And, some responsibility has to go with the pedestrians in having road sense and being aware - the issue with speed limits too low is that people get annoyed and then take risks, or even spend a little more time concentrating on speed rather than awareness as 20mph seems very slow when driving it.
 
Unless its partnered by a massive increase in speed cameras to enforce it, it'll be rather meaningless.
 
lindsay said:
Unless its partnered by a massive increase in speed cameras to enforce it, it'll be rather meaningless.
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Every person driving at or around 20mph will be an enforcer. Much like 30, 40 and 50 now.

It is a great step forward, somewhat reducing the additional influence that drivers have over others, as a consequence of being motorised.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
He may aquire the dubious distinction of being a test case.... :naughty:
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On a road bike no. There are no speed restrictions on a human powered vehicle. A prosecution would come from other factors, such as recklessness, not the speed.

On an electric bike, it would depend - for a road legal one, same as above applies. For a non-road legal one, well, there are other laws there already.

Of course, there is always the possiblty of an ill-informed police officer applying the laws wrongly, such as in Daniel Cadden’s case.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
He may aquire the dubious distinction of being a test case.... :naughty:
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No, he won't. (Unpowered) cyclists aren't subject to speed limits. He MIGHT get done for "Furious Pedalling" but not for speeding.
 
Norkie said:
If the police can catch him! Or doesn’t it apply to the police :D :D
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The police may break a number of road rules and laws where it is necessary in the course of their duties.

One of my in-place spies assures me that this doesn't include getting to the chippie fast, for an evening meal break! :naughty:
 
Nod said:
No, he won't. (Unpowered) cyclists aren't subject to speed limits. He MIGHT get done for "Furious Pedalling" but not for speeding.
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Or ‘Not looking at where you are going!’
Looking furiously over your shoulder!
 
Nod said:
No, he won't. (Unpowered) cyclists aren't subject to speed limits. He MIGHT get done for "Furious Pedalling" but not for speeding.
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According to this page: https://www.slatergordon.co.uk/newsroom/can-cyclists-break-the-speed-limit/
  • "Cycling Furiously" is the correct term for the general offence but that's so rare as to be nearly extinct.
  • Local authorities may impose speed limits for cycles such as the 8MPH limit on Hampstead Heath and the 20MPH limit in Richmond Park.
  • Someone being silly can be hit with "careless and inconsiderate riding".
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
One of my in-place spies assures me that this doesn't include getting to the chippie fast, for an evening meal break! :naughty:
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There does seem to be an increase in blue lights and sirens around shift change here.
Or maybe more crimes are committed around that time?
Who knows for sure? :D
 
I am in favour of this in purely residential streets. Urban streets that are essentially access roads should be 40.
 
We've had 20 limit on residential streets in my part of Lancashire for years, now starting to creep on to main roads.
Cyclist should be under the same rules as all other road users, as we know from the Charlie Alliston case cyclist can kill predestinarians.
 
Pound Coin said:
Every person driving at or around 20mph will be an enforcer. Much like 30, 40 and 50 now.

It is a great step forward, somewhat reducing the additional influence that drivers have over others, as a consequence of being motorised.
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Here we go.

"Wanton and furious cycling" - a guide to the road traffic laws that apply to cyclists. | Road Law Barristers

It seems that our roads are fuller than ever before with cyclists who are caught up in the wave of ‘cycling-mania’ that has gripped the country since the Tour de France’s Grand Depart in Yorkshire this July. Much is written on the numerous laws affecting motorists, but what about the laws that...
www.roadlawbarristers.co.uk www.roadlawbarristers.co.uk
 
Just means I will be chucking out more C02s because I will be travelling in 3rd rather than 4th... I agree city or town centres where there are a lot of pedestrians etc, and schools/Ambulance stations/fire stations should be limited. If the road is a main thoroughfare with few hazards then I think the decrease is pointless.

(This is me when visiting my mother in North Wales)....

meanwhile in Richmond on Thames..

I enjoy the 20 mph ride through the Park, although it is difficult to maintain the speed. Not helped when cyclists treat it as their own racetrack, the idiots I encounter when they have left the park - no concept that the new Highway Code rules apply to them as well...
 
it’s mad the issue is that the current 30 limit isn’t enforced, I was tailgated by a van sticking to a 30 limit this morning through a village
 
whiteflyer said:
We've had 20 limit on residential streets in my part of Lancashire for years, now starting to creep on to main roads.
Cyclist should be under the same rules as all other road users, as we know from the Charlie Alliston case cyclist can kill predestinarians.
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As bikes don't have speedometers, they cannot be under the same rules as motorised vehicles, which are required to have speedometers.

As I remember it, Charlie Alliston was riding like a t*** on a modified fixed bike with no brakes. Story here. That was 5 years ago....
 
welshwizard645 said:
Just means I will be chucking out more C02s because I will be travelling in 3rd rather than 4th... I agree city or town centres where there are a lot of pedestrians etc, and schools/Ambulance stations/fire stations should be limited. If the road is a main thoroughfare with few hazards then I think the decrease is pointless.

(This is me when visiting my mother in North Wales)....

meanwhile in Richmond on Thames..

I enjoy the 20 mph ride through the Park, although it is difficult to maintain the speed. Not helped when cyclists treat it as their own racetrack, the idiots I encounter when they have left the park - no concept that the new Highway Code rules apply to them as well...
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I'm sure vehicle manufacturers will respond to these new requirements. Like they have in their gearbox designs to now...
 
Pound Coin said:
I'm sure vehicle manufacturers will respond to these new requirements. Like they have in their gearbox designs to now...
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That wont happen anytime soon and even if it does very few people will be driving those cars for years to come.
 
Pound Coin said:
As bikes don't have speedometers, they cannot be under the same rules as motorised vehicles, which are required to have speedometers.

As I remember it, Charlie Alliston was riding like a t*** on a modified fixed bike with no brakes. Story here. That was 5 years ago....
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And, didnt the victim also step into his path too?
 
cambsno said:
And, didnt the victim also step into his path too?
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Here's the case and the damning words of the judge.

www.theguardian.com

Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian

Alliston jailed over death of Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries in east London collision last year
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The man on an illegal bike was IMO a grade 1 A Hole and deserved prison.

"In mitigation, Mark Wyeth QC told the court that an apparent lack of remorse shown by Alliston was a “coping strategy” derived from the loss of his father, who died of a heart attack in the bathroom of the family home when Alliston was 16."

IMO. Sickening. Should have given him longer time.
 
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woof woof said:
Here's the case and the damning words of the judge.

www.theguardian.com

Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian

Alliston jailed over death of Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries in east London collision last year
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The man on an illegal bike was IMO a grade 1 A Hole and deserved prison.

"In mitigation, Mark Wyeth QC told the court that an apparent lack of remorse shown by Alliston was a “coping strategy” derived from the loss of his father, who died of a heart attack in the bathroom of the family home when Alliston was 16."

IMO. Sickening. Should have given him longer time.
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Well, at last killers on the roads are being given more sensible sentences now. Hopefully gone are the days when you could kill someone with a car and claim "a momentary lapse of concentration" and get a suspended sentence, or community order.

Appreciate that deaths by cyclist are exceptionally rare, and therefore get way more column inches, and loads of whataboutery.
 
woof woof said:
That wont happen anytime soon and even if it does very few people will be driving those cars for years to come.
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Since 20mph areas have been around for way more than 10 years, perhaps the manufacturers should be asked why they haven't changed their designs already.
 
woof woof said:
Here's the case and the damning words of the judge.

www.theguardian.com

Cyclist Charlie Alliston jailed for 18 months over death of pedestrian

Alliston jailed over death of Kim Briggs, who sustained ‘catastrophic’ head injuries in east London collision last year
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The man on an illegal bike was IMO a grade 1 A Hole and deserved prison.

"In mitigation, Mark Wyeth QC told the court that an apparent lack of remorse shown by Alliston was a “coping strategy” derived from the loss of his father, who died of a heart attack in the bathroom of the family home when Alliston was 16."

IMO. Sickening. Should have given him longer time.
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Was not trying to defend him, chances are with that attitude he would have killed/injured someone else but if you look at this from an objective perspective, she did step out in front of him so would have been partly at fault for the incident. Like if I stepped out in front of a drink driver and got hurt, while they should be punished I would also be to blame?
 
Pound Coin said:
Well, at last killers on the roads are being given more sensible sentences now. Hopefully gone are the days when you could kill someone with a car and claim "a momentary lapse of concentration" and get a suspended sentence, or community order.

Appreciate that deaths by cyclist are exceptionally rare, and therefore get way more column inches, and loads of whataboutery.
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All road users should be treated the same and should behave the same. You don't see too many car drivers going through red lights, driving on pavements or through shopping areas in town yet many cyclists believe they can do whatever they want with impunity. This just made me remember when I was crossing a road and a cyclist went through a red light on the wrong side of the road and had the cheek to shout at me because I wasn't on a crossing. It's this staggering lack of awareness coupled with arrogance and aggression that make me wish they could be fined and imprisoned much more often.
 
cambsno said:
Was not trying to defend him, chances are with that attitude he would have killed/injured someone else but if you look at this from an objective perspective, she did step out in front of him so would have been partly at fault for the incident. Like if I stepped out in front of a drink driver and got hurt, while they should be punished I would also be to blame?
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Good. He's a grade one idiot and indefensible and that mitigation offered was IMO just sickening.
 
Pound Coin said:
Since 20mph areas have been around for way more than 10 years, perhaps the manufacturers should be asked why they haven't changed their designs already.
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I'd imagine that if they tailor the car to cruise well at 20mph in 4th there'll be some knock on effect at other speeds. I don't know. Having said that I drive in 4th in 20mph limits all the time in a 13 years old 1.1 Getz with no problem and my 21 year old 1.6 MX5 manages too but I suppose up hill stretches would be an issue.
 
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woof woof said:
All road users should be treated the same and should behave the same. You don't see too many car drivers going through red lights, driving on pavements or through shopping areas in town yet many cyclists believe they can do whatever they want with impunity. This just made me remember when I was crossing a road and a cyclist went through a red light on the wrong side of the road and had the cheek to shout at me because I wasn't on a crossing. It's this staggering lack of awareness coupled with arrogance and aggression that make me wish they could be fined and imprisoned much more often.
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Unfortunately tribalism is a powerful and destructive force.

Here's an interesting read.
 
LeeRatters said:
Some of the roads here that are 20 mph are ridiculous really. Shopping centres, parks, schools yes I agree. But not a blanket 20mph.
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It seems to have been part of a trend, 60 becomes 40, 40 becomes 30 or even straight to 20mph.

As above I'm sure some areas that should be 20 are not whilst some reductions just seem to be arbitrary.
 
Her in Bristol we have had a (virtually) blanket 20mph limits on all residential roads since 2015 - some areas since 2013. Some roads were retained at their previous speed limits.

Whilst I don't drive in the city very often, I don't see many vehicles slowing to 20 when they cross the boundary with South Glos, which is still 30mph.
 
Some years ago I stayed with a pal in Germany, in the area where he lived there was a blanket 20Kph speed limit, which was obeyed as it was a largely family area with a lot of young children.
Just down the road from me the road becomes a 20mph limit where it passes through a built up area by a school, it is largely ignored by the local drivers , despite it being for their families benefit
 
Bristolian said:
Her in Bristol we have had a (virtually) blanket 20mph limits on all residential roads since 2015 - some areas since 2013. Some roads were retained at their previous speed limits.

Whilst I don't drive in the city very often, I don't see many vehicles slowing to 20 when they cross the boundary with South Glos, which is still 30mph.
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Drove in Bristol a few months ago and loved seeing cyclists and cars working well together with the reasonable speed differential.
 
I was about to post a link to the "it's 30 for a reason" advert. But even though it was on prime time a decade or so ago, now it would come with a trigger warning.

You can argue all you like about whether speed causes accidents - but speed at impact is what causes death.

I don't particularly like the apparently random 20mph zones we have now - but a default 20 in built up areas sounds a pretty good idea.
 
Here, it seems to be residential estates (well, some of them - ours is still 30 throughout) and student infested areas (they seem to wander into the road like country chickens after a pint of shandy...) that are 20 limits and it seems to be almost universally ignored. Funnily enough, when it IS enforced, it's often very local residents who get caught.
 
Speed limits generally are ignored, unless there are static cameras, or a history of mobile ones. It is indicative of the sense of entitlement and lack of respect for the law that people have when driving. The argument trotted out is that it is about safety and drivers choose what speed is safe, which has merit as an argument if you narrow the criteria down to really only include the benefit/disbenefit to the individual driver, rather than the other drivers, community, environment etc.

I was on M4 and M25 in the last few weeks and there were very many double flashes from the overhead gantry cameras. I don't know if these cameras are live, but given they are live elsewhere in the network, I assumed that quite a lot of NIPs are being issued from them.

And, yes, I have been on a speed awareness course :D. (The participants‘ general ignorance of speed limits and their indications, stopping distances and simple physics was sobering)
 
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