Something bugging me.

daza

daza

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I think its time to share.

Over the past few months I've started to notice a trend in threads that are popping up, with people asking how best to spend there hard earned money on new cameras and lenses. Now this is fine ................... if you currently have a 1993 point and shoot.

What bugs me is people with cameras that are barely two years old asking for upgrade advice for heavens sake you will not notice a day and night difference between a canon 50D and a 7D. People asking about L lenses and super dooper nikons that just shoot at the weekends or in the odd day.

I understand there's a need to have the latest equipment and its called GAS (gear acquisition syndrome)

I myself still have my trusty canon 40D I've had it two years and I'm still learning with it I get some stunning photos by my reckoning and doubt an upgrade to a 60D would make much of a difference, I've also had this chat with my tutor and classmates and we came to the conclusion that its not the camera that makes the photo its the person behind it there's a few photographers out there that shoot with a simple point and shoot and put most peoples efforts on this forums including mine to shame.


Now I know Ill get invariably flammed and shot down for this post but people save your money, put it in an ISA and in the mean time learn how to take photos with what you've got go for a walk with a 1gb card think about the shots your taking the composition, the light hell even the time of day.



Now this isn't aimed at anyone and I don't wish to harm anyone's feelings, but even the best equipment is ruined by someone who doesn't know how to use it and at this rate we'll be seeing teenagers running around with bloody hasselblads and red video cameras.


Creative criticism and pointless I need X because arguments allowed. :thumbs:
 
daza said:
Now I know Ill get invariably flammed and shot down for this post but people save your money, put it in an ISA and in the mean time learn how to take photos with what you've got go for a walk with a 1gb card think about the shots your taking the composition, the light hell even the time of day.



:thumbs:
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Have you seen the interest rates on these lately (or rather lack of interest)
Better off hiding your money under the floor. :D
 
Simple question... Whats wrong wiht people upgrading there cameras..They can obviously afford to.. probably work hard to be able to afford one of there few pleasures in life..

They do it wiht cars and other stuff so why do you think its not right with cameras?
 
As the way I see it people are just burning money and not learning an awful lot, the latest gear wont make them better. I understand they work hard and I do too yet we don't see people upgrading there car every year especially when they have a family.
 
I posted one last weekend. Thanks to some very helpful comments it helped me make a decision that was important given I was spending some serious cash. With the combinations I was considering some had used lenses that would have been next to impossible to test in a shop as they no longer make them. First-hand experience is way more valuable that a salesperson in a shop.

As long as people aren't asking stupid questions I say ask away people.
 
daza said:
As the way I see it people are just burning money and not learning an awful lot, the latest gear wont make them better. I understand they work hard and I do too yet we don't see people upgrading there car every year especially when they have a family.
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So basically you have inverse kit snobbery - fine, just don't inflict it on other people.

Btw, just because you can't see the difference between a 50D and a 7D, it doesn't mean that there isn't one!
 
Hang fire there buddy, I'm not inflicting anything on other people I thought about opening this up to a much wider discussion audience than myself and college friends I'm sorry if I didn't think adults can have a mature discussion without it descending into an all out argument.

Now I didn't say there wasn't a difference I said you wouldn't notice a day/night difference like some people expect.
 
daza said:
As the way I see it people are just burning money and not learning an awful lot, the latest gear wont make them better. I understand they work hard and I do too yet we don't see people upgrading there car every year especially when they have a family.
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Very true... BUT...

A few years ago, after having my Nik F65 and F80, I took the plunge and went with a D70... a good enough camera at the time, and I still have it. (And to be honest, it's probably still good enough for what I want at the moment...)

But life kinda got in the way, and I didn't pick it up for a while. Then I got the bug back in the summer, found myself in a position to upgrade to a D7k. And why not? I didn't NEED to, but I had the disposable income, so why the hell not?

So, instead of having something which maybe would have been sat in the corner collecting dust, I have a new camera, some new pin sharp glass and a renewed interest in photography. And the best of it is, the last couple of times I've wanted to take it out, the kids have wanted to come along and join in too, which is a very real bonus.

So regardless of whether I've learned anything or not, or whether I'm a better photographer as a result, there have been other very real benefits... Everyone wins...
 
Nothing worse than somebody without a clue wanting to throw money away in the hope that a better camera will help them improve.

Just to throw a spanner in the works I asked an upgrade question tonight

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=363657but


I'd like to think that I was asking sensible questions about the limits of my gear
 
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See sensible posts like that are awesome they show you know your cameras week points and have learnt as much as you can from it instead of just coming out with "I want a higher ISO" or my favourite that someone at college came out with "I want more mega pixels so he went and got a D7000 even though he had a D300S ...................... and he still leaves it all in auto.
 
daza said:
See sensible posts like that are awesome they show you know your cameras week points and have learnt as much as you can from it instead of just coming out with "I want a higher ISO" or my favourite that someone at college came out with "I want more mega pixels so he went and got a D7000 even though he had a D300S ...................... and he still leaves it all in auto.
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Is that a slap on my back ?

God I feel limited (knowing gear) but feel so guilty trying to justify it.
 
daza said:
Hang fire there buddy, I'm not inflicting anything on other people I thought about opening this up to a much wider discussion audience than myself and college friends I'm sorry if I didn't think adults can have a mature discussion without it descending into an all out argument.

Now I didn't say there wasn't a difference I said you wouldn't notice a day/night difference like some people expect.
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In which case you really couldn't have picked a much worse example to illustrate your point between two cameras released on a roughly similar time scale, unless you went for a 500D v 7D (sticking with Canon and the same period).

There's nothing wrong with upgrading and I'm all for it. It funds the manufacturers' R&D after all.
 
I think any of the reasons are valid... If people just want a newer camera, then surely that's just as valid a reason as if the old model doesn't cut the mustard for them any more, or if they want to learn new skills... Who's to say what's valid and what isn't? We're all different, and our choices are probably all driven by different motives...
 
Im not bashing the upgrading, what Im trying to discuss is peoples habbits to nilly willy upgrading without learning how to use there camera. Like how a person who wants to get into photography takes out a loan and grabs a 7D or 5D then leaving it on auto.
 
Except that isn't what you said in your first three posts.
 
daza said:
Im not bashing the upgrading, what Im trying to discuss is peoples habbits to nilly willy upgrading without learning how to use there camera. Like how a person who wants to get into photography takes out a loan and grabs a 7D or 5D then leaving it on auto.
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But if they just want to take better quality photos the same way, then why not? It's their choice, their money... My own personal preference is to learn not only HOW to achieve decent exposures, but also WHY those exposures might be considered decent in the first place. I like to learn new things, which might not be everyone's 'thing'...

FWIW, I tend to shoot fully manual (other than single point AF) with spot metering. On occasion, I might use matrix metering. But regardless of the settings, I can do the same thing on my D70 AND my D7k. I can guarantee which image will look better, straight out of the camera, though... Wouldn't that be reason enough, regardless of the other benefits that I've already mentioned?
 
daza said:
there's a few photographers out there that shoot with a simple point and shoot and put most peoples efforts on this forums including mine to shame.
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You have obviously joined the wrong forum then :D
 
There are valid arguments on both sides of this coin, as with many other things in life...

If people want to splash out good money on gear and are able to do so, let them!

I do have a problem with people who buy really nice gear and have no clue how to use it though but they think that owning good gear makes them photographers, let alone good ones...

But even so, as long as they don't owe me money I suppose it is still their good right to spend their hard-earned currencies in any way they please.

We may secretly mock them, of course:D
 
antonroland said:
I do have a problem with people who buy really nice gear and have no clue how to use it though but they think that owning good gear makes them photographers, let alone good ones...
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Why shouldn't a poor photographer own good gear?
Surely if you are serious about anything, get the best you can afford.
 
daza said:
As the way I see it people are just burning money and not learning an awful lot, the latest gear wont make them better. I understand they work hard and I do too yet we don't see people upgrading there car every year especially when they have a family.
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I worked with a bloke who replaced his car every nine months (brand new not 2nd hand), he would pick up his new car and come away armed with brochures ready to choose his next car. One car he bought only lasted 6 months before he traded it in as it was a nightmare and he couldn't be bothered with the hassle.
I'm not a DSLR owner, but I have 3 Panasonic Bridge cameras, each is an upgrade of the previous model and th eonly reason I've stopped upgrading is because my interest has reduced to a certain extent and I have other hobbies I would now rather spend the money on.
But if people do have the money or feel they can afford to borrow the money, I see no problem with them upgrading on anything they are into.
 
antonroland said:
I do have a problem with people who buy really nice gear and have no clue how to use it though but they think that owning good gear makes them photographers, let alone good ones...
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Or is that just your perception of what they believe. If you can afford something but don't want to buy something and perhaps upgrade later, then buying what you want first off makes sense.
Just because somones ability in something is less than someone elses it doesn't mean they can't buy or should own something that is better than someone else.
There are similar complaints to this on a motorsport forum. People disliking people, because they are able to buy a seat in a top teams car yet under perform, whilst others (past champions) are unable to raise the funds required.
 
Even if it is only my perception, to me a camera is a tool in the hand of an artist, artisan, creative individual or however you want to see it.

If I see someone with a state-of -the-art CNC metal lathe and they use this to churn out the most basic items with minimal understanding and even less creativity, does that mean they shouldn't own it?

Maybe not.

Does this mean I may not (even secretly) think that they are silly sods with too much money? Maybe...and maybe not.

Fact is, anyone is able to own and use legally whatever they please and can afford (again, legally...;)) BUT this does not mean I should respect that person as a practitioner of that specific activity simply because they own top-notch gear...

Again, possibly my perception but I prefer to see people having at least some knowledge of the tools they use rather than only wanting to be respected simply for owning the tools.

I also appreciate that some will buy top-notch gear simply for the sake of owning it and good for them if they can do so...

After all, even if I could afford a Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird I would possibly not even be able to start it up and taxi the damn thing to the holding point, never mind flying AND landing it successfully.

Does that mean I may not buy one and park it in my back garden?

Will have to see what the local authorities have to say about that...
 
I'm not being big headed, I easily have enough money to go order a 1dx, the wife said she didnt mind if I bought one either, so absolutely no reason not to, however, I'm still learning how to use my 1Dmk2 to its full potential, so my money will sit in the bank/floorboards until I feel the current camer (and its stablemate 5Dc) dont do what I want them to, I think it will be a long time coming.
Good post.

Matt
 
antonroland said:
BUT this does not mean I should respect that person as a practitioner of that specific activity simply because they own top-notch gear...
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But are they asking for your respect? Or is it again just your perception that you think they are seeking it. Yes there may well be such people, but that is not to say that is all of them. I'm indifferent, I couldn't give a toss what others have, whether they know how to use it properly or not.
 
Hard to judge - in 4 1/2 years I have gone from D40 + kit, to D90 + kit + 50mm to oa D300 + basic lenses (Tamron) to a D300 with ligts + Nikon pro glass.

In that time my pics have improved, now much of that is experience and just getting better, but I think that there have been times (like when I got my 50mm, or 24-70) that the images looked better 'overnight', so kit does help a lot.
 
this is something you'll come across with every hobby/sports/pastime on planet earth. Golf is another one... a bloke i play with has to have the latest driver when it comes out, he'll think nothing of dropping £400 on a club even though it'll drop to £200 within a few months of release. He still plays off 18 and still doesn't improve his game. But he enjoys it.

At least with photography gear the residuals are pretty good. Each to their own.
 
having new gear gives you enthusiasm to practice with it more. New stuff just breathes life into a hobby. Its not always the technical parts to the new equipment that makes the photographers work improve - actually having new stuff can make you want to do more photography and inadvertently make you improve.

thats what happened to me
 
I think you have to realise that some people like kit and some like to take photographs, its two different hobbies under the same name. Now I like new kit as much as the next man but only buy when I hit a wall with what I have. 40D to 7D because of higher ISO performance, better AF (leagues better) and higher MP for cropping. all of this for wildlife photography. The hobby depends on having a camera and frustration sets in if you can't do what you want. Though I agree there are probably a lot of people here who have FF bodies and pro grade lenses that they just don't need and maybe wouldn't be able to tell the difference from! ;)
 
MatBin said:
I'm not being big headed, I easily have enough money to go order a 1dx, the wife said she didnt mind if I bought one either, so absolutely no reason not to, however, I'm still learning how to use my 1Dmk2 to its full potential, so my money will sit in the bank/floorboards until I feel the current camer (and its stablemate 5Dc) dont do what I want them to, I think it will be a long time coming.
Good post.

Matt
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I think this neatly sums up the gist and merits of the thread...common sense talking!
 
nilagin said:
But are they asking for your respect? Or is it again just your perception that you think they are seeking it. Yes there may well be such people, but that is not to say that is all of them. I'm indifferent, I couldn't give a toss what others have, whether they know how to use it properly or not.
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Very valid point again m8, I think I may be using this thread as a mini-rant at several of my colleagues who don't even understand the difference between AF and FF...YET I have to train them to work a camera...

Hell, some of them shouldn't even own a cellphone with an onboard camera but they seem to take offense when I ever so subtly point out their ignorance to the most basic of photographic concepts
 
I like it and say keep upgrading .. means I get better stuff at reduced prices as they tend to sell it on :D
 
Here we go again with this old chestnut, I wonder how many similar threads we have had over the same issue , must be in double figures by now!!

Why should it bug you !, or anyone else for that matter !!!

Like Stuart pointed out interest rates are poor lately, so if you have the spare cash what good is it doing in some greedy banks accounts, it may as well be used to gain some enjoyment out of life and if that means upgrading to the latest gear with bells and whistles they may never use so what!!

There is a thread on here inviting members to post a pic of their "posh watch" in which some members have spent thousands on one, crazy some might think as they did not need to spend thousands on something just to tell the time but it is their money and if it makes them feel good either wearing a Rolex just to tell the time or upgrading from a 20D or a 5DMk1 to a 5Dmk2 just to take snaps in the green box setting then why not!!
 
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all seems a bit condescending to say people will get nothign out of a newer camera and should learn to use what they have..
 
I agree with the OP

I upgrade when

- I have hit a brick wall with a need, and another body/lens does the job better, and the cost of the upgrade justifies itself
- I have hit a pre-determined shutter count
- I have a job that requires something I don't have the gear for, and it is the correct business decision to do so

Photography (great photography) is to do with the person using the camera, not the camera itself
 
Richard King said:
Photography (great photography) is to do with the person using the camera, not the camera itself
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tell that to the amazing photographer who needs to take a photo of something in low light with no flash on a canon 450d with a kit lens that only goes down to f/3.5

a great photographer can only do so much with his equipment, it becomes the limiting factor at some point.
 
KIPAX said:
all seems a bit condescending to say people will get nothign out of a newer camera and should learn to use what they have..
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Possibly, but possibly true...if anything it would be erring on the side of caution?

Again I say, to those who can afford it, go BIG...but the flipside is a greater danger IMHO, thinking that the next greater camera or any piece of gear will make one a greater photographer...
 
Richard King said:
I agree with the OP

I upgrade when

- I have hit a brick wall with a need, and another body/lens does the job better, and the cost of the upgrade justifies itself
- I have hit a pre-determined shutter count
- I have a job that requires something I don't have the gear for, and it is the correct business decision to do so

Photography (great photography) is to do with the person using the camera, not the camera itself
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Exactly!
 
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