Someone's Nicked My Pic

Well I'm sorry to hear about your image being used - it's certainly annoying!

Also, about getting images from a site with no right click - I will say that the source is another way to bypass that very easily (if you know html).

Image theft does put me off a little but I upload small low res images to 'help' in a way, although that still doesn't prevent anything at all :thumbsdown:

Although if you do find an image that is yours and you can prove it is yours, then you've pretty much got the situation covered and it could work to your benefit - money, free advertising or removal of the image from the site.
 
Well, things have moved on a bit since I last posted.

I originally left a message on the Flickr page which had my image on. I left it a few days, and got no reply, so I found an email address for the companies Manchester office and sent this email.

Hello Mr ......, it has come to my attention that you are using one of my pictures of the Liverpool 800th Anniversary fireworks display your company staged both on Flickr, and on your own commercial website. Whilst you have credited the picture on Flickr to me, the same picture is used on your company website in the slideshow presentation without any credit given.

The image was taken from www.talkphotography.co.uk. I am writing to ask what explanation you have for taking such action?

I look forward to your reply
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That received no reply, so I sent this email to all the addresses on their website.

Fantastic Fireworks, I recently found that you have been using one of my images of the Liverpool 800th Anniversary fireworks display on Flickr without my permission. On looking at your website, I saw that you were also using the same image there. I left a comment, regarding the issue on Flickr which has so far received no reply. I also sent an email to Mr ...... in your Manchester office on the 24th June, which has again returned no reply.

I'm now sending this to all the contact addresses on your website to see what explanation you have for using my image, and what you plan to do about it?
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This email prompted quite a quick reply from the company, which was as follows.

Thanks for getting in touch. It's always good to hear from anyone with an interest in fireworks. We value everyone who contributes to the greater enjoyment of the art and we all admired the photos you took of our Liverpool 800 display. I suppose we could also say that without the display there wouldn't have been any photos! As you can see, all the photos we have used have been credited in a way which is widely accepted in the industry. Many are my own, others have come from professional photographers we have hired and others are sent in or posted by keen amateurs. In no case do we profit from the photos other than showing the world at large that our displays produce terrific photos. I'm sorry if you feel we have taken advantage of your skills and expertise in this field. It's a beautiful shot and it was sent to us by someone who spotted it on a photographic community web site. In fact we used a couple of others from the same site, who we also credited. As the photos were already in the public domain we assumed they could be reproduced as long as they were credited. I'm sure we would have contacted you if we'd had an email address but we only had your nom de plume. Maybe you would reconsider this in the context of bringing your work to a much wider audience and the recognition and respect this would gain for your work. If there are any further big events in the Liverpool area we would like to let you know through our Facebook group which you might like to join. There you will see many more photos, blogs and posts of everyone involved in the Fantastic Fireworks community. I would be delighted to invite you as a member. What do you think?

Kind regards
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I replied with this,

Thanks for replying

As you seem to have done many events in Liverpool I probably have pictures from your other events. I do have a keen interest in taking pictures of fireworks displays, and have taken many pictures from many different events, forgive me if I hesitate to show you my gallery.

I acknowledge that you have credited my image on the Flickr site, and without that I would have been none the wiser about you using it. However, you are a commercial company, using the image for advertising purposes, and the image is not credited on your company site.

You say you pay photographers to take pictures, so you know that pictures have value. To say that because the image was on a public site you assume it is free to copy and use how you see fit is at the very least naive, and at the most well…. Ask one of those professional photographers you use if you can just take any image off their website and use it without permission. They may have something to say about that I'm sure.

As for bringing my work to a larger audience, I put my picture on the internet to see if people liked it or not, and in the forum I posted the people can reply with comments either good or bad. What is the point of people seeing your picture if, a) you don't know about? b) you don't get any feedback? or c) you don't benefit financially?

I assume you know which site the image was taken from, and at that site you could/can make contact with me. So to say that you didn't have an email address is not an excuse not to seek permission. Had you got in touch about using the image, I would have been very flattered, and let you use the picture in probably the vain hope that you would pay for pics in the future. As it is, I would like you to remove my picture from any place you have used it.

Oh, and to say that without your display there would be no photos is very condescending. Is the Government free to use any picture it finds of Big Ben without permission, because if they didn't build it, we couldn't take pictures of it. You were paid by Liverpool City Council to put on a public display.

So again, please remove my picture from any place you have reproduced it.

I look forward to seeing any displays you may do in the Liverpool area in the future.
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Today I received this reply,

Hello. Although you are correct in saying that Liverpool City Council paid us to put on the fireworks display, Fantastic Fireworks holds the rights to the artistic content. Could you let me know under what licensing arrangement you photographed and reproduced the results on the web? Without such an arrangement I may have to ask you to remove them immediately.
Regards
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Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to put things in context. :)

So I have asked them to remove my picture from anywhere they have reproduced it, and they have responded by saying I don't have the right to photograph their display, and asking under what 'licensing arrangement' I photographed their display? I don't remember seeing anything on the ticket, oh hold on, their were no tickets informing me of the terms for viewing. :bonk:

Who is right? :shrug:

Do they have the right to stop people reproducing pics of their displays? Liverpool City Council paid for the display, and I pay the huge amount of council tax that they used to pay for it. :( :lol:

They haven't removed my picture as yet btw. :nono:

Opinions please, and if there is a copyright laywer passing through, a word in your shell like. ;)
 
Hmmm tricky. I know there have been some crazy copyrighting issues in the past, Eiffel Tower for example. Tower lighting has been copyrighted and photos can't be used for commercial gain without permission. The simple fact is that you hold the copyright to that image. Lets just focus on that for the time being. Have you licensed the work with Creative Commons for say non-commercial use? If you haven't then you reserve all rights unless explicitly stated. They can't just take the image and put it on their site no matter what they say to owning the rights to their display. Its still your image. So I would keep fighting on that front. They can't use it unless you say so. Everytime you take a photo you own the copyright and can decide how to license it. The law is on your side there. You don't have to prove you've copyrighted the image as its automatic.

Regarding the rights to their display, well are they going to start telling everyone on Flickr to take down their images? Its a fireworks display, everyone loves to photograph them. If it went to court I imagine it would be really silly. You're, afaik, an amateur photographer posting the photos on a site for sharing photography not for commercial gain. They haven't lost anything so they can't quite claim for losses. I'd ask for proof of their claims and to see what rights they have setup. But keep the pressure on for the removal of your image from their site because they haven't licensed it.
 
You're basically dealing with a clueless bully, trying to be clever. By the looks of your shot, you took it from some distance away, and therefore on a public area. I'm pretty sure they have no right whatsoever to claim you cannot photograph their display. I would read up on a few sites about your rights, and then batter him with extracts and jargon, and add that unless the photo's are removed by a certain date, you will be starting legal proceedings.

But that's just me, I hate bullies :D
 
They're trying it on and they know it. The difference is they have used the image commercially, you didn't and if they want to argue that in court I'm sure the judge would appreciate a good chuckle :)
 
If you took the picture from a public right of way they can't stop you - much the same as an architect or construction company can't stop you taking photos of a building.

Write to the gut giving him 14 days to remove the image before you put it in the hands of a solicitor - don't even mention their request for you to remove the photo from Flickr.

The guy's a arse, and needs to be told so :rules:

Good luck !

Steve
 
However if they have copyrighted the pattern or something then he can't publish the photo or use it commercially as its a breach of their copyright. It doesn't matter whether he was on public property or not.
 
Thanks for replying. :)

There were no tickets Matty. The display was happening all around the city, no need for tickets. The only tickets I know of for a fireworks display is for the Southport Musical Fireworks, and I think that is only to get closer to the event.

As you say I have not made any commercial gain from the picture, and yet they have. :shrug: I found their reply quite funny, as has everyone I've showed it to. :lol:

If I take the matter further, who should I get in touch with? A solicitor? Or is there a photographic body that protects photographers rights? :shrug:
 
This pdf basically tells you what has been posted above.

http://photosoc.manchester.ac.uk/uploads/old_slides/legal.pdf

If you were in a public place, or private property that was opened to the public charging a fee or not, any pictures taken by you of something that was put on display for the public to view, then you own the rights to that photograph. END OF.
 
TBH a solicitor is going to cost you money and its a web sized image so you're general fee for that is like £50 or so. Its a fair bit of money for no real return. Just keep hitting them with legal info. You don't care whether they own the copyright, you own the copyright to your photo. Get them to take it down. Keep asking for proof of their rights regarding their display.
 
Contact the council too - see if there was some sort of exclusivity contract or anything. If they paid for the display then there is a chance in the contract that the display belonged to the Council (though also a fair chance it didnt)
 
petemc said:
TBH a solicitor is going to cost you money and its a web sized image so you're general fee for that is like £50 or so. Its a fair bit of money for no real return. Just keep hitting them with legal info. You don't care whether they own the copyright, you own the copyright to your photo. Get them to take it down. Keep asking for proof of their rights regarding their display.
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Depends on how much it'll cost. My wages are in, the credit cards have got nothing on them, and I don't like people trying to bully me. :nono: Even to win nothing but costs would be worth it. If they try to take a Liverpool resident, and Liverpool City Council employee btw (which I always forget I am) to court, do you think they would get any more work from Liverpool with such bad publicity. And there would be bad publicity. ;)

If they are in the right, which I think so far they are not, then a lot of my pics from other displays would have to be deleted from the internet (as well as a lot of other peoples pics I would imagine) and I don't think that is right. :thumbsdown:


I asked them to remove my picture, I didn't ask for money, which I could have quite easily done, as they have acted illegally by knowingly copying and using someone's work for profit.

Any more advice is very welcome before I decide my next move. :D
 
If they got the image from here they will be reading this thread also!!
 
Begin any communication "Without prejudice" -- that gives you leeway to e.g. ask for more if it goes to court. Ask for a reply "with time being of the essence" and state that you reserve the option to commence legal proceedings if necessary. Tell him that all communications will be blogged or otherwise published on the Web, to ensure fair dealing.

Are you a member of a union that could give legal help? The legal eagles would advise you get one of their number involved as soon as possible, but you want one on a "pro bono" (for the public good) or contingency (no win, no fee) basis. Do things on your own and it can be a case of bluffing until one side gets bored, and that can take months. Alamy's rates are £60 for royalty free or £165 for a month on't Web, licensed. So charge £200+ and say that you'll be sending an invoice to cover compensation for the infringement (you are not offering a licence). If that's ignored, then a debt recovery solicitor will send a Letter Before Action for a low fee (£2.35 for Thomas Higgins) and that usually has a swift effect :-)

Copyright can exist in a recognised design e.g. illuminations. I think you're safe in the assumption that you didn't infringe any copyright in their routine as you didn't record a section on video, though it might be different for a still of a message/design lit up with fireworks.

The Gowers Report gives Trading Standards powers to seize infringing items. As this firm has grabbed the work of several photographers your TSO may like to give them a rap over the knuckles.
 
Redhed, you could try the following websites -

http://www.epuk.org.uk- a forum for pro's where this sort of thing is discussed regularly. The aforementioned David Hoffman is (or was) involved in epuk.

http://www.own-it.org- they have a free advice service on copyright and repro problems, but not restricted to photographers.
 
Take the story to the local paper, they'll love it and it's in their interest too :D
 
Well Flickr have forced Fantastic Fireworks to remove my picture from their Flickr gallery. :)

I'm waiting for the Liverpool Capital of Culture company to get back to me to clarify under what terms they employed Fantastic Fireworks.

Not that that has anything to do with them nicking my picture, but it is nice to get the facts sorted. ;)
 
Well done for taking a stand on this one mate.
Have you sent them a bill for using your photo yet?

Price list for a random firework image on Almany...

Large 50.2mb 4171 x 4205 £310.00
Medium 28.mb 2 3128 x 3154 £245.00
Small 7.1mb 1564 x 1577 £245.00
Extra small 1.6mb 751 x 757 £100.00


Keep up the good work :thumbs:
 
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