Sony A77, anybody got one yet

woof woof said:
It depends how you define "as good."

EVF's will only get better so I don't see how anyone can write them off forever and claim that they'll give up photography rather than use one. That seems... silly to me :thinking: Sorry but you sound like you are a member of the Taliban :D Joking BTW :D

You just don't know what the technology will be like in two years time never mind five or ten years time so you surely can't just write it off forever. Even now the relatively old technology of my G1 allows me to see things that I can't see by eye... and you get those lovely graphics like histogram... so it's already "better" in at least some respects.
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Lol that's the first time I've been accused of that :) ! (yes it was an emotional response!)

I know what you're saying though and I've no doubt you're right. It's just not for me as it stands at present.

Still, I'm going to have a good look around the A77, just to see how they have developed onto what is undoubtedly the Market leader in this aspect, and to see if it really can do 12 fps!!

Hoppy - yes again I'm sure you're right and I know we sing from the same hymn sheet! It doesn't seem as "pure" if you get my drift but I'll make my mind up once I've tried it!
 
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HoppyUK said:
But that aside, the viewfinder is just a device to help you frame the image and time the shot.
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That's true of an OVF, but an EVF does a whole lot more. With an EVF you don't even need the overlaid meter scale, nor do you have to trust the camera's WB settings. An EVF gives you a full WYSIWYG view, so even a relatively poor one (I have an a55) already surpasses an OVF in terms of functionality.

Had a quick play with an a77 today. The new EVF is a quantum leap forward from the ugly-but-very-usable a55 finder.

Can't wait for a FF SLT.
 
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odd jim said:
Lol that's the first time I've been accused of that :) ! (yes it was an emotional response!)
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Well, photography and gear are things to get passionate about :D and that's probably why people tend to react for either good or bad to change. But things will always change. Years ago people were up in arms about auto focus, IS, digital photography, sensor cleaning, live view... there are always people who think it's "THE END!" and people who think it's the best thing since sliced bread but after time people usually accept things and then get to the point where the actually quite like the new stuff.
 
I think the A77 is a cracking bit of kit, looking forward to giving one a try.

My main concern is low light, with the loss of light with translucent mirror and having to bump ISO up to compensate. From what I see its not good at high ISO.

I am reserving judgement until I see more from this camera
 
I think dxomark have tested it. Sony had the same problem previously, think it was the A700, as the adobe something or other didn't do a good job with their raws so they appeared noisier until the software was updated.

I'm sure Sony could come out with something that knocked canon/nikon into a cocked hat but many users wouldn't switch just because it wasn't canon/nikon.

I always thought it would be fun to take several identical cameras and change the branding and see how opinions differed if people thought they were canon/nikon/pentax etc
 
srichards said:
I always thought it would be fun to take several identical cameras and change the branding and see how opinions differed if people thought they were canon/nikon/pentax etc
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We could always just look at the final image and as long as it doesn't have Canon (or whatever) stamped in the corner I'm pretty sure we'd struggle to tell what it was taken with.

The final product isn't the whole story though and people care about look, feel, control layout, operation etc.
 
No matter how good the camera is it won't get people to change when they have hundreds/thousands of pounds tied up in lenses

Admittedly some do have a complete clear out and start again, but most just cannot afford to especially in these financially difficult times

Very hard for any manufacturer to break the Canon/Nikon stranglehold and this isn't going to, would take something dramatically better for that and even then would be a struggle
 
A few rumours flying around that Sony have put all Sony A77 UK orders on hold whilst they investigate the current issues.

Very nice of them to treat UK buyers as initial Beta testers isn't it?! :thumbsdown:
 
Not very smart of sony. They're clearly doing what nokia always do ie release a half finished product with god awful buggy software then expect users to tell them everything that is wrong with it.

All sony had to do was to lend me one. I'd have found those problems within a very short time :)

I'm amazed they don't test the camera with various makes of lenses that people are likely to own. If the A77 isn't compatible with older non sony lenses then it's a dead duck.

I suspect it might just be sigmas that cause it as the original SLTs would make sigmas throw a wobbly. Newer ones are supposedly immune but it wouldn't surprise me if sony have accidentally on purpose put the kybosh on them again.
 
There are quite a few more issues which seem to be arising now (most of the initial bodies showing symptoms were sold in Asia not the uk);

Top LCD failing
Persistent system crashing
AF points when attached to some Sony lenses not reacting (on top of the 3rd party lens issues).
Rear screen issues.
EVF blacking out requiring battery out reset.

No doubt a good firmware update will hopefully solve this, though I would always have the third party lens issue in the back of my mind.

Hmmm...
 
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odd jim said:
There are quite a few more issues which seem to be arising now (most of the initial bodies showing symptoms were sold in Asia not the uk);

Top LCD failing
Persistent system crashing
AF points when attached to some Sony lenses not reacting (on top of the 3rd party lens issues).
Rear screen issues.
EVF blacking out requiring battery out reset.

No doubt a good firmware update will hopefully solve this, though I would always have the third party lens issue in the back of my mind.

Hmmm...
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The official line from Sony is that there are no problems with UK stock that they're currently aware of, and internet rumours remain just that as far as they're concerned.

They are sending out limited first stocks now, and plan to continue as new shipments arrive.
 
whiteflyer said:
And how many said digital will never overtake film :lol::lol:
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I didnt. I fully embraced digital as soon as it came along.

And what's that got to do with EVFs?

And the a77s EVF, surprise surprise, isn't as good as a standard ovf.
 
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I bought one and used it for four days before it died with the well documented firmware fault. There's a ctl/alt/del type reset that has surfaced since but I took the camera back before this was known about. Sony really needs a kick up the ar*e for the way they handled this.
Nevertheless, cameras with updated firmware 1.03 are beginning to surface now and I am eagerly waiting for supplies to reach the UK so I can get another.

The EVF is in some ways better than an OVF, having gain applied when in low lit areas which makes framing possible where an OVF might struggle. There is an automatic horizon option plus histogram and lots of fn options that can be changed while framing. Indoors I'd say you can barely tell the difference between it and an OVF. Outdoors in bright sunlight is where it falls down a little, being substantially less bright than a good quality pentaprism. But it is very sharp, good enough to determine an AF lock and has the added advantage of focus verification with a magnified part of the image. The latter is something no OVF can do.
The 24MP sensor is also very sharp, but as suggested it's noisy at higher iso, perhaps losing a stop over its rivals, The SLT mirror with its 1/3 stop loss doesn't help here. The 16MP sensor in the A55/580/Nex5n is much better in this regard.
The rear screen is one of the best I've seen, very sharp with great articulating design.
AF speed and accuracy are up there with the best.
AF micro adjust appears to recognise independent lenses as well as Sony/Minolta and enables you to obtain the last bit of sharpness from your lenses.
The shutter is well damped and quiet, especially with the electronic first shutter option activated.
You can shoot hidef movies with continuous AF, stabilised with all your old lenses.
Panorama mode is neat where you shoot continuously while panning then the camera stitches the image together seamlessly.
Unlike the A700 it no longer comes with the wireless remote control - it's an optional extra. It works with the A700 one though.

It ain't perfect but it's still a damned good photographic tool.
 
odd jim said:
And the a77s EVF, surprise surprise, isn't as good as a standard ovf.
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Firstly let me state that I don't own an A77, and have not tried one, however the above does come over as a rather sweeping generalisation.

From all the reviews and user comments I have read the A77 EVF is considered by most who have tried it to be

1) A significant step up from previous EVF's
2) Superior to pentamirror OVF's
3) Comparible (with some pros' & cons) to the 'intermediate' level pentaprism OVF's
4) Not as good as the top end Full Frame OVF's.

Of course, it depends on what you define as a 'standard' OVF, but it certainly suggests such EVF's will take over at the entry level (as volume brings cost down, an electronic component will win over a precision aligned optical one at the budget end), and over time the EVF quality will improve further.

Will they get good enough to replace the OVF in a FF camera?

I don't know, but once they take hold at the entry level, then over time more and more photographers will learn their trade using them, and it may get to the point where the 'extras' and EVF offers become 'must have' for many, and the OVF gets relegated to a smaller and smaller segment of the market.
 
odd jim said:
I didnt. I fully embraced digital as soon as it came along.

And what's that got to do with EVFs?

And the a77s EVF, surprise surprise, isn't as good as a standard ovf.
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Show me a standard OVF that can show me what my exposure and WB settings will look like. An OVF is only better than an EVF if you consider it from the perspective of an OVF's "use case". The use case for an EVF covers much more than just composing and focussing. It includes setting the exposure and WB, as well as applying any in-camera adjustments to contrast, colour, or any special effects. No OVF can show you what those settings actually do to the image you're about to take. The best they can do is tell you what settings you've made. You have to know how those settings will affect the image and hope you've got it right.

And let's not get started on video use... :)
 
a very interesting thread :thumbs:

I watched a video and was quite smitten with it, but as alaways use in the real world is what counts :thumbs:

I have seen the pano mode in action on one of sony's comapcts and was well impressed

Panning my achilles heel :'( the video if I remember right meant you could track all the way (no shutter) so how good is it at tracking
 
I had a play with one at the weekend and the EVF is very good, streets a head of ones I've seen in the past.

There is still a slight problem when doing very fast panning at it just can't quite keep up, but as the technology and refresh rates increase, I've no doubt EVF is going to become more popular in the future.

Are Canon hedging their bets with the 7Ds Intelligent Viewfinder LCD overlay to provide various displays of focusing points and zones, on-demand grid lines and a spot metering circle, which at the moment is the best of both worlds.
 
Having enjoyed my a55 the last year (my first into the SLT/DSLR scene) I think I'll be bagging it up for sale and moving on to the a77.

Any chance of keeping this thread on track putting aside OVF/EVF banter?

JOD.
 
A77 is getting all the attention, and so it should, but the a65 has got pretty much the same spec in a ploycarbonate body and is a lot cheaper.
 
Sony UK have stocks again following a pause for a few weeks. I thought that the reason for the pause was to install 1.03 firmware and rectify a problem where a system crash all but kills the camera. But I got one today, purchased mail order through the Sony franchise store at Cribbs Causeway, Bristol (£900 for body only). I was surprised to see that it still had version 1.02 which I have now replaced with 1.03. Despite this, after playing with it for a couple of hours with various lenses, I twice encountered firmware crashes. These were not catastrophic however, and were rectified by simply removing and replacing the battery. The battery was a genuine Sony model. So it's still got bugs and there will likely be another release in the relatively near future.
 
The cheaper and lighter A65 is very tempting too. Disappointed that there are still bugs in the firmware. I've never had a camera crash and need turning off and on again.
 
Never had a Sony do it before either. This camera's firmware must be pretty complicated.
 
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