So, what's the point?

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I've posted similar threads to this before I am sure, but the train of thought still rolls down a similar track

My latest photo thread with the dancer made me ask it again though.

It is a question I seem to ask myself often and was discussing with a photographer friend recently. The kind of photos I seem to take or want to take, are not photos that are going to make me money, nor are they good enough to be up there with some of the top photographers. Yes the give me pleasure to shoot, but receive mixed reaction and, being a largely subjective thing, will always have some people really liking or disliking the final result. Even the top professional photographers receive the same reaction if I discuss their work with photographic friends and, if they posted certain shots on forums anonymously, would no doubt receive criticism etc.

Which does make me think what the point of it all is? Now this is not me being down and depressive about it all (as has been known), and people make analogies about playing Sunday league football but never playing premiership etc, but creative things such as photography is different to me.

Here the end result is, a load of mediocre photos on a hard drive that have no value to anyone, seen by a few people on forums who give feedback either way and then forget about them forever.

Thanks for any opinions. :)
.
 
Bagsy first shout on any kit you want to sell :thumbs:
 
u8myufo said:
Bagsy first shout on any kit you want to sell :thumbs:
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I don't wanna sell any kit, despite what may have happened previously. This was posted in all seriousness and I'm a bit dissappointed that the first reply had potentially derailed it already.
 
I can see where you're coming from. I have, on occasion, taken a step back and wondered why we do what we do.

I always end up asking myself one question - "do you enjoy it?" - invariably the answer is yes so I keep on doing it. If the answer ever differed then I'll look at making a change.

I think there are a lucky few who really enjoy what they do AND make good money from it.

Don't think too deeply about it though or you could drive yourself nuts :thumbs:
 
gazmorton2000 said:
I don't wanna sell any kit, despite what may have happened previously. This was posted in all seriousness and I'm a bit dissappointed that the first reply had potentially derailed it already.
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Well in all seriousness. " I've posted similar threads to this before I am sure, but the train of thought still rolls down a similar track "

What exactly is it you want to hear from people :shrug: You know how you feel about all your non impressive pictures clogging up the hard drive, either back them up and put them in a time capsule or delete them. And yes I am being serious, I have a close friend of mine having a major op today. Personally I do not know if I will be giving him a bloody big man hug this week, or standing up at a pew saying a few words at the funeral, and I then read this kind of stuff. Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh but I would not get too worried about a few pictures.
 
There is no point. Do it because you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy doing it then quit!
 
srichards said:
There is no point. Do it because you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy doing it then quit!
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exactly this, unless you want to make money from it [and if you do, you need to look at how you are going to do that in a way you enjoy and can do], then its a hobby, just enjoy it. WHY do mountaineers climb the peaks....because they can, because it's there :shrug:
 
I get this sometimes - and this is my job, my career, and quite simply what I do. Just look at my photos and want to pack it in and flog my cameras. Go get a steady but somewhat boring job in advertising or PR. Take down my website and stick to iphone snaps. There's so many incredibly brilliant advertising photographers out there, I feel like I'm pretending, a fraud - my pictures aren't anything on theirs, doing even the low end stuff that I do at the moment - and the gap between the production levels of what I do, and what they do, is so monstrously vast that I simply can't fathom a way to progress.

This video helps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZYlQ4Wv8lE
 
Because I love doing it. Because I want to be better at it. Because I get joy out of looking at some of the end results. Because I look at what others have done and I want to be able to do what they do. Because having a camera in my hand feels like a good thing.
 
srichards said:
There is no point. Do it because you enjoy it. If you don't enjoy doing it then quit!
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As I said, I enjoy doing it, but do not enjoy the mediocre results.

Yv said:
exactly this, unless you want to make money from it [and if you do, you need to look at how you are going to do that in a way you enjoy and can do], then its a hobby, just enjoy it. WHY do mountaineers climb the peaks....because they can, because it's there :shrug:
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A bad analogy IMO. A mountaineer enjoys climbing the peak and gets satisfaction from reaching the top of the peak. An end goal. He has reached the summit. He will go climb another peak and will get the same feeling of satisfaction when he reaches that summit.

itsdavedotnet said:
I get this sometimes - and this is my job, my career, and quite simply what I do. Just look at my photos and want to pack it in and flog my cameras. Go get a steady but somewhat boring job in advertising or PR. Take down my website and stick to iphone snaps. There's so many incredibly brilliant advertising photographers out there, I feel like I'm pretending, a fraud - my pictures aren't anything on theirs, doing even the low end stuff that I do at the moment - and the gap between the production levels of what I do, and what they do, is so monstrously vast that I simply can't fathom a way to progress.

This video helps. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZYlQ4Wv8lE
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I have watched that video many, may times before. Thanks for re posting.
 
We shoot for dough and shoot for show!

I've recently starting shooting for myself. Its the kind of work that I don't particularly want critique on, as its for me, my visions and idea's and they mean something to ME. It's great to do something just for yourself, it doesn't matter if you choose to share it or not. But if you do want to share it there are places you can without having to get critique. :)
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Which does make me think what the point of it all is? Now this is not me being down and depressive about it all...

...Here the end result is, a load of mediocre photos on a hard drive that have no value to anyone, seen by a few people on forums who give feedback either way and then forget about them forever.

Thanks for any opinions. :)
.
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Well... Most of my pictures these days are about capturing an image I'll want to look at and take pleasure from and I do look at at least some of my pictures most days but there's more to it than that. I also enjoy being out there taking pictures, I enjoy processing them and I enjoy seeing the result.

To me it's not like climbing a mountain as once you get to the top you've done it... to me it's more like golf, or painting in that you can always improve and play a better game of golf or paint a better picture or take a better photograph.

For me it's a hobby that has no real end as there'll always be things to photograph as people age and change appearance, new people are born, new buildings are built, flowers grow, leaves fall, the light changes over the landscape, it's never ending.

Hope you can regain your enthusiasm.
 
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Mank said:
We shoot for dough and shoot for show!

I've recently starting shooting for myself. Its the kind of work that I don't particularly want critique on, as its for me, my visions and idea's and they mean something to ME. It's great to do something just for yourself, it doesn't matter if you choose to share it or not. But if you do want to share it there are places you can without having to get critique. :)
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Hmm, some interesting points there Rob. Although when I do shoot stuff for myself (that's all i shoot), I do want to improve so do appreciate the feedback, even if it makes me feel like the shot was a failure. I guess I will fail more than I succeed which I am prepared to do now. It's when I continue to fail and don't learn from it the problems start.

woof woof said:
Well... Most of my pictures these days are about capturing an image I'll want to look at and take pleasure from and I do look at at least some of my pictures most days but there's more to it than that. I also enjoy being out there taking pictures, I enjoy processing them and I enjoy seeing the result.

To me it's not like climbing a mountain as once you get to the top you've done it... to me it's more like golf, or painting in that you can always improve and play a better game of golf or paint a better picture or take a better photograph.

For me it's a hobby that has no real end as there'll always be things to photograph as people age and change appearance, new people are born, new buildings are built, flowers grow, leaves fall, the light changes over the landscape, it's never ending.

Hope you can regain your enthusiasm.
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Thanks for your opinion. I haven't really lost my enthusiasm for photography and for shooting. Just wish there was something to aim for I think. :|
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Thanks for your opinion. I haven't really lost my enthusiasm for photography and for shooting. Just wish there was something to aim for I think. :|
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How about an end of year calender? You could consentrate on getting 12 good pictures to put in it.
 
Why don't you set yourself goals?

It could be a simple thing like get 10 people to like your image on Flickr enough to make it a favourite?
What about sending them to magazines to try get one published?
How about approaching a local business about displaying some of your prints?

Nobody is going to knock on your door and ask you if you want to do all these things, its up to you to motivate yourself to do more than clicking the shutter button.

You sound like you want to make a living out of your hobby but have no motivation to put yourself out there?

It sounds to me the problem is your outlook and not your photographic ability
 
I get this with other things I do - like detailing for example. I spent between 1.5 and 2 hours each Sunday morning washing my car. It gives me pleasure, which is why I do it. But sometimes I just can't be bothered.

In the end, you're alive and you're going to die. What you do in between now and then is up to you.
 
It's fun and even if 10 people see your image it's nice to know someone has looked at something you have 'made' and a bonus of they like it
 
woof woof said:
How about an end of year calender? You could consentrate on getting 12 good pictures to put in it.
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I'd be thrilled if, by the end of the year, I had one photo!

Big Nick said:
Why don't you set yourself goals?

It could be a simple thing like get 10 people to like your image on Flickr enough to make it a favourite?
What about sending them to magazines to try get one published?
How about approaching a local business about displaying some of your prints?

Nobody is going to knock on your door and ask you if you want to do all these things, its up to you to motivate yourself to do more than clicking the shutter button.

You sound like you want to make a living out of your hobby but have no motivation to put yourself out there?

It sounds to me the problem is your outlook and not your photographic ability
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I do like the idea of setting goals. But I am always defeated before the start which is a big problem. Thinking "I will never be as good as X photographer or Y photographer so why bother?!".

omens said:
I get this with other things I do - like detailing for example. I spent between 1.5 and 2 hours each Sunday morning washing my car. It gives me pleasure, which is why I do it. But sometimes I just can't be bothered.

In the end, you're alive and you're going to die. What you do in between now and then is up to you.
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Thanks for the input. :)

topcat07 said:
It's fun and even if 10 people see your image it's nice to know someone has looked at something you have 'made' and a bonus of they like it
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Thanks for your input. :)
 
Have you considered getting a little professional training in what ever you enjoy photographing? Beating yourself up because you lack the knowledge or the skills to produce an image you like isn't going to help you.

If you spend a couple of days with someone who can give you some fresh ideas or help you use you equipment more effectively surly this will be money well spent.

Ian
 
Why dont you shoot something that will be valuable to other people and share it with them? or do you want to make big bucks?

I take my dog to an obedience class, they also run agility for the club members - just for fun as it helps with the dog/owner relationship. I have taken to shooting (with my camera...) a few people between my runs, then share them.

They then in turn get some nice pictures of them with their dogs (which is much rarer than you think) and i see the gratification of my pictures being valued, even if its not monetary value...
 
I shoot for myself now,not so bother what other may think of my work.

I take a camera everywhere with me,even if its just down to the shops i kind of feel naked without one,love putting a camera up to eye,if i feel i am getting a bit stagnant i plan a day out where i know i will get some shots i enjoy taking i:e the seaside.

I alway felt i have missed out on quite a bit photography wise,and a lot of the time wish i could done things differently,so its alway in the back of my mind that there still so much i like to do.

:)
 
Good advice from Ian, you are stuck in a rut of taking images the same way and getting nowhere. I see images on here and at the camera club I am in which are far better than mine and that is the buzz for me, I strive to get mine as good. Seek help ( plenty on here ) join a club and I am sure you will soon see a difference.
 
Well, I don't reckon the photos on your Flickr page are mediocre, far from it.
You seem to have a good grasp of composition, lighting, posing and imagination.

In all seriousness, I look forward to your next contribution.

Thanks.
 
Taken to the nth degree, there is little point in doing anything, but that is the worse form of navel gazing.
 
I often wonder why, when someone gets a dslr in their mitts, they eventually wan to make some money out of it.

I just love taking pictures, and when the enthusiasm wanes I put it away for a bit and do something else.

I always go back to it eventually.
 
Kemble3 said:
Have you considered getting a little professional training in what ever you enjoy photographing? Beating yourself up because you lack the knowledge or the skills to produce an image you like isn't going to help you.

If you spend a couple of days with someone who can give you some fresh ideas or help you use you equipment more effectively surly this will be money well spent.

Ian
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THanks for the suggestion. It's a good one for sure. I will have to see what's available and consider it.

george g said:
Why dont you shoot something that will be valuable to other people and share it with them? or do you want to make big bucks?

I take my dog to an obedience class, they also run agility for the club members - just for fun as it helps with the dog/owner relationship. I have taken to shooting (with my camera...) a few people between my runs, then share them.

They then in turn get some nice pictures of them with their dogs (which is much rarer than you think) and i see the gratification of my pictures being valued, even if its not monetary value...
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No, I don't want to make big bucks at all really, just to be better. Maybe I am struggling to articulate my point?

simonblue said:
I shoot for myself now,not so bother what other may think of my work.

I take a camera everywhere with me,even if its just down to the shops i kind of feel naked without one,love putting a camera up to eye,if i feel i am getting a bit stagnant i plan a day out where i know i will get some shots i enjoy taking i:e the seaside.

I alway felt i have missed out on quite a bit photography wise,and a lot of the time wish i could done things differently,so its alway in the back of my mind that there still so much i like to do.

:)
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I too shoot for myself and I am my own worst critic. Nothing is ever good enough. Maybe I should just learn to deal with that? But I also won't shoot stuff I have no interest in just because it's something different.

KEV145 said:
Good advice from Ian, you are stuck in a rut of taking images the same way and getting nowhere. I see images on here and at the camera club I am in which are far better than mine and that is the buzz for me, I strive to get mine as good. Seek help ( plenty on here ) join a club and I am sure you will soon see a difference.
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See, I know a lot of people take inspiration from others work. Maybe 25% of the time I do that. The rest, I see others superb work and think mine can never be as good. :gag:

kendo1 said:
Well, I don't reckon the photos on your Flickr page are mediocre, far from it.
You seem to have a good grasp of composition, lighting, posing and imagination.

In all seriousness, I look forward to your next contribution.

Thanks.
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Thank you Kendo. I didn't start this thread seeking praise so wasn't fishing, but nice to know.

Steve said:
Taken to the nth degree, there is little point in doing anything, but that is the worse form of navel gazing.
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Good point.
 
We all do photography for our own, different, reasons. Some do it because they like playing with nice gear, some do it as a creative outlet, some do it to record their interests in wildlife, steam trains, birds, naked girls, etc, others do it for the money, others as a record of their lives. I'm sure there's hundreds of other damn good reasons. You need to decide on why you do it.

The advice I give, but is normally ignored or dismissed on here, is to photograph what you like outside of photography. What are you passionate about? What would you travel to do or see even if you didn't have a camera. This is what I would start with. So what if you can't shoot it or light it as well as Hobby or McNally? Do you know how long the people who are best known in each genre have been doing it for? Weeks? Months? Years? If you truly are doing photography for yourself, comparing your work againts the work of others should be aspirational and inspirational, not a reason to throw your arms in the air and flog your gear. By all means have high standards for yourself, but ensure that any feedback that you take seriously is from someone that you can take seriously.

Stick with it, progress in anything is not made by giving up!
 
Lock your kit away for a month. Dont think about anything photography and then in a months time re-asses your felings and take it from there.

I bet you get it all out before the month is up !
 
I started out because I wanted better pictures of my kids. I'm certainly no pro but I like to think I've improved from where I started. It's the reason I don't delete old pics from Flickr - so that I can see progress from when I started. I do it for the love of it. I just enjoy it!

I don't intend to earn money from it (quite the opposite in fact - it's a money pit of a hobby!) but it keeps me out of trouble and gives me a creative outlet.

I take pride in the fact that I've taken pics of my friends pics which are on their walls and I've developed a skill which was non existent a few years ago!

I also get pleasure from other people looking at/enjoying something I've created. Something that I wouldn't have been able to achieve without helpful advice and crit on here.

Photography will also be my "man-shed" when I stop working so that I don't annoy the wife too much!!! Things like having a dedicated home studio is something that I'd like to do, and learn how to use photoshop properly.

So I do think you're being harsh. Your results are not mediocre, far from it. Like the others, I look forward to more of your stuff.

S
 
gazmorton2000 said:
As I said, I enjoy doing it, but do not enjoy the mediocre results.
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It's a challenge!

I've just failed at a load of macros I was trying to capture this evening and I'm really ******ed about it, but I'll try again and again until I achieve what I'm after. It's really frustrating, sure, but that's the fun of it!
 
I do it because it is a hobby, like my other hobbies. I like landscapey type photos. I am not very good by the standards of the majority on here but the way I look at it is that even if I go out and come back with rubbish photos, it has got me out of the house in the fresh air, seeing somewhere or something I would not have seen before and because of it I have gone to places I would not have gone to otherwise. If I manage to take a photo I like that I can have printed, it is always a bonus.
 
Nguss said:
I do it because it is a hobby, like my other hobbies. I like landscapey type photos. I am not very good by the standards of the majority on here but the way I look at it is that even if I go out and come back with rubbish photos, it has got me out of the house in the fresh air, seeing somewhere or something I would not have seen before and because of it I have gone to places I would not have gone to otherwise. If I manage to take a photo I like that I can have printed, it is always a bonus.
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+1 on getting you out of house to different places and exploring
 
As mentioned above, your shots are far from mediocre.

My passion is with people/portraits, when I get down and out and feel my work is not good enough I do a few things.

1. I stop doing the people/portraits for a while and dabble in landscapes, wildlife and macro. I learn new things about light and composition, I see things whilst out and think "this would be a great location with a model etc.

2. I google and google other photographers work, if I see something I like, I research it, by the end I can already feel myself itching for the camera.

3. I leave it all for a few weeks. Forums , Flickr, Facebook. Camera. Everything. After a few weeks I was dying to get back into it.

Just my 2 pence mate, don't lose the faith!
 
Stop looking at other photographers' work (or at least stop comparing yourself to them). People shoot differently, and if you're always chasing someone else, what's the point. Shoot for yourself, shoot things you want to shoot - not because you've seen someone else come up with a good idea and you "want to be that good too".

Get inspired from your life, not from other photographs - they've already been taken. But, that's not referring to your dancers series. You started that yourself, so keep going with it, shoot it your own way and make it what you want it to be. It doesn't matter that someone made themselves famous doing a similar thing. Your series will be different, and there's a good chance it will be 'better', whatever that means. Even if it's not, who cares? You will still have a good project that you invested in and can be proud of.

If you need goals, why not work towards an exhibition, either off your own back or work towards being invited to take part in an established event (not 'competitions' that you pay to be part of). You can take satisfaction from having someone choose to curate your work, and then from seeing it up on a wall in front of hundreds/thousands of people - even if everyone of them says, "what the hell is this crap?" when they walk in the room. :D

Oh, and don't dwell on melodramatic Hollywoodesque videos from internet celebrities. :thumbs:
 
i wasnt expecting much from your flickr account the way you spoke..... Bloddy hell mate get a grip your work is superb!
 
If you don't gain anything from photography (as seems to be the case)...then just give up.

Seems like you are more interested in recognition rather than photography. Go post your shots to loads of Flickr groups, you'll soon have all the gold stars you could ever wish for.
 
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