Sony A57 owners re wireless flash...

Bobsp

Bobsp

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My father in law has a Sony A57, and a HVL F43AM flash. He has got the flash gun working wirelessly, but can't seem to get it working without the body flash.

He said he read there is an issue with this. He has emailed Sony but they seem to missing the point. Do any other A57 owners have this issue?

Thanks
 
the pop-up flash is how the body communicates with/triggers the off camera flash.
If he has an issue with the pop-up adding a slight amount of light to thescene then he can tape a bit of exposed film over the pop-up - the flash will still see the signal.
 
Not being much of a flash user, apparently he can set the body slash to fire, then triggering the slave, but the body flash does not get used for the shot, I presume by adjusting it so it fires before if you get what I mean. I will get him to test it and see where the shadows fall.
 
Bobsp said:
Not being much of a flash user, apparently he can set the body slash to fire, then triggering the slave, but the body flash does not get used for the shot, I presume by adjusting it so it fires before if you get what I mean. I will get him to test it and see where the shadows fall.
Click to expand...

The popup shouldn't contribute noticeably to the exposure, but it can cause a catchlight for close portraits. The exposed negative trick works a treat, though.
 
Well he has done some tests. He can't get a picture without the body flash firing. Apparently (I am not a Sony user so taking what he has said) it is an issue with the A57. Older models didn't have this issue. He has emailed Sony about thus who just keep referring him to the same page in the manual....
 
Bobsp said:
Well he has done some tests. He can't get a picture without the body flash firing. Apparently (I am not a Sony user so taking what he has said) it is an issue with the A57. Older models didn't have this issue. He has emailed Sony about thus who just keep referring him to the same page in the manual....
Click to expand...

No it's not an issue, its the way it works. The popup fires to trigger the remote. It's an optical trigger. All a-mount cams with pop-ups work that way.

When the popup fires it first sends the information to set the remote flash power. Then it sends the command to fire, in sync with the shutter.

The majority of the body flash should be over by the time the main (off-cam) flash fires. Hence it shouldn't contribute to the scene. As I said, it shouldn't, but it can in certain circumstances (eg at high ISO, with slow SS, or with a highly reflective subject).
 
Hmm, well he has tried it on all sorts of settings and is always part of the picture. I have a Canon 7D and don't have this issue with my Speed lite. Yes it comes on but is not part of the picture. We have tested these taking a picture into a window at night. From the Canon, no body reflection. From the Sony there is a reflection from the body flash every time. He is looking into an alternative way, maybe a remote for the flash.
 
Bobsp said:
Hmm, well he has tried it on all sorts of settings and is always part of the picture. I have a Canon 7D and don't have this issue with my Speed lite. Yes it comes on but is not part of the picture. We have tested these taking a picture into a window at night. From the Canon, no body reflection. From the Sony there is a reflection from the body flash every time. He is looking into an alternative way, maybe a remote for the flash.
Click to expand...

With the Sony system, he'll get a reflection if shooting at a window/mirror. Using HSS should minimise it, as will the exposed film over the popup, but it will still be there.

In most normal use, it won't show. I use it a lot for location portraits and the biggest problem I've encountered is a tiny catchlight on tight headshots. If I want to make it visible, though, I can by upping the ISO and dropping the SS to the point where the remote flash is firing at minimum. If I do that, the popup provides a gentle fill, which can be useful in some circumstances.

The alternative is a radio trigger. There are manual and TTL options that range from dirt cheap to bloody expensive.

There's an "Alpha Strobist" group on Flickr that's a good source of info.
 
With the Minolta wireless flash system (which the Sony one is an evolution of), you could get wireless ratio flash where you could tell the control flash (the built in one in this case) to provide 1/3rd of the exposure for ratio fill flash. To do it though you had to hold down a specific button (it varied from camera to camera) when taking the picture.

The Sony system can provide ratio flash in more ways that the old 2:1 ratio of the Minolta system but from reading the flash instructions (which are a little bit unclear on the wireless flash section) you can program the ratio you want on the controller (i.e the camera) to happen automatically rather than having to hold a button like with the older system, as well as on the off-camera flash - has you father in law by any chance programmed that into the camera on the wireless flash settings menu as that would explain the built in flash being visible or if it is prorgammed on the flash it may conversely do the same thing.
How close is he to what he is taking the picture of as well because when you are too close the very slight amount of light from the built in flash can be visible?
 
Thanks for your replies, I can't answer the questions this evening. I will catch up with him and go through so e of the ideas.

Thanks guys.
 
s162216 said:
With the Minolta wireless flash system (which the Sony one is an evolution of), you could get wireless ratio flash where you could tell the control flash (the built in one in this case) to provide 1/3rd of the exposure for ratio fill flash. To do it though you had to hold down a specific button (it varied from camera to camera) when taking the picture.

The Sony system can provide ratio flash in more ways that the old 2:1 ratio of the Minolta system but from reading the flash instructions (which are a little bit unclear on the wireless flash section) you can program the ratio you want on the controller (i.e the camera) to happen automatically rather than having to hold a button like with the older system, as well as on the off-camera flash - has you father in law by any chance programmed that into the camera on the wireless flash settings menu as that would explain the built in flash being visible or if it is prorgammed on the flash it may conversely do the same thing.
How close is he to what he is taking the picture of as well because when you are too close the very slight amount of light from the built in flash can be visible?
Click to expand...

I'm afraid the above is mostly incorrect. You can only control ratios when using a 60, 58 or 43 flashguns as a controller, and only on the a700/850/900/77/99. Lower level cameras can only use the popup as a controller and do not have ratio control.
 
Johnd2000 said:
I'm afraid the above is mostly incorrect. You can only control ratios when using a 60, 58 or 43 flashguns as a controller, and only on the a700/850/900/77/99. Lower level cameras can only use the popup as a controller and do not have ratio control.
Click to expand...

I am not a Sony shooter and I do not own one; however I do use several Konica Minolta cameras and the wireless system is exceedingly similar so it was just a suggestion that the ratio might be the reason seeing as it used to be on all the KM cameras no matter how low level. The manual for the flashgun that the OP is using does support wireless flash and ratio but does not list the actual cameras in which you can use ratio so I just suggested it.
 
That makes sense as its what he is experiencing.....
 
s162216 said:
I am not a Sony shooter and I do not own one; however I do use several Konica Minolta cameras and the wireless system is exceedingly similar so it was just a suggestion that the ratio might be the reason seeing as it used to be on all the KM cameras no matter how low level. The manual for the flashgun that the OP is using does support wireless flash and ratio but does not list the actual cameras in which you can use ratio so I just suggested it.
Click to expand...

It's not an unreasonable suggestion. Sony manuals are generally rubbish, but are notably awful when it comes to flash. :)

The 43 does support ratio control on the higher end bodies, but it needs to be used as the controller (on cam or on a TTL cable/shoe). The settings are made on the flash itself, rather than in the camera menu,

On the a57, you have no direct control of the popup power, other than the usual flash compensation. Actually, even that shouldn't affect the popup power as its in "controller mode" and should presumably be at a fixed power (enough to reach a reasonable distance in a range of ambient conditions).

The key to keeping the impact of the popup at a minimum is setting up so that the remote flash is firing at a decent power level. Wide apertures, coupled with high ISO, can mean that the remote is firing at or near its minimum power. Hence the tiny contribution from the popup is proportionally greater and starts to be visible. Stop down a bit and shoot at ISO 100-200 and the remote flash needs to work harder. The popup command flash stays the same, so the net effect is it forms a smaller part of the total light...and becomes less visible.

Does that make sense? It's late, and I have had a few! :-/
 
Johnd2000 said:
It's not an unreasonable suggestion. Sony manuals are generally rubbish, but are notably awful when it comes to flash. :)

The 43 does support ratio control on the higher end bodies, but it needs to be used as the controller (on cam or on a TTL cable/shoe). The settings are made on the flash itself, rather than in the camera menu,

On the a57, you have no direct control of the popup power, other than the usual flash compensation. Actually, even that shouldn't affect the popup power as its in "controller mode" and should presumably be at a fixed power (enough to reach a reasonable distance in a range of ambient conditions).

The key to keeping the impact of the popup at a minimum is setting up so that the remote flash is firing at a decent power level. Wide apertures, coupled with high ISO, can mean that the remote is firing at or near its minimum power. Hence the tiny contribution from the popup is proportionally greater and starts to be visible. Stop down a bit and shoot at ISO 100-200 and the remote flash needs to work harder. The popup command flash stays the same, so the net effect is it forms a smaller part of the total light...and becomes less visible.

Does that make sense? It's late, and I have had a few! :-/
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same as how it works with my Minolta's regarding the popup flash controller etc just a bit more updated, with mine you can get with the standard configuration 2:1 ratio by holding down the flash button on the camera or using a higher end flash and programming it to do 2:1 automatically when using it as a controller (although I am somewhat annoyed that my newly acquired 5400HS cannot be used as a controller on my Dynax 5 or 505si Super - only the slightly higher end bodies like the 7 can use a flash other than the popup as the controller) along with another remote flash. It was actually the first real wireless flash system when it came out in the early 90's, its just such a shame that Minolta never really promoted its benefits like Canon did when they brought out their own system about 4 years later and got rave reviews for it as a lot of people didn't even know about the Minolta system.
 
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Just in addition to using exposed film to cover the body flash. If you have a old tv remote or any similar remote you will find a small piece of red plastic at the front of the remote. Use this over you body flash. This does the trick too
 
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