Somebody found a particle ... cost around $3 Billion apparently!

gramps said:
BBC News

What would you have used the $3 Billion on?
Click to expand...

My own money - no- but this project has had joint funding from all the partners, not sure how many, so the cost to individual countries is rather less than the headline figure.

Do I think it's worth it?, well I'd rather see money spent on this than lots of other things our government sees fit to fund!.

David
 
and lets not forget that most of the three billion went back into the global economy supporting jobs and livelihoods etc
 
Yeah, f-ing CERN. What has it got us? Presumably you mean apart from fhe internet.
 
gramps said:
BBC News

What would you have used the $3 Billion on?
Click to expand...

I think it's worth every penny. How can we put a price on knowing the very fundamentals of our existence? I think the team at CERN, and at similar atom-smashers around the world, have done an awesome job.

Science and knowledge is our future.
 
I would buy Canon then shut it down and make everybody buy Nikons....:lol:
 
I'm sure the new particle will go a long way in helping all these starving kids in 3rd world countries or even closer to home helping our own folk get the help that's badly needed. <sarcastic mode off>
 
I doubt anyone could give a better example of that much money contributing so much to the lives of people all over the world.
 
gramps said:
BBC News

What would you have used the $3 Billion on?
Click to expand...

I would buy TP :thumbs: Sack all the Mods :D Take them back on again, and then sack them all again :lol:
Well apart from Yv, I would just chain her up and have a packet of Jaffacakes just out of reach :D :suspect:
If it`s the missing link they are after I could have flogged Joescrivens to them for a few sobs :thumbs:
 
Last edited:
Ricardodaforce said:
I think it's worth every penny. How can we put a price on knowing the very fundamentals of our existence? I think the team at CERN, and at similar atom-smashers around the world, have done an awesome job.

Science and knowledge is our future.
Click to expand...

Bang on the money, in my opinion :thumbs:

Yves Geza said:
I would have given it as tythes to organised religions to look for deities.
Click to expand...

Haha, at least CERN stands a chance of finding what it's looking for :naughty:
 
Worth every penny. These kinds of projects also end up having practical implications, with technologies used in the detection having more mainstream uses. And quite frankly, curiosity is one of the things that defines humans, so we should be doing this kind of thing. And going back to space.

Mind you what we really need is someone to spend this kind of money and more on nuclear fusion. Shame more traditional energy industries don't like that idea...
 
Ricardodaforce said:
How can we put a price on knowing the very fundamentals of our existence?
Click to expand...

I think it's very low compared with making an existence where kids don't have to go to bed hungry or starving, elderly can't get hip/knee/cataract operations, whole areas of countries get swamped with water displacing millions ... I could go on!

Tell me how knowing about this particle will help resolve any of the really pressing issues that face mankind today.
 
Stop trolling please! This endeavour produced the Internet which in and of itself helped every group mentioned already.
 
I take exception to being called a 'troll', especially in my own thread!
My comments are valid and I stand by them, IMO the $3 Billion could have been much more productively spent elsewhere and my opinion is as equally valid as yours.
 
Oh jeez. Next we'll be arguing about how creationism needs as much lesson time as evolution in our schools...
 
Garnett said:
Oh jeez. Next we'll be arguing about how creationism needs as much lesson time as evolution in our schools...
Click to expand...

I doubt it as unfortunately religious discussion is not given time on this forum. Regardless there is a question to answer about the wise use of this amount of money - having someone come into a thread in an attempt to stifle a genuinely held view in favour of his own does nothing to address the issue.
 
A long time ago some idiot wasted his time and resources inventing the wheel. We never learn. :D
 
Nothing invented here though is there?
 
well without cern..there wouldn't be a thread on which to moan about it..
 
gramps said:
Nothing invented here though is there?
Click to expand...

Isn't there? Being able to isolate the mass of matter from matter itself could change the world.

E.g. leave all your higg's at home, travel at near light speed easily (zero mass), then top-up your Higgs at a pump at your destination (preferably before you eat anything). :D

I'm joking but who knows where it could lead, this is fundamental stuff.
 
gramps said:
I think it's very low compared with making an existence where kids don't have to go to bed hungry or starving, elderly can't get hip/knee/cataract operations, whole areas of countries get swamped with water displacing millions ... I could go on!

Tell me how knowing about this particle will help resolve any of the really pressing issues that face mankind today.
Click to expand...

Surely it's a question of balance, there are always going to be urgent and pressing problems facing mankind but the solutions to these problems are not compromised by individuals or institutions doing pure research.
On the contrary, spin-offs from pure research find their way into our everyday lives and the sum total of their value must inherently produce benefits for all mankind, we just need to work smarter to achieve this.
 
gramps said:
I think it's very low compared with making an existence where kids don't have to go to bed hungry or starving, elderly can't get hip/knee/cataract operations, whole areas of countries get swamped with water displacing millions ... I could go on!

Tell me how knowing about this particle will help resolve any of the really pressing issues that face mankind today.
Click to expand...

Tell me honestly how 3 billion could scratch the surface of these problems. 3 trillion sure.
 
See, I'm not against progress believe me, but science has a habit of spending a lot of time (and money) on things that are unproductive or counter-productive just to relieve curiosity. I'm all in favour of, for example, the invention of the Da Vinci Robot that now greatly helps those who suffer from prostate issues ... the progress in heart surgery procedures that means that people who would previously be dead can now have virtually routine procedures to unblock coronary arteries etc ... thing is I don't see this research bringing anything so helpful to mankind.
 
footman said:
Surely it's a question of balance, there are always going to be urgent and pressing problems facing mankind but the solutions to these problems are not compromised by individuals or institutions doing pure research.
On the contrary, spin-offs from pure research find their way into our everyday lives and the sum total of their value must inherently produce benefits for all mankind, we just need to work smarter to achieve this.
Click to expand...

I tried to say this above but failed! :thumbs:
 
This 3 billion is justthe tip of the iceberg when it comes to science and technology hunting.

I agree 3 billion could be better spent else where but it will never be that way end of discusion right there, there is always a reason why people go looking for this sort of stuff, we will never know the true reason behind why they need to know but I bet alot of good comes out of it one way or another.
I would hate to think how many amazing facts or life threatening illnesses have been cured by accident. if you do not try you will never know.

There is big big money gets spent all the time even in these hard times for the rest of us but you never get to hear about it, its only when the press get to hear about it do we.

spike
 
footman said:
Surely it's a question of balance, there are always going to be urgent and pressing problems facing mankind but the solutions to these problems are not compromised by individuals or institutions doing pure research.
On the contrary, spin-offs from pure research find their way into our everyday lives and the sum total of their value must inherently produce benefits for all mankind, we just need to work smarter to achieve this.
Click to expand...

Very valid argument, the benefits are what I am struggling to see ... I fully accept that I might be wrong but on balance at this time I don't see any really useful benefits in putting this money in this direction.
 
SpikeK6 said:
I would hate to think how many amazing facts or life threatening illnesses have been cured by accident. if you do not try you will never know.
Click to expand...

Another valid argument ... penicillin for example.
 
I seem to remember Prof Cox saying that particle accelerator development led to the massively powerful magnets and associated tech used inside MRI scanners.

It's hard to put a value on the research itself because it's so pioneering. It's the kind of thinking that got us out of scrabbling arpund in the riverbeds though, we can't help it - it's in our genes.
 
Ok. Let's keep it simple. Benefit number one: the Internet.

Which has allowed an exchange of information the benefits of which are (this thread excluded) immeasurable in their worth to all of mankind let alone the groups you have mentioned.
 
I'd rather spend 3 billion on research than 3 billion on more bankers bonuses.
 
ZoneV said:
I seem to remember Prof Cox saying that particle accelerator development led to the massively powerful magnets and associated tech used inside MRI scanners.

It's hard to put a value on the research itself because it's so pioneering. It's the kind of thinking that got us out of scrabbling arpund in the riverbeds though, we can't help it - it's in our genes.
Click to expand...

If that is correct then I have to agree with you as to some of the benefits, the MRI scanner has been a great medical advancement ... I'll ignore the real thread troll.
 
Feel free to question the figures, I have not thoroughly checked the sources, but they are just there to make a point.

Cost of the Afghan war to date = $460bn
Cost of the Irag war to date = $800bn
Costs attributed to alcohol to the NHS each year = £3bn
Costs attributed to smoking to the NHS each year = £1.5bn


The list could go on and on. The point being, kids are not starving in Africa because of scientific research at CERN, nor is it the reason that people have to wait longer than they should for operations or the like.
The money is there to do good with, it's just chosen not to.

If CERN didn't get the funding it did, do we really think it would go to a more publicly 'worthy' cause?
 
bass_junkie83 said:
Feel free to question the figures, I have not thoroughly checked the sources, but they are just there to make a point.

Cost of the Afghan war to date = $460bn
Cost of the Irag war to date = $800bn
Costs attributed to alcohol to the NHS each year = £3bn
Costs attributed to smoking to the NHS each year = £1.5bn


The list could go on and on. The point being, kids are not starving in Africa because of scientific research at CERN, nor is it the reason that people have to wait longer than they should for operations or the like.
The money is there to do good with, it's just chosen not to.

If CERN didn't get the funding it did, do we really think it would go to a more publicly 'worthy' cause?
Click to expand...

Now this is a very interesting post and highlights a much larger issue and problem that this thread and indeed science cannot resolve.
 
gramps said:
Now this is a very interesting post and highlights a much larger issue and problem that this thread and indeed science cannot resolve.
Click to expand...

The way I look at it simply, countries and governments can spend their money on good things and bad things.

I would say scientific research is a good thing. Aid to struggling countries is also good, maybe even better. But when you look at the two side by side with no other distractions, it appears that aid is good but we are not doing enough, so scientific research must be bad.

Take a step back and they are both on one end of the spectrum, just spaced a little apart.

Without wanting to sound like a hippy, imagine where we would be if there was no war. Take all that money and you could both fix a lot of wrongs in the world, as well as speed up our rate of extending our own knowledge.
 
bass_junkie83 said:
Without wanting to sound like a hippy, imagine where we would be if there was no war. Take all that money and you could both fix a lot of wrongs in the world, as well as speed up our rate of extending our own knowledge.
Click to expand...

Hippy me, hippy me :D
This is so true but sadly not the priority of those who govern us ... or dare I say even of the majority of the governed!
 
Ironically, many things we take for granted and even depend upon during peace time are products of accelerated development motivated by wartime necessity.

For example, Turing and Welchman's solution for the mass processing/decryption of German messages during WW2 led to Colossus, the first electro mechanical semi programmable computer, which laid the foundations for modern computing.
 
Last edited:
gramps said:
If that is correct then I have to agree with you as to some of the benefits, the MRI scanner has been a great medical advancement ... I'll ignore the real thread troll.
Click to expand...
So, ignoring the Internet, you've still seen enough benefit in CERN to correct your point of view?
 
Garnett said:
So, ignoring the Internet, you've still seen enough benefit in CERN to correct your point of view?
Click to expand...

I may not agree with Gramps on this one, but can't see the need to be so antagonistic towards him :shrug:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top