Soft box differences

SpikeK6

SpikeK6

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Read many threads on here referencing the cheap lights on eBay and everyone's opinion is that they are not worth the money.
OK I get that, you pay for what you get, but there seems to be a vast difference in prices of soft boxes too.
Now I know you get different sizes but what are the main differences between say a cheaper soft box off eBay and a more expensive one from say Elinchrom or the like.

thanks

spike
 
SpikeK6 said:
Read many threads on here referencing the cheap lights on eBay and everyone's opinion is that they are not worth the money.
OK I get that, you pay for what you get, but there seems to be a vast difference in prices of soft boxes too.
Now I know you get different sizes but what are the main differences between say a cheaper soft box off eBay and a more expensive one from say Elinchrom or the like.

thanks

spike
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The main thing is build quality. The will last you forever with a good one, a cheap one may start to fail after putting it up and taking it down a few times.

You also usually pay more for the softness the soft box creates with light. A double diffused will cost you more than a single on eBay for the same brand.

I've had both, and if I'm leaving them up or not having to build from scratch each time you can easily get away with the cheaper ones. However mine are up and down quite often and for that reason not only have I gone for a better brands but also for the umbrella type for quickness (which is also more money)
 
Thanks Dan for your reply.
To be totally honest for the amount they will be used I think the cheaper ones will do me.
normally I will set up my lights do a shoot then its backin the box till next time and there is many months between.
I was more concerned about the light but I think for what i use them for they will be fine.

Thanks

spike
 
SpikeK6 said:
Thanks Dan for your reply.
To be totally honest for the amount they will be used I think the cheaper ones will do me.normally I will set up my lights do a shoot then its backin the box till next time and there is many months between.
I was more concerned about the light but I think for what i use them for they will be fine.

Thanks

spike
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Probably :) I've used some very expensive softboxes and TBH I wonder why, apart from some manufacturers charging as much as they think they can get away with.

I don't like the cheapest ones, mainly becuase they're a PITA to put up/down and the only time I've ever broken a softbox was when doing that and the corners ripped under tension of inserting the rods.

Lencarta Profold softboxes are good, push up like an umbrella, and are very reasonably priced. Look at Bessel too.
 
I'm using cheap eBay umbrellas and sofboxes. I'm not sponsored by any company and with the amount of time shooting outside in windy weather... I wouldn't be able to replace them fast enough :)
 
Build quality - obvious enough, cheap ones aren't likely to last as long as more expensive ones and and may not even fit together as well, but there's far more to it than that.

1. Let's start with the thickness of the material - is it opaque or will it spill light back to the camera through the walls of the softbox? If it does, it is very likely to cause flare

2 And are there any gaps at the rear, where light again leaks and causes flare?

3. And what about the inner surface? If it's completely smooth, it won't spread the light evenly. Smooth is cheaper.

4. And what about the diffusers? Are they actually opaque? Thin, semi transparent ones are useless, but they're common because they cost less. Is the colour temperature of both the walls and the diffusers neutral? And how quickly will they yellow? Once they've yellowed, you need to replace the softbox, or at least the diffusers.

And then there is design.
1. Is the front recessed properly? If it isn't, you won't be able to feather the light effectively and again you're very likely to get flare
2. Most softboxes now have both inner and outer diffusers, but how far back is the inner one? If it's too close to the outer one, it won't do much

Of course, none of this is exactly rocket science - but then that's the problem! They are very easy to make in backstreet factories, they don't require much in the way of machinery, or skill, or knowledge. The people who 'design' them often have no idea what they are for, they just find a cheaper way of making one that they've bought from another backstreet factory, and the one that they copy from is of course a copy of another copy, and so it goes on.

When high tech products are copied they can go in one of two ways - a cheaper, less efficient product or a better one, a new generation of the one that has been copied. But with low tech products such as softboxes, each cheap copy tends to be worse than the one it was copied from.
 
Thanks for that Garry.

Good insight to the cheaper soft boxes, think I might save a few pennies and get a decent one, at least it will last me.
My studio equipment will be used maybe once or twice a year so not wanting to spend hundreds.

will do a bit more research useing your info and go from there.

cheers

spike
 
Garry with your explanation in mind what softbox would you recommend for someone who wants to get their first one and get something ok but without breaking the bank?
Oh and one that fits a flash rather than studio lights.

Spike sorry if I'm hijacking your thread but maybe the info would be useful to you too. :)
 
EMA747 said:
Garry with your explanation in mind what softbox would you recommend for someone who wants to get their first one and get something ok but without breaking the bank?
Oh and one that fits a flash rather than studio lights.

Spike sorry if I'm hijacking your thread but maybe the info would be useful to you too. :)
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To be fair after reading your post I should have asked that too lol.

Mine would be for a studio light though.
 
You really can't go too wrong with Bessel.


Garry will recommend Lencarta as that's his baby, and to be fair all my lighting gear is from Lencarta too but Bessel are a cheaper option and do a very capable job.

http://www.bessel.co.uk/acatalog/Soft_Boxes.html
 
EMA747 said:
Garry with your explanation in mind what softbox would you recommend for someone who wants to get their first one and get something ok but without breaking the bank?
Oh and one that fits a flash rather than studio lights.

Spike sorry if I'm hijacking your thread but maybe the info would be useful to you too. :)
Click to expand...

For a hotshoe flash, you're very limited on size. Barebulb flashes (rare) allow the light to bounce around inside the softbox in much the same way as a studio flash, and will illuminate it evenly, but nearly all flash guns have a fixed reflector that doesn't allow the light to bounce around, severely limiting the smoothness and eveness of the light. A Stofen type diffuser fitted to the front does help though. But you're still limited by lack of power.

To be fair after reading your post I should have asked that too lol.

Mine would be for a studio light though.
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None of these problems apply to studio flash, but whether it's studio flash or not, get a deep one.

Bowens used to make an incredibly expensive Wafer softbox that was very shallow but which worked extremely well because of the quality of the design and materials, but I believe that they've been dropped now. The copies I've seen don't work.

Even with a studio flash fitted, it can be a mistake to get a really large one unless you have plenty of ceiling height

Once you've decided on quality, design and size, you need to decide on shape. Octa softboxes produce octa-shaped catchlights, square ones produce square shapes etc - very largely just personal preference
 
Garry Edwards said:
For a hotshoe flash, you're very limited on size. Barebulb flashes (rare) allow the light to bounce around inside the softbox in much the same way as a studio flash, and will illuminate it evenly, but nearly all flash guns have a fixed reflector that doesn't allow the light to bounce around, severely limiting the smoothness and eveness of the light. A Stofen type diffuser fitted to the front does help though. But you're still limited by lack of power.

None of these problems apply to studio flash, but whether it's studio flash or not, get a deep one.
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That's interesting to know. I have been watching the Zack Arias One Light DVD and he's using some Westcott softbox with his flash.
I don't really want to go down studio lights route just yet because the flash is more portable, I already own one and I am only wanting to try lighting as I currently don't shoot anything that requires it but would like to have knowledge of how to do it. :)

Am I right in thinking there are things that will convert a studio light softbox so it can use a flash? Like a metal plate at the back or something...seem to remember reading somewhere but I might be wrong. :D
 
I get very even coverage from a hot-shoe gun in a softbox using the wide-panel diffuser, that covers a claimed 14mm lens with my 580EX guns - 104 degrees side to side.

Slightly better than using a Stofen, and a couple of tenths brighter. As good as with a studio head.

That's with a Lencarta Profold 70x100 double-diffuser softbox, within 0.2 of a stop right across the front. YMMV ;)

Edit: reverse-firing softboxes are good with hot-shoe guns, where the gun fires towards the rear.
 
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EMA747 said:
Am I right in thinking there are things that will convert a studio light softbox so it can use a flash? Like a metal plate at the back or something...seem to remember reading somewhere but I might be wrong. :D
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You're not wrong, you can get one of these. It will allow your hotshoe flashgun to be used with some studio lighting tools, but it won't overcome the limitations set out earlier
 
the Lastolite Ezybox range of softboxes are brilliant!

they have a 'lollipop' type fitting which is perfect for OCF, which also makes them ultra portable (especially if you have some triggers)

the build quality is really excellent and I would recommend them over and above any other manufacturer. :)
 
SpikeK6 said:
Thanks for that Garry.

Good insight to the cheaper soft boxes, think I might save a few pennies and get a decent one, at least it will last me.
My studio equipment will be used maybe once or twice a year so not wanting to spend hundreds.

will do a bit more research useing your info and go from there.

cheers

spike
Click to expand...

Spike,
I have to say that whilst what others say about cheap studio lighting may well be true, if you're only using it a couple of times a year I really think you ought to consider just getting a budget set-up to begin with. If nothing else it will confirm what you really need when you come to upgrading.

I currently have a cheap x3 head 'eBay' set-up (supplied by a company just down the road from me in Salisbury) and my daughter and I have used it extensively over the past 3 years. In terms of quality:
- Yes the modelling lights aren't very bright.
- Yes the overall build quality of the flash heads isn't great.
- The remote firing sensors are impeded by ambient light (e.g. if shooting in daylight). But hey, I just pull the curtains etc.
- The heads do provide reasonable exposure for portraits etc (about f8-11)
- Softboxes seem to produce good balanced light. BTW I don't take the boxes apart between shoots as they would probably soon break.
- Stands go up to a reasonable height as well so full length people shots are perfectly achievable.

I do look after the set-up and put everything away carefully each time so it doesn't get kicked around.

I do accept that the set up will not last forever and will need replacing at some point, but if so by then I'll know more exactly what I do and more importantly what I don't need in kit terms - and that could save me hundreds of £££s in the long term.

HTH.

P.S. Does it have to be flash heads or will daylight balanced continuous do?
 
Garry Edwards said:
whether it's studio flash or not, get a deep one.

Bowens used to make an incredibly expensive Wafer softbox that was very shallow but which worked extremely well because of the quality of the design and materials, but I believe that they've been dropped now. The copies I've seen don't work.
Click to expand...
Why are the deep ones better, because the light is more directional?

Even with a studio flash fitted, it can be a mistake to get a really large one unless you have plenty of ceiling height
Click to expand...
Simply because you can't get the large ones as high, relatively? Doesn't that depend how high you need it?
 
Triggaaar said:
Why are the deep ones better, because the light is more directional?
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Partly. And partly because the light bounces around more thoroughly inside, resulting in more even illumination of the front diffuser

Triggaaar said:
Simply because you can't get the large ones as high, relatively? Doesn't that depend how high you need it?
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Yes. But given the fact that light from above tends to be flattering and look natural, it makes sense to reserve that option
 
imagerap said:
Spike,
I have to say that whilst what others say about cheap studio lighting may well be true, if you're only using it a couple of times a year I really think you ought to consider just getting a budget set-up to begin with. If nothing else it will confirm what you really need when you come to upgrading.

I currently have a cheap x3 head 'eBay' set-up (supplied by a company just down the road from me in Salisbury) and my daughter and I have used it extensively over the past 3 years. In terms of quality:
- Yes the modelling lights aren't very bright.
- Yes the overall build quality of the flash heads isn't great.
- The remote firing sensors are impeded by ambient light (e.g. if shooting in daylight). But hey, I just pull the curtains etc.
- The heads do provide reasonable exposure for portraits etc (about f8-11)
- Softboxes seem to produce good balanced light. BTW I don't take the boxes apart between shoots as they would probably soon break.
- Stands go up to a reasonable height as well so full length people shots are perfectly achievable.

I do look after the set-up and put everything away carefully each time so it doesn't get kicked around.

I do accept that the set up will not last forever and will need replacing at some point, but if so by then I'll know more exactly what I do and more importantly what I don't need in kit terms - and that could save me hundreds of £££s in the long term.

HTH.

P.S. Does it have to be flash heads or will daylight balanced continuous do?
Click to expand...

Like you said you do not take your soft boxes apart during strip down, I wish I had that sort of space to leave them up lol.

Mine would be taken down everytime and stored, I have been looking around and going off garry's advice i think I will get one that is reasonably priced, this is for home use only so not looking to set up a studio.

My lights are flash and/or continuous, they are not off camera flash heads these are proper what i would call studio lights that work off the mains
 
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After 20 years of use off and on my softboxes were getting a little tired, mostly bent rods and diffuser discolouration - though still all fully usable, but I started looking at replacements. Now as I use Multiblitz flash heads it would have been nice to get OEM ones, but as a hobbyist these are expensive at over £200 for a small recessed stripbox, then you have to add the cost of a grid to that and as my studio space is small I really wanted good small grids. I ordered a Fotodiox 48 inch octobox from the USA, but after a few weeks as it didn’t ship I chased them for an update to find out they were going to be out of stock for awhile, but they offered to send a 60 inch one instead – 12 inches extra diameter doesn’t sound much, but I should have stuck with the 48 inch one, it’s huge in my little room but great outside! Build quality is great, heavy duty stitching, deep front recess, thick inner diffuser, nicely textured inner surface and even output of light.

The next one I tried was a budget eBay one that the main outer was quite well built – but the front diffuser didn’t actually fit, it was too small! Then again it did come from a seller who mostly dealt in car parts…:lol:

As I quite often get various bits and pieces from Germany (not particularly photographic) I looked at a few companies & www.Foto-Morgen.de was recommended. As they sell Jinbei, I thought I’d give one of those a go (company with a reasonable track record) so ordered a 100x100cm ‘pro’ one with grid. Reasonable build quality not as good as the Fotodiox, grid is not fully stitched, but of the threaded design, good stitching on the seams, very good quality (substantial) inner diffuser and very, very even output from corner to centre. On the whole I was happy for the £73 (inc.delivery) and expect it to last quite a long time and it certainly won’t be left up between shoots. While I was looking around I came across an eBay seller TSL-2009 that had what looked to be Jinbei softboxes a bit cheaper, but branded as PixaPro. Well last week they started a 10% off sale, so I ordered a 35x140cm stripbox, also with a 4cm grid. This arrived today, definitely Jinbei IMO, just put it up to check it over (10 minutes) and in every detail it matches the build of the Jinbei and for only £52.48 to my door. Nice deep design and a tight grid - just put it through its paces and I’m well pleased.

Paul.
 
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Ok another question seeing as I am learning alot about lighting with this thread.

What is the grid for on the front of the soft box you mention. Does it direct the light instead of spreading the light?? The guy i did the course with did not have one of these on his soft box
 
SpikeK6 said:
Ok another question seeing as I am learning alot about lighting with this thread.

What is the grid for on the front of the soft box you mention. Does it direct the light instead of spreading the light?? The guy i did the course with did not have one of these on his soft box
Click to expand...

Basically yes - as shown here

Paul
 
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