Social Services query - 93 year old mother

BillN_33

BillN_33

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My mother is now 93 years old and since my father died, almost 20 years ago, she has lived alone with my brother living near by who has kept an eye on her

She has always been quite fit and weather permitting has gone out each day for a stroll, to the local shop etc.

She owns her own house, a small Terraced house in Yorkshire, she still sleeps upstairs and now gets to bed with help from my brother

Since January this year she has started to deteriorate, become more and more deaf and quite frail ..... but she is still good, happy and as active as can be expected

In January my brother gave up work to look after her full time .....as he is now "on his own" he lives with her ...... she needs 24 hour a day attention ....... I would not say care as she still cooks etc.

With this in mind it was suggested a few weeks ago that Social Services were called to offer advice

My brother is living off savings, (not that much), and he cannot get any "unemployment" benefits as he is not looking for work - he is therefore not classed as unemployed .........

I cannot remember the last time my mother went to the doctors and she says that she has never needed to go ........ it could easily be 20 years ....... she will not go period!!!

Anyway it was suggested that a "Carers Allowance" may be claimable, presumably by my brother ...... around £60 per week

My mother now lives off her OAP and, apart from this, has never received any benefits whatsoever

The guys who came round from SS agreed that she is in need of help but the big problem is that she has not been to the doctors for years, and because of this it may be doubtful

OK you may say that the easy thing is for her to go to the Docs and be assessed, but she is quite a stubborn Yorkshire lady and refuses to go because she thinks that they will recommend that she be "put in a home" and also that her house may be taken away from her .......... she will never allow that to happen

If anyone has any similar experiences I would be grateful of your comments ........... I live in France, so apart from a few visits a year I can only really discuss things with them on the telephone
 
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I've had the same, father and mother in law live close, mother in law has advanced dementia but is 'happy dippy' as I call it.
Mother in law went into a home in February as father in law could no longer cope - in reality hasn't coped for a year, but that generation are as stubborn as a mule. My father in law did receive carers allowance though, you need to ring the tax office and sort it with them (or your brother does).

Social services were ok, but getting the allowances sorted were a nightmare - still not right.

How much is her pension, is she entitled to pension credits? Worth checking.as my mother in law was entitled to them for years and we only found out when they charged the money assuming she was getting them. Cant backdate either.
 
Byker28i said:
I've had the same, father and mother in law live close, mother in law has advanced dementia but is 'happy dippy' as I call it.
Mother in law went into a home in February as father in law could no longer cope - in reality hasn't coped for a year, but that generation are as stubborn as a mule. My father in law did receive carers allowance though, you need to ring the tax office and sort it with them (or your brother does).

Social services were ok, but getting the allowances sorted were a nightmare - still not right.

How much is her pension, is she entitled to pension credits? Worth checking.as my mother in law was entitled to them for years and we only found out when they charged the money assuming she was getting them. Cant backdate either.
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Thanks, that's good to know - will follow up - as you say stubborn to the end "the only way I'm leaving my house is in a ......." attitude ........ but to be truthful there is no way she needs to be in a "home", she is very happy as she is with my brother looking after her, she has lived in the same street for years ......... OK it is a very big strain on him ....... but he wants it that way
 
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Local council will like that and so should you. If the house is in her name then that counts as savings and they will use that to pay for the care home fees. If she stays at home there's a number of options they will do. We had my in laws bathroom converted to a wet room, a stair lift put in, all done by the council. It's about two months care home fees.
She should also be able to get care worker visits? I doubt she'd like your brother to do personal care so use that angle, assistance with dressing, bathing/showering etc.

If she goes into a home then theres two rates of savings you need to be aware of. Under £14k of savings and they won't take any money, upto £22k? (I think) and they take some. Over that and they take all the care home payments until it drops below that level.

Once below that level, they leave about £25 a week for personal money (haircuts etc) and take everything left over from pension income, but pay for everything, such as optician, dentist care home fees etc

Good luck with the system
 
Byker28i said:
Local council will like that and so should you. If the house is in her name then that counts as savings and they will use that to pay for the care home fees. If she stays at home there's a number of options they will do. We had my in laws bathroom converted to a wet room, a stair lift put in, all done by the council. It's about two months care home fees.
She should also be able to get care worker visits? I doubt she'd like your brother to do personal care so use that angle, assistance with dressing, bathing/showering etc.

If she goes into a home then theres two rates of savings you need to be aware of. Under £14k of savings and they won't take any money, upto £22k? (I think) and they take some. Over that and they take all the care home payments until it drops below that level.

Once below that level, they leave about £25 a week for personal money (haircuts etc) and take everything left over from pension income, but pay for everything, such as optician, dentist care home fees etc

Good luck with the system
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Thanks again

Presumably no-one can force her to go into a Care Home against the family wishes
 
Carer's Allowance appears to be something your brother could apply for but, as you have said your Mum receives only her pension and no other benefit, it is not an option. For someone to receive Carer's Allowance the person being cared for has to be receiving certain benefits.

This is the link to the appropriate section of the gov.uk website - https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/overview

In your Mum's position I think Attendance Allowance is likely to be the benefit she could claim which, if awarded, would allow your brother to make a claim for Carer's Allowance.

Link about Attendance Allowance - https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance/overview

However, it depends on whether your Mum is willing to claim Attendance Allowance and while the claiming doesn't require a medical assessment the claim form does ask when the claimant last saw their doctor and for permission to contact the GP about the claim.

Dave
 
Tringa said:
Carer's Allowance appears to be something your brother could apply for but, as you have said your Mum receives only her pension and no other benefit, it is not an option. For someone to receive Carer's Allowance the person being cared for has to be receiving certain benefits.

This is the link to the appropriate section of the gov.uk website - https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/overview

In your Mum's position I think Attendance Allowance is likely to be the benefit she could claim which, if awarded, would allow your brother to make a claim for Carer's Allowance.

Link about Attendance Allowance - https://www.gov.uk/attendance-allowance/overview

However, it depends on whether your Mum is willing to claim Attendance Allowance and while the claiming doesn't require a medical assessment the claim form does ask when the claimant last saw their doctor and for permission to contact the GP about the claim.

Dave
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Thanks Tringa - just spoken to my brother - they had a letter yesterday saying just that and the guys is coming in 2 weeks to fill in the Attendance Allowance Form with Mum, and then as you say my brother can claim Carers Allowance - I just hope that this doesn't "spook" her as she is not paranoid, but almost, about this Care Home thing ............. but I suppose at 93 year old and very deaf it is understandable .......... but there is no way any of us would let her go into a Care Home unless the situation became very grave
 
Similar situation here too Bill, although my mum (91) does have regular check-ups, at the Drs for one thing or another.
She lives and copes quite well independently, but my brother and I live close, and share any "care" that is required.
My mum claims a carers allowance, I think its about £60 week, (I don't know the exact amount) for home help, ie help with the housework, and shopping.
(Which we do between us) Although she is also registered blind.

I know people take the p*** out of social workers, but they were a great help in getting various things sorted out.
Its worth a shot, they can only say "no" but then keep at them and they do eventually say "yes"

Housing, mum lives in a council house, and there has never been any mention of a care home, obviously, that would cost a fortune, and its far cheaper for the authorities, to leave her when she is,
and let the "family" do the running around. ;)
 
At least your Mum has agreed to having someone from Social Services visit. The same happened with my MiL a few years. The visit was, Mrs Tringa, told me very relaxed and uncomplicated, but my MiL sees her doctor fairly regularly and is on several preseciption drugs.

All the best

Dave
 
Cobra said:
Similar situation here too Bill, although my mum (91) does have regular check-ups, at the Drs for one thing or another.
She lives and copes quite well independently, but my brother and I live close, and share any "care" that is required.
My mum claims a carers allowance, I think its about £60 week, (I don't know the exact amount) for home help, ie help with the housework, and shopping.
(Which we do between us) Although she is also registered blind.

I know people take the p*** out of social workers, but they were a great help in getting various things sorted out.
Its worth a shot, they can only say "no" but then keep at them and they do eventually say "yes"

Housing, mum lives in a council house, and there has never been any mention of a care home, obviously, that would cost a fortune, and its far cheaper for the authorities, to leave her when she is,
and let the "family" do the running around. ;)
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Tringa said:
At least your Mum has agreed to having someone from Social Services visit. The same happened with my MiL a few years. The visit was, Mrs Tringa, told me very relaxed and uncomplicated, but my MiL sees her doctor fairly regularly and is on several preseciption drugs.

All the best

Dave
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Thanks Guys ... difficult times ....... just don't know what to do the best ......... sometimes
 
BillN_33 said:
just don't know what to do the best ......... sometimes
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The one thing I've (We've) learned over the last few years is to keep at these people, and make a lot of noise, to get what you are owed.
They are more than happy to give you the run around, in the hope that you will "drop it"

TELL the local council that your mum needs a social worker / case worker( through the local authority / council)
And get in touch with the citizens advice bureau too.

Keep at them and sooner or later they get bored with passing the buck and it'll land on someone's desk that actually knows what they are doing and does actually give a f***!
Good luck :)
 
I'm sorry to hear about your Mum Bill. If its of any help we've being going through something similar with my Dad in Law. I have Power of Attorney for him so I've been dealing with social services a lot lately.

TBF, while we've needed to make a lot of noise SS have been, generally pretty helpful. Giving all sorts of advice as to his entitlements (he's always been pretty bad at claiming stuff) and sorting some issues. They've never, to my knowledge, enquired about a doc, although he does seen often.

I've no direct experience, but I believe you're right about an allowance for your brother
 
Cobra said:
The one thing I've (We've) learned over the last few years is to keep at these people, and make a lot of noise, to get what you are owed.
They are more than happy to give you the run around, in the hope that you will "drop it"

TELL the local council that your mum needs a social worker / case worker( through the local authority / council)
And get in touch with the citizens advice bureau too.

Keep at them and sooner or later they get bored with passing the buck and it'll land on someone's desk that actually knows what they are doing and does actually give a f***!
Good luck :)
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This! Very Definitely
 
Cobra said:
The one thing I've (We've) learned over the last few years is to keep at these people, and make a lot of noise, to get what you are owed.
They are more than happy to give you the run around, in the hope that you will "drop it"

TELL the local council that your mum needs a social worker / case worker( through the local authority / council)
And get in touch with the citizens advice bureau too.

Keep at them and sooner or later they get bored with passing the buck and it'll land on someone's desk that actually knows what they are doing and does actually give a f***!
Good luck :)
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Hi Bill - Good luck with this!

I work for Citizens Advice in Worcester, UK. Some useful (I hope) information from the CAB website:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/attendance-allowance/
 
Referral, Assessment, Package of Care.. my comments in this thread - https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/really-p-ed-off.635766/ - may be equally useful here.

In addition to my comments on that thread. There are so many targets for helping old folk to live at home rather than in care that losing her home is unlikely to be an issue. If you mother is identified as requiring care and your brother is happy and capable to continue to do so then she may qualify for an personal care budget which she could use to pay your brother.

Your brother should also qualify for a separate carers assessment. He should insist on getting this. It can open up additional services that help both of them, e.g.if she needs constant care it could provide some respite care to provide cover to allow him to get out once in a while and have an independent social life. Do not let your brother neglect his own needs.

Don't overlook "minor" services that may be offered. From my time working with social services on reporting care package statistics I saw some really heart-tugging evidence of lives transformed by services as simple as having the laundry collected, done and brought back.
 
Cobra said:
Attendance Allowance, that's the one, not carers allowance as I said above (y)
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Don't worry - it's confusing:confused:!

But for Bill's brother to get Carer's Allowance, his mum needs to put in a claim for Attendance Allowance.

Good advice from Alastair above:)!
 
Thanks everyone I'm passing all this info on and discussing it with my brother
 
The difficulty Bill isn't the route through the benefits and social services system, though lots of people believe it is.

Your issue will be getting your mum convinced of the right thing to do.

I don't know who your brother and mum have already spoken to, but as above the 'system' would like to leave your mum at home and put in place the support she needs.

Putting her in a home is not in anyone's best interest, convincing her of that might be tricky though.
 
Phil V said:
The difficulty Bill isn't the route through the benefits and social services system, though lots of people believe it is.

Your issue will be getting your mum convinced of the right thing to do.

I don't know who your brother and mum have already spoken to, but as above the 'system' would like to leave your mum at home and put in place the support she needs.

Putting her in a home is not in anyone's best interest, convincing her of that might be tricky though.
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Thanks Phil,

She is adamant and we are adamant that she will not go into a Care Home and even a slight mention of the word upsets here ...... so it is never really mentioned now ........ but she sees any "officialdom" as suspicious in this respect and would rather carry on "as is" with no help ...... that's the problem we are having .. getting her to accept that there are Allowances there which she is entitled to with "no strings attached"

As I said no-one wants here to be in a Care Home ..........
 
I don't think the person coming from Social Services to take your Mum's claim for Attendance Allowance would mention "Care Home", but as it upsets your Mum so much (and possibly might make her reject claiming AA) perhaps your brother could have a quick and quiet word with the person from SS to make sure it is not mentioned.

Dave
 
It sounds quite similar to my own situation. After I got laid off from my greenhouse job five years ago, I mentioned to the Job Centre/DWP that I have a frail elderly mother living with me so the next job has to be close to home in case of emergencies. Before I knew about it, I was put on income support and carers allowances and "officially" became a full time home carer. Although mother is receiving pension credit and attendance allowance in any case.

The first thing I did was to give up the car as I knew there was no need for it, and it was a bit of an old banger anyway. Also I was in the fortunate position of being debt free with a relatively small mortgage which is on the verge of being paid off. After a bit of jiggling about with my outgoings (as in, did I really actually need that life insurance? Private pension? That kind of thing), all those "voluntary" type outgoings has been stopped and thus just left with the all important essential "utility" bills to deal with. As a result, it became surprisingly manageable where I'm still debt free with even a small bit of savings tucked away for that emergency or rainy day (although I did get lucky with a small inheritance a couple of years ago).

Mother is still around but aged 75, she's feeling it more with dementia, colitis and arthritis, but like the OP's mother in question, she refuses to be put into a home. Mum and I have our bad days and good days depending on the mood of the moment, but it does help that we are sticklers for routine along with keeping things as cheap, simple and cheerful as we possibly can.

There are still some legal questions I need to ask myself if it does get to a point where mother have to go into care, that kind of thing, as the house/mortgage is in both our names but that's really another matter for another time and we have had visits by the social services with regard to what improvements could be done to the house to make our lives that little bit easier. My sister is currently looking into it all as I'm partially hearing and cannot hear on the phone but it may be a bit of a long wait as the social services isn't exactly a bottomless pit of money - but for now we're coping okay.
 
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The issue will be how the house itself is in the deeds. Whether it is joint tenants or tenants in common. One of them it's much easier for them to force a sale of the property to pay for care. One of them you both own all of it the other it's a proportion. Also if she's ill enough then they can't do that anyway. It depends on what type of care the person needs. If it is certain types of care/illness then the NHS picks up the bill. It comes down to whether it is health care or personal care.
 
There are organisations (charities) that support carers. For example in the area of Yorkshire I live there Carers Leeds and Carers Resource (Ripon & Harrogate based).

When I was pressured into claiming support for my Wife who has Dementia I found them very helpful. They even completed the forms for Disability Living Allowance for me.

Not sure which part of Yorkshire your Mum lives but there may well be a similar facility.

Hope you get the support your Mum needs.
 
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