So What Do You Think These UFOs Are?

People moving out of S'horpe?
 
JohnC6 said:
Agree 100%. Astronomers estimate the number of galaxies in the known universe is 100 billion. What strikes me is it's 100 billion galaxies, not stars. In our Milky Way galaxy their estimate for stars is 100,000 million. You say it would be really strange if there were not life of some kind in amongst those bodies. I'd say nigh on impossible. The numbers involved are beyond normal comprehension. What if there's another 'Universe'. Uni is one,of course ..so multiverse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...el-universes-be-physically-real/#1b8c8d494d3f

https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...scientific-about-the-multiverse/#3fa08f6a25c4

The one thing that I think of about dying is that I'll never know the answers to some of the most fascinating theories. Dark energy..approx 68% of the Universe. That's all we know about it. Dark matter. 27% The other 5% ..everything on Earth,all normal matter and all are observations by instruments. Astrophysicists in the England and Australia have discovered that different parts of the Universe have different laws of physics. At least ,as far as I'm aware, it's generally accepted that life anywhere in the Universe is carbon-based.

It's gone off a tad from what the title of the thread is but I suppose that was inevitable. What that unidentified object/vision is not is something from a location/source other than Earth. It's been mentioned in various ways in the previous posts. Why, having the technology to reach Earth do these 'crafts' never land ? We have technology that would detect anything like that in remote areas so no need for someone to ask.".how do we know they haven't ? " Endless amusing reasons for not landing,I appreciate but seriously..it's a non-starter.
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Like you there are some things I would like to know before my death. If I had a choice one would definitely be the confirmation of life elsewhere. Not knowing your age I would think that one day in the not too distant future scientists may discover what dark matter is and then maybe dark energy. The fact that they are convinced dark matter and energy are everywhere would tend to suggest it is all around us and therefore maybe one day detectable. Obviously at the moment it sounds like an invisible particle and an invisible force are involved. With the advancement in particle detectors I think dark matter will be found.
Given the constraints with distances, time, type of message or indication, then I think confirming life elsewhere will be extremely difficult. That is assuming we are talking about some type of intelligence as discovering insect type life will be almost impossible out with our solar system.
 
Ricardodaforce said:
Though that doesn’t explain what the pilots state that they saw.
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Visible light is just one part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

It seems strange that not all radars were affected - it was the newer ones that operate at certain frequencies; infra red and some other frequencies.
The older radars could not pick up the 'objects'.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
In this context: everything that exists, especially all physical matter, including all the stars, planets, galaxies, etc. "Multiverse" is illogical because it implies that the universe isn't the universe. :wideyed:
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I have to agree with that. It's an oxymoron to state that there are several Universes but that's what some astrophysicist refer to.

This is what Ethan Siegal (US astrophysicist) says in another Forbes article but it's also contradictory inasmuch as the last part of his last sentence alludes to a larger Universe(which is what you say it should be called ...ie one entity) but he then introduces the concept of 'disconnected universes'. I suppose the term..'disconnected' is the key. I've highlighted these statements by using italics. They're mine not those of the author.

He writes: 'The Multiverse is an extremely controversial idea, but at its core it's a very simple concept. Just as the Earth doesn't occupy a special position in the Universe, nor does the Sun, the Milky Way, or any other location, the Multiverse goes a step farther and claims that there's nothing special about the entire visible Universe'

The Multiverse is the idea that our Universe, and all that's contained within it, is just one small part of a larger structure. This larger entity encapsulates our observable Universe as a small part of a larger Universe that extends beyond the limits of our observations. That entire structure — the unobservable Universe — may itself be part of a larger spacetime that includes many other, disconnected Universes, which may or may not be similar to the Universe we inhabit.

What are your thoughts on that..ie disconnected universes ?
 
JohnC6 said:
What are your thoughts on that..ie disconnected universes ?
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As William of Occam may or may not have said: "Entities are not to be multiplied without necessity". So my guess is that the universe is infinite in both time and space, otherwise we shouldn't call it "the universe".
 
If we are to assume there is only one universe and the Big Bang is responsible for it then based on our knowledge this would indicate a finite one, assuming we have the age of 13.8 billion years and other calculations of speed and expansion to be correct. Irrespective of how large this may be, we are then always faced with the question of what is the universe expanding into, a total vacuum of empty space? Does this empty space then ‘exist’ before our universe moves into it. If it exists then what is to stop there being other particles/universes existing or is there just and infinite area that our own universe can keep expanding into.
Of course this is reaching areas that might be way beyond human comprehension ever.
The idea of finite seems ever more troublesome to me than infinite, but they are both mind boggling [emoji848]
 
Peter10d said:
Like you there are some things I would like to know before my death. If I had a choice one would definitely be the confirmation of life elsewhere. Not knowing your age I would think that one day in the not too distant future scientists may discover what dark matter is and then maybe dark energy. The fact that they are convinced dark matter and energy are everywhere would tend to suggest it is all around us and therefore maybe one day detectable. Obviously at the moment it sounds like an invisible particle and an invisible force are involved. With the advancement in particle detectors I think dark matter will be found.
Given the constraints with distances, time, type of message or indication, then I think confirming life elsewhere will be extremely difficult. That is assuming we are talking about some type of intelligence as discovering insect type life will be almost impossible out with our solar system.
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There's a NASA Moon landing scheduled for 2024. This mission will include the first women to land on the Moon too. I'm just wondering what some comedians will come up with re that :)

https://www.nasa.gov/topics/moon-to-mars/overview

Mars 2033 . I'll still be around.. if I can avoid COVID 19. Lol.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/starts...s-why-the-multiverse-must-exist/#6572dbcb6d08

Here's something I said one day whilst listening to an interview on the radio with an astrophysicist. He was asked if he thought that the billions spent on trying to get man to another life-friendly planet was too much. I think it was in the context of the fact that Earth will not exist at some point in the future His answer was that 'we owe it to the Universe to keep our species going by colonising another planet". I recall saying to that..sort of speaking to my wife ."We owe it to the Universe not to colonise another planet' :)

As for what missions are in progress here's a very good overview by NASA. Sort of 'take your pick as to interests you most.
https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/?...t=&mission_type=&launch_date=ascending#submit

This is a flight to the sun .
https://www.space.com/solar-orbiter-launched-whats-next.html
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
As William of Occam may or may not have said: "Entities are not to be multiplied without necessity". So my guess is that the universe is infinite in both time and space, otherwise we shouldn't call it "the universe".
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Good enough for me. I'm very pleased we've had this exchange (y) I shall banish the term multiverse from my vocabulary in relation to this topic but will need to keep it re the likes of poetry and songs ..:)
 
Ricardodaforce said:
We have totally veered off topic.
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If UFOs are alleged to be alien to earth, don't we need to evaluate the likelihood that alien intelligence exists? In order to make such an evaluation, it seems reasonable to define the parameters that will delineate our search area.
 
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AndrewFlannigan said:
If UFOs are alleged to be alien to earth, don't we need to evaluate the likelihood that alien intelligence exists? In order to make such an evaluation, it seems reasonable to define the parameters that will delineate our search area.
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When I created the thread I never mentioned aliens nor had them in mind.
As I pointed out there is already a thread for space and astronomy discussion. Up to you if you ignore it though.
 
I have read various proposals which have included multiple computer failure across the navy’s systems, or a trick played on the two pilots ( would that be even possible given the ramifications if anything went wrong), advanced technology in drones, or even some unknown meteorological phenomenon like ball lightening that we are unfamiliar with.
 
I would be surprised if there weren't UFOs.
I can't see governments admitting they were secretly testing xyz.
As for eye witnesses. Peoples eyes play tricks on them all the time. We know that, it's part of our role as photographers.
 
The one thing that always make me suspicious of certain ufo claims is the total lack of any decent photographic or video evidence. Given the amount of worldwide claims over the years and the fact that nearly everyone has recording equipment nowadays why are the images always fuzzy blobs totally out of focus.
 
Peter10d said:
The one thing that always make me suspicious of certain ufo claims is the total lack of any decent photographic or video evidence. Given the amount of worldwide claims over the years and the fact that nearly everyone has recording equipment nowadays why are the images always fuzzy blobs totally out of focus.
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But they're not. If you'd had an interested in the subject and had watched some of the better quality programming which is admittedly rare these days you might have seen some very clear video footage.

Some ufo related "news" does seem to appear and then disappear as if it'd never been reported and I do wonder why. Maybe it's because the subject is still seen as fringe and something that only matters to redneck americans or that any academic showing an interest could risk his reputation and career, I don't know.
 
woof woof said:
But they're not. If you'd had an interested in the subject and had watched some of the better quality programming which is admittedly rare these days you might have seen some very clear video footage.
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I would have thought if there had been some 'very clear video footage' that passed all scrutiny, then by now we would have heard something from the scientific community to suggest there is something that requires a full explanation.
 
Cockney said:
I would be surprised if there weren't UFOs.
I can't see governments admitting they were secretly testing xyz.
As for eye witnesses. Peoples eyes play tricks on them all the time. We know that, it's part of our role as photographers.
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An ex of mine had a relative who worked in some radar tracking establishment, I can't remember the details but I do remember the gist of what he said and it was that they regularly tracked UFO's and when they did a nice man came alone and took away the "tapes." Make of that what you will.

Of course tracking something that seems to be beyond normal civilian or military traffic doesn't mean it's aliens but if it is craft of some sort and isn't aliens that raises other questions such as who is it and why are they doing what they're doing where they're doing it. Suppose for a moment that what's seen is secret earthly technology. If that's the case why is it being flown so oddly? Playing cat and mouse with civilian and military aircraft? Intruding into civilian and military airspace? Overflying populated areas? Surely they'd need some air worthiness certification and permissions for all this?

Man made craft could well be what ufo's are today and even leading back to WW2 there's the possibility that humans had the ability to build craft that could fly fast and manoeuvre beyond the capabilities of conventional aircraft but the further back in time we go the more unlikely that seems and even if all apparent ufo's are man made craft that still leaves the question of why they act as they do,
 
Peter10d said:
I would have thought if there had been some 'very clear video footage' that passed all scrutiny, then by now we would have heard something from the scientific community to suggest there is something that requires a full explanation.
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You'd hope so.

I take it you haven't you had an interest in the subject for long and haven't seen decent vids?
 
Just a few plausible causes of UFO reports...
  • Cloud formations
  • Bird flocks
  • Insect concentrations
  • Atmospheric conditions such as refraction
  • Conventional objects in unexpected contexts such as kites and model aircraft
  • Random objects in the air such as plastic bags
  • Unconventional aircraft under test (possibly on the "secret" list)
  • Experimental objects such as high altitude balloons
I remember seeing a comprehensive list that ran to several pages, all of which were claimed to have been established as the cause of specific UFO reports.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Just a few plausible causes of UFO reports...
  • Cloud formations
  • Bird flocks
  • Insect concentrations
  • Atmospheric conditions such as refraction
  • Conventional objects in unexpected contexts such as kites and model aircraft
  • Random objects in the air such as plastic bags
  • Unconventional aircraft under test (possibly on the "secret" list)
  • Experimental objects such as high altitude balloons
I remember seeing a comprehensive list that ran to several pages, all of which were claimed to have been established as the cause of specific UFO reports.
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You left off...

- The moon reflected off a field of cabbages.

As some may know this was one explanation for a famous sighting that occurred over the sea.

And although the secret aircraft explanation is plausible why would secret aircraft be sent to fly and even be allowed to fly over populated areas and in busy areas with many civilian flights?
 
woof woof said:
You'd hope so.

I take it you haven't you had an interest in the subject for long and haven't seen decent vids?
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Much to the contray, I have and always will study anything that throws up unanswered questions on the ufo subject. The problem is so far I have been disappointed in claims that I have read about. Anything of an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence and I just haven't seen any. My interest probably started with Roswell, which I find implausible having read about it. I then read books written by Eric von Daniken and came to the conclusion he wanted to make money. Then there has been Nick Pope, that if anything removes all crediblity on the subject.
I also watch a lot of science related programs and videos and any time people in that field are asked about UFO's they never seem to have any positive to say on the existence of something unusual.
If someone could show me a good quality video that had been scrutinised for non tampering, then I would be one of the first to take interest.
 
woof woof said:
why would secret aircraft be sent to fly and even be allowed to fly over populated areas and in busy areas with many civilian flights?
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To quote a fast jet pilot I knew years ago: "have you any idea how hard it is to work out where you are at mach 2?"
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
Just a few plausible causes of UFO reports...
  • Cloud formations
  • Bird flocks
  • Insect concentrations
  • Atmospheric conditions such as refraction
  • Conventional objects in unexpected contexts such as kites and model aircraft
  • Random objects in the air such as plastic bags
  • Unconventional aircraft under test (possibly on the "secret" list)
  • Experimental objects such as high altitude balloons
I remember seeing a comprehensive list that ran to several pages, all of which were claimed to have been established as the cause of specific UFO reports.
Click to expand...

You missed out the most common cause. Venus.
 
Peter10d said:
Much to the contray, I have and always will study anything that throws up unanswered questions on the ufo subject. The problem is so far I have been disappointed in claims that I have read about. Anything of an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence and I just haven't seen any. My interest probably started with Roswell, which I find implausible having read about it. I then read books written by Eric von Daniken and came to the conclusion he wanted to make money. Then there has been Nick Pope, that if anything removes all crediblity on the subject.
I also watch a lot of science related programs and videos and any time people in that field are asked about UFO's they never seem to have any positive to say on the existence of something unusual.
If someone could show me a good quality video that had been scrutinised for non tampering, then I would be one of the first to take interest.
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If you've had an interest for some time I wonder why you haven't seen anything other than fuzzy blobs.

As I said, quality programming is hard to find these days but it's not impossible. If you do have an interest why rely on others to show you it when you could devote some time to finding some of the more credible ufo related material for yourself?

The question of credible scientist involvement is more difficult as anyone taking a serious interest stands at least the chance of losing credibility and along with it their funding so it's understandable that some wont touch this with a barge pole.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
To quote a fast jet pilot I knew years ago: "have you any idea how hard it is to work out where you are at mach 2?"
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If he didn't know he was no longer over the Atlantic (or area 51 or wherever they test secret stuff) and instead was within unsafe distance of civilian aircraft over a UK city I'd sake him. Wouldn't you?
 
woof woof said:
anyone taking a serious interest stands at least the chance of losing credibility and along with it their funding so it's understandable that some wont touch this with a barge pole.
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That could be because more or less everyone who claims to be "researching" this stuff has thrown Occam's Razor out of the window along with whatever healthy skepticism they had to begin with.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
That could be because more or less everyone who claims to be "researching" this stuff has thrown Occam's Razor out of the window along with whatever healthy skepticism they had to begin with.
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Some of the explanations are more incredible than the answer being aliens.

Clearly all ufo's are not aliens but that doesn't mean than no ufo's are aliens. There are some even more bizarre theories than aliens.

I don't know what the ufo's that aren't planets, clouds, insects or any of the rest are but if some are aliens why they do such seemingly strange and pointless things would be one of my first questions.
 
woof woof said:
If you've had an interest for some time I wonder why you haven't seen anything other than fuzzy blobs.

As I said, quality programming is hard to find these days but it's not impossible. If you do have an interest why rely on others to show you it when you could devote some time to finding some of the more credible ufo related material for yourself?

The question of credible scientist involvement is more difficult as anyone taking a serious interest stands at least the chance of losing credibility and along with it their funding so it's understandable that some wont touch this with a barge pole.
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I suppose when I was younger a part of me wanted it to be true that UFO's were of alien origin, but I have since came to the conclusion that they are likely to be one of the many explanations that Andrew has listed.
 
woof woof said:
Ok. Would you sack him?
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He was joking. I was passing on the joke. You seem to be determined to win an argument that I'm not party to.
 
woof woof said:
Some of the explanations are more incredible than the answer being aliens.

Clearly all ufo's are not aliens but that doesn't mean than no ufo's are aliens. There are some even more bizarre theories than aliens.

I don't know what the ufo's that aren't planets, clouds, insects or any of the rest are but if some are aliens why they do such seemingly strange and pointless things would be one of my first questions.
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This for me hits the nail on the head. If an alien civilisation had the technology to travel to Earth why would they just buzz around observing things without any attempt to communicate. I doubt given the technology required for such space flight that would then mean they would have the neccessary defence capability not to fear us or our weapons. Why be so secretive.
 
Peter10d said:
I suppose when I was younger a part of me wanted it to be true that UFO's were of alien origin, but I have since came to the conclusion that they are likely to be one of the many explanations that Andrew has listed.
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I have a slightly different view on ufo's... I really don't care what they are, I have no real preference. It's just an interesting area. I do think it'll be very strange if we are indeed alone but even if there are others out there that doesn't mean they come here or ever will.

The things on the list are all well and good but there seem to be instances in which the universe would be an even stranger place than it appears to be if they were the answer. Maybe you'd feel the same if you did some research instead of believing that the only evidence is fuzzy blobs
 
Peter10d said:
Much to the contray, I have and always will study anything that throws up unanswered questions on the ufo subject. The problem is so far I have been disappointed in claims that I have read about. Anything of an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence and I just haven't seen any. My interest probably started with Roswell, which I find implausible having read about it. I then read books written by Eric von Daniken and came to the conclusion he wanted to make money. Then there has been Nick Pope, that if anything removes all crediblity on the subject.
I also watch a lot of science related programs and videos and any time people in that field are asked about UFO's they never seem to have any positive to say on the existence of something unusual.
If someone could show me a good quality video that had been scrutinised for non tampering, then I would be one of the first to take interest.
Click to expand...

Von Daniken was popular in the 70s, but was outed as a charlatan who falsified or exaggerated most of his 'findings'. He was also imprisoned more than once for fraud.

I've never seen a UFO, and the closest I've been to a reported sighting was the Robert Taylor Incident in Livingston (1979). I was a cop in Livingston at the time, and I do remember that there was quite a fuss about it. I was, and remain, sceptical.
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
He was joking. I was passing on the joke. You seem to be determined to win an argument that I'm not party to.
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I'm not attempting to win an argument but you didn't make clear he was joking when you commented on the question I asked.

Jokes don't really answer the question but sacking any pilot of a secret craft who doesn't know where he is at mach 2 might cut down on ufo sightings if they are secret craft.
 
MartynK said:
Von Daniken was popular in the 70s, but was outed as a charlatan who falsified or exaggerated most of his 'findings'. He was also imprisoned more than once for fraud.

I've never seen a UFO, and the closest I've been to a reported sighting was the Robert Taylor Incident in Livingston (1979). I was a cop in Livingston at the time, and I do remember that there was quite a fuss about it. I was, and remain, sceptical.
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I saw one in the 60's. I was part of a group who saw it. What it was I'll never know but if it was a manufactured thing what was it and why was it doing it over my home town? If it wasn't a made thing then WFT? That's all interesting to me.
 
MartynK said:
Von Daniken was popular in the 70s, but was outed as a charlatan who falsified or exaggerated most of his 'findings'. He was also imprisoned more than once for fraud.

I've never seen a UFO, and the closest I've been to a reported sighting was the Robert Taylor Incident in Livingston (1979). I was a cop in Livingston at the time, and I do remember that there was quite a fuss about it. I was, and remain, sceptical.
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I don't recall that incident but I do remember there being stories about ufo sightings in Bathgate for a while, which is obviously not too far from Livingston.
 
woof woof said:
I saw one in the 60's. I was part of a group who saw it. What it was I'll never know but if it was a manufactured thing what was it and why was it doing it over my home town? If it wasn't a made thing then WFT? That's all interesting to me.
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That obviuosly explains your continual research into the subject. Assuming you have spent decades of research, have you formulated a strong opinion on what is going on?
 
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