"Some Canon and Nikon lenses are rebadged lenses from 3rd party makers"

[andya700]

Vans are often the same vehicle, but rebadged.

The Vauxhall Vivaro, Renault Traffic and Nissan Primastar are all the same van, just with different tweaks depending on the brand.

Some Mazda's are old Fords, with different names.

And is the the Toyota Aygo that citroen and peugeot make the same of?

But I can't see it being the same with lenses, it would be too obvious, although one could argue that whilst the physical outside of the lens was the same, the quality of the glass inside was different.

However, as someone who does not handle many lenses at all, I would rather go with the view of Stewart who does.

Would you care to tell us which ones?
Many car manufacturers use common floorpans, but to say that some Mazdas are "old Fords" is a bit wide of the mark.
Getting back to lenses, Vivitar used to use up to a dozen manufacturers to make their lenses - komine, Tokina, Kiron, to name three. I believe that Zeiss used an old Minolta lens for one of their models.
It is therefore not impossible to believe that Canon, Nikon or any of the other large manufacturers use outside contractors to build their lenses.

 

[AJQS]

Would you care to tell us which ones?
Many car manufacturers use common floorpans, but to say that some Mazdas are "old Fords" is a bit wide of the mark.
.

Not really, the Mazda 121 mk1 was sold in Japan and the US as a Ford Festiva, (and was according to one version of the story always built from the outset by Kia, who carried on selling braded as the kia pride until 2000),The mk3 was a Mk 5 (or 4 or 6, can't remember which) Fiesta with an extra plastic rubbing strip on the boot. The Mazda 323 was sold under Ford and Mercury badges...

I wouldn't be suprised if Tamron, Tokina et al were making lenses for Canon and others, although they are obvioudly to different designs and specs to their own bramded lenses. It's not like the current Samyang lenses which have 8 different brands for the same lens! :bonk:

 

[Jelster]

Would you care to tell us which ones?
Many car manufacturers use common floorpans, but to say that some Mazdas are "old Fords" is a bit wide of the mark.
Getting back to lenses, Vivitar used to use up to a dozen manufacturers to make their lenses - komine, Tokina, Kiron, to name three. I believe that Zeiss used an old Minolta lens for one of their models.
It is therefore not impossible to believe that Canon, Nikon or any of the other large manufacturers use outside contractors to build their lenses.

Mazda is owned by ford so, for instance, the Mazda 6 shares the floorpan with the Mondeo, and the Focus does the same with the Volvo C30. But they're made in different factories and look quite different too.

Back to the OP, why can't Canon or Nikon have a factory in China ? Or they can have equipment made to their specifications by a 3rd party under licence. However, I'd be very surprised to see somebody else market a "copy" of the same product.

Steve

Sent from my iPad using TP Forums

 

[srichards]

Would you care to tell us which ones?
Many car manufacturers use common floorpans, but to say that some Mazdas are "old Fords" is a bit wide of the mark.
Getting back to lenses, Vivitar used to use up to a dozen manufacturers to make their lenses - komine, Tokina, Kiron, to name three. I believe that Zeiss used an old Minolta lens for one of their models.
It is therefore not impossible to believe that Canon, Nikon or any of the other large manufacturers use outside contractors to build their lenses.

I think that's the wrong way round. The mazdas are the new floorplan that end up in the ford version later. The 626 uses the floorplan that ends up in the later mondeo.

In motor manufacturing there is a lot of parts sharing. Bottom line is the value of the bits doesn't vary much across the range but the selling price does. Fords probably have the same value of bits as MB. You just pay a lot more for the MB badge.

Sometimes a badge means better quality. Sometimes it doesn't. It's knowing when to pay the extra and when to get the third party equivalent. Branding is mostly marketing clap trap. If you take the branding off a lot of products most people cannot tell them apart.

Most LCD tvs are made in the same low number of factories. Ditto laptops. It's the way of the world.

 

[hashcake]

Not sure about who makes Canon lenses, but they are not all made in Japan. My 18-55IS was made in China and my 55-250IS was made in Taiwan, which does beg the question. Were they made in a Canon factory?

As far as I am aware, based on the production codes on my L lenses and others I have seen, all L lenses are manufactured in Japan.
It wouldn't surprise me if Canon either outsource or have their own production facilities for consumer lenses in China and Taiwan to help keep production costs down.
Other Canon products such as ink jet printers are more than likely assembled in China.
Long gone are the days when the giants of consumer electronic such as Sony assemble their products in Japan.
This would make sense as Canon would have tighter control with QA on their L lenses and no doubt the staff are better qualified and more experienced.

 

[hashcake]

Uncle Ken thinks it's true

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/70300af.htm

Is he still alive?

 

[odd jim]

As far as I am aware, based on the production codes on my L lenses and others I have seen, all L lenses are manufactured in Japan.
It wouldn't surprise me if Canon either outsource or have their own production facilities for consumer lenses in China and Taiwan to help keep production costs down.
Other Canon products such as ink jet printers are more than likely assembled in China.
Long gone are the days when the giants of consumer electronic such as Sony assemble their products in Japan.
This would make sense as Canon would have tighter control with QA on their L lenses and no doubt the staff are better qualified and more experienced.

But why wouldn't they want the same level of qc with their standard lenses? And as far as I'm aware the qc is as good with the standard lenses as they are with the L lenses.

Qc isn't the same as build quality, as long as the product is reliable and operates to spec the qc is spot on. Pretty much all canon lenses perform as such.

I'm pretty sure all canon lenses and glass elements are made in canon factories, though other components can obviously come from anywhere.

 

[odd jim]

Ok so here we go.

ALL Canon cameras are made at their main factory in Oita, Japan.

Oita Canon also acts as the 'Mother Factory' for overseas supporting factories (Canon Zhuhai China, Canon Opto Malaysia and Canon Taiwan)

So any lens made in China, Malaysia and Taiwan is still made by Canon.

 

[odd jim]

A little history;

http://www.ehow.com/about_5746044_canon-manufactured-taiwan-vs_-japan.html

 

[Byker28i]

Then there is depreciation of products, do nikon/ canon lenses hold their value in used markets better than 3rd party ones? I don't know about that one, but usually a mercedes holds it's value better than a seat.

Well,again a strange comparison, because a mercedes costing twice the price will lose more money on the first 3 years in depreciation.

 

[hashcake]

But why wouldn't they want the same level of qc with their standard lenses? And as far as I'm aware the qc is as good with the standard lenses as they are with the L lenses.

Qc isn't the same as build quality, as long as the product is reliable and operates to spec the qc is spot on. Pretty much all canon lenses perform as such.

I'm pretty sure all canon lenses and glass elements are made in canon factories, though other components can obviously come from anywhere.

Fair point, I was thinking about build quality as well but failed to mention that.
I wasn't trying to say that Canon pay less attention to QA on consumer lenses, but there may be more leeway for such things on movement on a lens ring.

 

[lawrie29]

Would you care to tell us which ones?
Many car manufacturers use common floorpans, but to say that some Mazdas are "old Fords" is a bit wide of the mark.
QUOTE]


As an exercise in badge engineering, the Mazda 121 and Ford Fiesta were built on the same production lines and used almost all the same parts. In the JD Power reliability surveys at the time, the Mazda was reported to be significantly more reliable and attracted higher levels of customer satisfaction.

Ford Ranger/Mazda pickup are the same.

I think someone else has given a more detailed answer, but the 121 was the car I was thinking of.

It also happened with Daewoo, when they launched in the UK and were selling the old shape Astra, with a few changes.

And the same with Seat/Audi/Vw/Skoda, And to some extent the VW/Audi?porsche 4x4's share the same platform IIRC.

 

[specialman]

I've never looked at where my camera gear is made. I buy Nikon because I trust the technology and i trust the level of performance it offers. Do I care if it's assembled in Japan, China or wherever? In a word, no. Providing the gear does what it's supposed to then I'm happy.

10-17mm fisheye, 35mm f2.8 macro, 100mm f2.8 macro, 12-24mm f4, 16-50mm f2.8 50-13mm f2.8 were co designed by Pentax and Tokina.

Pentax then added quickshift and their own smc coating plus the 16-50mm and 50-135mm got weather sealing and ultrasonic motors as well.

If I were a Pentax who happened to care where the lenses on offer were sourced from, I think I'd be quite happy to know that many of the lenses come from a collaboration with Tokina - good gear that helps create good images

 

[HoppyUK]

Uncle Ken thinks it's true

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/70300af.htm

Good find!

I find that astonishing. A marketing blunder at least. That link is from 2005 and Nikon have since discontinued it I think.

 

[dinners]

I could be way off the mark here but manufacturers (in any trade) will do whatever they can to succeed.

At the end of the day - the quality of the product is what matters and it's up to the consumer to evaluate what they get. If you're happy then does it matter ?

Taking it to the extreme and speaking hypothetically - would you simply chuck away all your L lenses tomorrow if you learned they were made by kellogs ?

 

[specialman]

.....would you simply chuck away all your L lenses tomorrow if you learned they were made by kellogs ?

Brilliant

 

[menthel]

I can't see it matters who makes a lens as long as it works. Just sounds like brand snobbery to me. If you want to indulge in brand snobbery get yourself a leica!

 

[hashcake]

Good find!

I find that astonishing. A marketing blunder at least. That link is from 2005 and Nikon have since discontinued

Nikon have ceased production of DSLR cameras and lenses?
There is a god!

 

[Tirpitz]

How many of the components in your nice new Mercedes were actually manufactured by Mercedes?

very good point

ALL cars are built up of hundreds/thousands of moving/non moving parts all supplied by the (usually) lowest priced supplier

 

[Ksanti]

It goes on with Sony a fair bit with them rebranding and tweaking 3rd party lenses, never heard of it with Canikon

 

[allanm]

If you want to indulge in brand snobbery get yourself a leica!

I have!

But at least I know the lens was made in Germany (or Japan Taiwan Vietnam or China). But that doesn't matter because the image the lens produces is so sharp, you can cut yourself on it!

We have a German VW Beetle, made in Mexico ( 3 years old and still in one piece) A superb Meade telescope, a USA company but its made in China and a Stoves / Leisure Cooker, made in Albania or Latvia or some other Eastern European country. Its rubbish!

It really doesn't matter where stuff is made ( apart from the Eastern European cooker) as long as QC is as good as it can be.

I did hear a rumour that all new Canon and Nikon lenses are now made in one factory........

Allan

 

[Splog]

I could be way off the mark here but manufacturers (in any trade) will do whatever they can to succeed.

At the end of the day - the quality of the product is what matters and it's up to the consumer to evaluate what they get. If you're happy then does it matter ?

Taking it to the extreme and speaking hypothetically - would you simply chuck away all your L lenses tomorrow if you learned they were made by kellogs ?

Kellogs don't make lenses for anyone else.

Sent from my X10i using TP Forums

 

[paula]

Well,again a strange comparison, because a mercedes costing twice the price will lose more money on the first 3 years in depreciation.

Have you tried to buy a seat from 20 years ago vs a mercedes from 20 years ago? Yes you are right that with luxury items the depreciate faster in the first three years a bit longer even, but chances are they can become classics. The prices of some old nikon lenses (new or used) maintain pretty much their value, and as far as I know most 3rd party lenses don't as well.

 

[cobra_lite]

Some of the budget Nikkor and Canon lenses are assembled in China - maybe that's where the confusion lies.
Those assembly plants no doubt do work for other manufacturers.
Hoya also make the glass for Sigma lenses by the way.

 

[andya700]

Not really, the Mazda 121 mk1 was sold in Japan and the US as a Ford Festiva, (and was according to one version of the story always built from the outset by Kia, who carried on selling braded as the kia pride until 2000),The mk3 was a Mk 5 (or 4 or 6, can't remember which) Fiesta with an extra plastic rubbing strip on the boot. The Mazda 323 was sold under Ford and Mercury badges...

I wouldn't be suprised if Tamron, Tokina et al were making lenses for Canon and others, although they are obvioudly to different designs and specs to their own bramded lenses. It's not like the current Samyang lenses which have 8 different brands for the same lens! :bonk:

The Mazdas which you are talking about, have not been in production for years, nearly a decade.
The new Mazdas - 2, 3, 5, 6 are very different from anything on the market. The floorpan on certain models is used in the Focus and Mondeo models from Ford, but the petrol engines are very different. The 1.6 and 2.0 have an internal camchain, whilst the Ford models use cambelts.

 

[JODmeister]

Who knows what goes on behind the scenes regarding rebadging, or making under contract.

A few years ago there were only 3 companies making large plasma screens. These were sold to all the various consumer suppliers who made their own facias/stands/speakers and made their own software.

Sony did have shares in Tamron, not sure if that's still the case, but Sony did use a very similar lens SAL 11-18 that Tamron sold.

JOD.

 

[SimonTALM]

Uncle Ken thinks it's true

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/70300af.htm

He also says

Of course no one should care who makes it. This is just for all you conspiracy theorists out there.

:bang::bang::bang:

 

[Tracer]

For me though (and a lot of others) China/Taiwan will forever be associated with cheap mass produced manufacturing and Germany/Japan with engineering excellence and reliability.

I am old enough to remember when Japanese goods were rightly regarded as cheapo rubbish!

 

[andya700]

At the end of the day, what does it matter? If a lens made by an outsourced manufacturer, performs as well as you would expect, particularly at the higher price levels, then should you be worried?
The independent manufacturer, may well produce their own lenses, but at price levels, and with compromises in quality which reflect the market they are catering for.
A Michelin starred chef, is quite capable of cooking a Saturday morning fry up, but is equally at home producing fine cuisine for the discerning diner. Why should we therefore assume that an independent lens manufacturer is not capable of producing top quality work if required?

 

[odd jim]

Like I said in my previous post, ALL Canon lenses are made by Canon in Canon factories!

 

[neil_g]

How many of the components in your nice new Mercedes were actually manufactured by Mercedes?

none, theyre made by cadbury's chocolate teapot division.



and for the record those comparing vw/audi/seat/skoda, theyre all the same because theyre the same group and use mainly the same parts so not really a good analogy. not sure if that was mentioned, i got lost in the waffle.

 

[pmiddleditch]

some of you people need to get your facts right.the FACT is that Canon and Nikon have both used third party suppliers going back a great many years to make SOME of their lenses for them.though to be fair the lenses are made entirely to Canon and Nikon's own spec and not the third party's

do some digging and you will find 'the truth is out there'


peter