Spec me a studio light kit

[LongLensPhotography]

My work may soon require a studio flash setup. I wish I could afford Profoto B1 gear now, but in reality I have fairly small budget left to start with (£500 all in would be nice for 2-3 heads and octabox modifiers). So I would want to start with the minimal kit I need and try to upgrade to the top when the works starts rolling in.

The main points are:
* Used big brand vs new cheaper kit?
* Must have a Modelling light
* Enough power for some interior photography work. Portraits should be fine with most studio heads I believe.
* Reliable
* Reasonably well hold value for resale (probably rules out chinese clones)
* Option to add battery pack if the need arises
* Reasonably good colour accuracy / ability to add gels (for interiors) / colour compatible with speedlites
* Probably radio triggers?
* Ability to remotely control power would be nice if I start placing them at odd difficult to reach places

I also have a pack of speedlites so it would be great to mix them together when I need more units.

Apologies if the question is already covered in the forum

 

[HoppyUK]

Not been covered before, not in the last ten minutes anyway

Just some comments really. Is fast flash duration important? If £500 is to cover stands and modifiers, and backgrounds and meter etc, it won't go far, and you'll be looking at entry-level anyway. Nothing wrong with that though, and the law of diminishing returns cuts in quickly with studio flash. Recommend Elinchrom or Lencarta for best performance/value. Suggest quick push-up softboxes unless you can leave them assembled. Brollies are underrated - dead cheap, versatile (white/silver/shoot-through), easy up/down, compact for storage. 200Ws is fine for normal portraits and small groups; for big interiors you'll want more ideally, but if you're not balancing with bright daylight, bumping the ISO one stop effectively doubles the power each time. Studio heads and speedlites play well together, just need to give some thought to synching it all up and remote control etc.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

Not been covered before, not in the last ten minutes anyway

Just some comments really. Is fast flash duration important? If £500 is to cover stands and modifiers, and backgrounds and meter etc, it won't go far, and you'll be looking at entry-level anyway. Nothing wrong with that though, and the law of diminishing returns cuts in quickly with studio flash. Recommend Elinchrom or Lencarta for best performance/value. Suggest quick push-up softboxes unless you can leave them assembled. Brollies are underrated - dead cheap, versatile (white/silver/shoot-through), easy up/down, compact for storage. 200Ws is fine for normal portraits and small groups; for big interiors you'll want more ideally, but if you're not balancing with bright daylight, bumping the ISO one stop effectively doubles the power each time. Studio heads and speedlites play well together, just need to give some thought to synching it all up and remote control etc.

Duration won't be important for the start. I already have a Lastolite white bckg for a start, and I think I'll be OK without a meter to start with (there are ways round it with digital).

On the other hand I could see myself fighting with the sun on a few occasions.

Brollies spill some light everywhere hence I'd prefer various softboxes and perhaps a beauty dish for those rare visitors.

 

[mike weeks]

You could pay £500 for decent triggers.
Modelling lights do not tell the whole picture
Most lights are built in China including some of the bigger brands who claim a different heritage
Nothing in your price range will come with an integrated battery power source
More likely to get remote control with battery powered lights

Mike

 

[HoppyUK]

Duration won't be important for the start. I already have a Lastolite white bckg for a start, and I think I'll be OK without a meter to start with (there are ways round it with digital).

On the other hand I could see myself fighting with the sun on a few occasions.

Brollies spill some light everywhere hence I'd prefer various softboxes and perhaps a beauty dish for those rare visitors.

If it's white backgrounds you're after, that's a minimum of three lights, though speedlites work well in a HiLite, usually at 1/4 power or perhaps less. If you're working with three lights, a meter saves a lot of messing about if you change set-up often - not essential though if you know what you're doing.

Fighting bright sun requires lots of power, 400Ws min to do it properly, preferably more. Outdoor working away from mains power really requires different kit. Expensive.

Shoot-through brollies spill loads of light, but you use that to your benefit. White and silver are quite controllable if set up carefully. Softboxes are better for sure, but not always and loads more money. A modest selection of decent softboxes will eat your budget on their own.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I could perhaps get 2 heads and use speedlites for the rest of the setup.

Are there any mainstream lights that can take battery pack as an optional accessory available separately? I suppose 3x speedlites in a softbox brolly would also work against the sun?

 

[Phil V]

I could perhaps get 2 heads and use speedlites for the rest of the setup.
Are there any mainstream lights that can take battery pack as an optional accessory available separately?...

You can buy an optional battery pack that'll run your mains powered lights, but it's not a cheap option .

... I suppose 3x speedlites in a softbox brolly would also work against the sun?

No - the general guide for a Sunny day is 600Ws (about 6 flashguns, no softbox and fairly long recycle times)

The new Lencarta Safari2 is close to being the best bang for buck, but there are other cheaper 600Ws battery flashes if you're less concerned about safety / build quality / an enforceable guarantee.

 

[HoppyUK]

I could perhaps get 2 heads and use speedlites for the rest of the setup.

Are there any mainstream lights that can take battery pack as an optional accessory available separately? I suppose 3x speedlites in a softbox brolly would also work against the sun?

Working outdoors in daylight is highly variable in terms of power, but you'll rarely have too much of it. Some rules of thumb, 400Ws in an 80-100cm softbox will give you something between f/16-22 at 1m, ISO100. And 100Ws is not a bad estimate of one big speedlite's output.

Now compare that to Sunny-16, add a couple of stops to beat bright sun, add a couple more stops because a 1m working distance is unrealistic outdoors, and suddenly you're into thousands of Ws.

On the other hand, if it's overcast or later in the day, or you can find some shade, ambient brightness drops by several stops. Swap the softbox for a high-intensity 'tulip' reflector (obviously makes the light a lot harder) and you'll get a few stops more. Then go for fill-in flash rather than beating the sun, and you've got a couple of stops more. Put all that together and you can get by with just one hot-shoe gun!

If I were you, I'd get the bare minimum of kit for starters. If you have a HiLite and a couple of speedlites, then just one studio head and a nice octobox will get you going and you'll quickly get a feel for what's possible and what's needed to take things forward in the direction you want to go.

 

[Phil V]

Forgetting the idea of portable, I'd look to buy S/H, for kick about professional use I'd probably be looking at Bowens, you can probably pick up pro quality kit for the same price as a starter kit from the less expensive brands.

 

[cymruchris]

I agree with second hand... You can usually spot a well looked after piece of kit from someone that spent the money but never got around to using them properly....... I picked up a set of Elinchrom BXR 500/250 lights last year that had barely been used, including a skyport radio transmitter for £350 including stands and softboxes... The good prices are out there if you look for them

 

[Garry Edwards]

Second hand can work, as long as you take into account the fact that
1. Technology has improved a lot recently, lights that are only a few years old may be very inconsistent in terms of both colour temperature and flash energy
2. A lot of the older lights only have very limited power adjustment - often just 3 or even 2 stops. Couple this with the fact that older lights often have far too much power for today's digital cameras (if they were designed for use with early digital cameras or film) and that this can result in far too much power.

 

[simonbarker]

As cymruchris says there are some stunning bargains to be had out there but it is rare for those really quality pieces at bargain prices.

With your requirements buying new I'd probably go for the Lencarta SmartFlash 2 400Ws kit, my only reservation being that they're only 200W heads (for still life even with slightly larger grided modifiers I don't often need to go over 250) but they're fairly close to most of your requirements and with the money remaining in your budget it leaves room for a quality modifier or possibly a third and more powerful head.

As to holding their value... it's not going to happen, when you buy new and sell later you'll be recouping in the 50-80% range of the price (doesn't matter what brand we're talking about, Interfit, Lencarta, Bowens, Elinchrom, Profoto or whatever) which is why buying second hand holds so much appeal as you can sell it for the price paid or even make money.

Second hand you've got more options but there's no solution that's going to meet all your requirements under half a grand, focus on what's most useful to you (will you benefit from some larger modifiers? Octaboxes, Strips etc?). As an example I just spent a lot more on softboxes and grids than on 5 practically mint Elinchrom heads.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I'll keep an eye for used newish Elinchroms and Bowens for a little while

I think I'll get some ebay / Bessel modifiers. They should be fine or at least won't explode in the face. I haven't really got a clue if I will need the strip lights, but a large octa and grids will be handy.

 

[Phil V]

You'll need to decide on the mount before you start buying modifiers. Most are fixed at manufacture.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

You'll need to decide on the mount before you start buying modifiers. Most are fixed at manufacture.

Most are Bowens S or Elinchrom mount and there are adapters. I will buy them once i have the flashes

I also hope the modelling lights will also double as a somewhat simple continous lighting system for quick interview filming. ISO 800 and 1600 video is so clean that I am not even concerned about lack of brightness.

 

[JennyGW]

You'll need to decide on the mount before you start buying modifiers. Most are fixed at manufacture.

Not necessarily as adapters can be used. They do add cost, but as it's only one you need per head it's not a big worry.

The Elemental Trinty Nano units come with adapters as standard and can be used with Elinchrom and Bowen's s-Fit - these are the only two standards you really need to think about.

 

[Phil V]

Not necessarily as adapters can be used. They do add cost, but as it's only one you need per head it's not a big worry.

The Elemental Trinty Nano units come with adapters as standard and can be used with Elinchrom and Bowen's s-Fit - these are the only two standards you really need to think about.

That's why I said most.

 

[boyfalldown]

You'll need to decide on the mount before you start buying modifiers. Most are fixed at manufacture.

Most are Bowens S or Elinchrom mount and there are adapters. I will buy them once i have the flashes

Not necessarily as adapters can be used. They do add cost, but as it's only one you need per head it's not a big worry.

I've got to (mostly) agree with Phil, you need to decide before you start buying. Big modifiers (soft boxes, stripboxes,octal etc) will use speed rings that'll be interchangeable. But the adaptors are, for the most part, very Heath Robinson and add weight and cost

 

[Garry Edwards]

Not necessarily as adapters can be used. They do add cost, but as it's only one you need per head it's not a big worry.

The Elemental Trinty Nano units come with adapters as standard and can be used with Elinchrom and Bowen's s-Fit - these are the only two standards you really need to think about.

Only up to a point. Adapters allow softboxes to be interchanged, but because of the physical increase in distance between accessory and flash head, they don't work with more creative light shaping tools.

 

[Phil V]

What Hugh said, whilst it's possible to add adaptors (they alter the shape of the light) or buy modifiers with removable speed rings (which limits the choice of modifiers). It's far easier to choose a mount and stick with it.

For S mount (for instance) heads go from less than £100 up to £500, it's not like choosing a mount would necessarily tie you to one manufacturer (unless you want to) or output or even portable vs studio, mono bloc or generator kit or even portable units.

 

[JennyGW]

Only up to a point. Adapters allow softboxes to be interchanged, but because of the physical increase in distance between accessory and flash head, they don't work with more creative light shaping tools.

Interesting, I was wondering about that. The only problem I could see would be with a beauty dish, you see other problems?

Twas good to meet you are the Photography Show / NEC.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Interesting, I was wondering about that. The only problem I could see would be with a beauty dish, you see other problems?

Twas good to meet you are the Photography Show / NEC.

Beauty dish, fresnel spot, focussing spot, snoot, background reflector, standard reflector, spill kill reflector, wide angle reflector would all be adversely affected.

I met a lot of people at the Photography show - I'm sure it was good to meet you there too

 

[JennyGW]

Beauty dish, fresnel spot, focussing spot, snoot, background reflector, standard reflector, spill kill reflector, wide angle reflector would all be adversely affected.

I met a lot of people at the Photography show - I'm sure it was good to meet you there too

Well if I can manage to remember you ... lol