So Tottenham burns!

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Briony said:
Yep, 1st hand from a text of friends in High Wycombe :shrug:
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did they say anything about what sort of trouble ? (theres still nothing on the news wire,google, or on the tvp twitter)
 
Marcel said:
The immediate remedy seems so so simple, yet no one has the balls to put their name to it.
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I think they might well do though Marcel, good PR for the goverment. Is anybody worried about the economic decline we are in at the moment? Thought not :D
 
damn right Bodders. People are blaming the current government, but it takes a while for this underclass to develop.
 
ziggy©;3915152 said:
IPCC say Mark Duggan did not fire at police officers (on BBC news now)

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/article/duggan-did-not-fire-at-officers/16316/
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No they don't, what the said was.....

Forensic officers have told the IPCC it may not be possible to "say for certain" whether the handgun found near Mr Duggan was fired.(Source: BBC)
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There's a BIG difference between not doing something and the police not being able to prove you did it......
 
Marcel said:
I really hope what has happened/is happening this week is making people sit up and notice at the first bolded line above. THIS is the society that we live in.
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Funnily enough I was having this exact same conversation with an ex-colleague earlier today. Calling these scum bags 'clients' is an affront to decent minded people everywhere and it's time the Met went back to being a police force rather than a police service.
 
ziggy©;3915152 said:
IPCC say Mark Duggan did not fire at police officers (on BBC news now)

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/news/article/duggan-did-not-fire-at-officers/16316/
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Well, whether he did or he didn't, if he was in possession of a gun and if the police either knew it (saw it) or had good reason to believe that he had it, whether he fired it or not makes no difference. The police are entitled to fire in self defence, and the possession of a gun by a known criminal amounts to self defence.

There is mention of a ricochet hitting the police radio. Given that the police are issued with hollow point bullets, I think it's highly unlikely that it hit Duggan first, it probably hit something hard at an obtruse angle
 
Garry Edwards said:
Well, whether he did or he didn't, if he was in possession of a gun and if the police either knew it (saw it) or had good reason to believe that he had it, whether he fired it or not makes no difference. The police are entitled to fire in self defence, and the possession of a gun by a known criminal amounts to self defence.
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I never suggested anywhere in my post that the police are not entitled to self defence or that Mark Duggan should not have been shot because he did not shoot first.
 
ziggy©;3915211 said:
So since the police cannot prove that he did fire at them we should just assume that he did? :thinking:
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like i said earlier, whether he did or not is irrelevent. police will fire if he went for the weapon, not wait until he fired it..
 
CT said:
LOL. Good thinking - but off the beam Adam. The original protest was by people aggrieved about the shooting of Duggan. It's now escalated to the point where it's nothing to do with that - in fact it was never really anything to do with that apart from a handful of people. It's just nationwide opportunist looting and madness by indolent youth - we need to stop looking for excuses for them.
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DemiLion said:
Nope, not radical, but possibly reading more into the situation than actually exists.

There have been organised flash points, but an awful lot of last night was pure spin off. Sunday saw coordinated & targeted looting gangs (as I mentioned a few pages ago), leaving Saturday's initial backlash riot aside, and Hackney to some extent was the same - civil disorder prompted to mask criminal activity. However the massed spread of what was effectively anarchy was a different matter entirely and seemed to be local gangs making the most of a situation to have some fun & 'nick stuff'. Remember that it's taken them 3 days to build up the nerve to trash their own turfs [sic] and I suspect that a lot of it was motivated by knowing the the Met would be overwhelmed for a third night on the trot.

There is a huge problem, but the solution lies after peace has been restored and what it will be I have no idea!
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I don't believe it. ..far to much organisation for low end criminals that usually shoot each other rather than agree to disagree .. However, they do have great respect for their suppliers and employers. Yes a great deal of opportunists criminals have taken part but they needed the ‘lead’ so to speak.

'If your down for making money we're about to go down hard in East London'

That’s one of the messages the bbc say was sent out last night.

Most gangs make money from drug dealing I’d suggest, So who has the numbers of gang leaders in their phone books? Their suppliers is who. ..
 
Marcel said:
This is an incredibly telling post by a police inspector (the bold emphasis is my own) :



Source : http://inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/the-next-48-hours/

The immediate remedy seems so so simple, yet no one has the balls to put their name to it.
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I'm not their biggest fan at times but your heart has to go out to them. We've said it over and over again in this thread that they seem scared to act because they know they will be served up on a platter by the government when the press frenzy starts.

How they deal with these people day in and day out I have no idea, is it any wonder that once in a blue moon one of them lashes out.

As for the announcement by the IPCC, I couldn't care less. He had a gun, it was loaded - you play with fire you get burnt.

We need to see support for our police in line with that shown to our troops.
 
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BBC News - 30 people went through Highbury Corner Mags Court and because the magistrates can only dish out a max 6 months they have sent them to Crown Court where they can be given a max of 10 years for one count of domestic burglary.
 
DemiLion said:
Correction - further info shows that it's Newham, Prince Regents Lane.
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Also Green street and East ham high street. .. in-fact its mass hysteria in East London since about 4pm ...most of it is closed, shutters down hours ago.

Damn I wanna see them walloped tonight As an ex soldier can I just say to all you services tonight… do it well guys, however tired you are we’re depending on you.
 
this thread is filling up quicker than I can bloody read it.

I have the solution though!

Release the Polar Bears from London Zoo, and let them prowl London!
 
neil_g said:
like i said earlier, whether he did or not is irrelevent. police will fire if he went for the weapon, not wait until he fired it..
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I am not disagreeing with what the police did. Carrying a gun is of course just stupid even if you dont intend to use it. The end result is usually getting shot yourself.

My point is that clearly what was being reported previously was not true. There would have been people who saw what really happened at the scene. These same people would have seen a completely different story being reported in media. They would tell their friends that the police are covering up what really happened, their friends will tell their other friends and so on.

With the amount of people using blackberries and iphones these days, it wouldnt take long for all hell to break loose - like it is now.
 
ziggy©;3915283 said:
....Carrying a gun is of course just stupid even if you dont intend to use it.
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Can you please explain then, why you would carry a gun if you didn't plan to use it?.:cuckoo:
 
ziggy© said:
I am not disagreeing with what the police did. Carrying a gun is of course just stupid even if you dont intend to use it. The end result is usually getting shot yourself.

My point is that clearly what was being reported previously was not true. There would have been people who saw what really happened at the scene. These same people would have seen a completely different story being reported in media. They would tell their friends that the police are covering up what really happened, their friends will tell their other friends and so on.

With the amount of people using blackberries and iphones these days, it wouldnt take long for all hell to break loose - like it is now.
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It doesnt matter if the police and media covering it up, it doesn't justify this
 
AFC said:
Can you please explain then, why you would carry a gun if you didn't plan to use it?.:cuckoo:
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Especially if there was a bullet already in the magazine and the gun is classed as an illegal firearm...
 
all the reports i can find are newspaper reports with eye witnesses, cant find anywhere the police saying that he shot at them and they responded? the Metro article i linked too is the oldest one i can find
 
mrjames said:
definitely a bit of trouble in the streets of wolverhampton, my guess is a handful of rioters and about 90% normal people looking to be 'part of the fun'
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There is a Police Inspector tweeting from the town centre, small pockets of trouble, being dealt with quickly.

Some of the lads on a football forum are debating going into town to give the looters a good hiding.
 
AFC said:
Can you please explain then, why you would carry a gun if you didn't plan to use it?.:cuckoo:
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Some idiots carry guns just to show off as it make them look "bad". Some carry guns to protect themselves from others carrying guns.

Catdaddy said:
Especially if there was a bullet already in the magazine and the gun is classed as an illegal firearm...
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I was not refering to Mark Duggan specifically. I was refering to carrying a gun in general.
 
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You carry a loaded illegal gun, prepare to be shot by the police. I don't see that as a problem.
 
ziggy©;3915326 said:
Some idiots carry guns just to show off as it make them look "bad". Some carry guns to protect themselves from others carrying guns.
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There's still intent there. An intent to inflict fear of death. And if there was live rounds in the gun, that's a serious intent to use it.
 
BBC News - Miss Selfridge shop set on fire in Manchester City centre.
 
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