So Tottenham burns!

[neil_g]

There is going to have to be a cleverer, deeper solution.

tear gas. thats big and clever.

 

[Davec223]

tear gas. thats big and clever.

and batton rounds.

 

[Chris Primadona]

My Facebook update.
"I can't help thinking the problems in London wouldn't happen here in Scotland. I would like to think the people of the community would nip it in the bud, smeeto style!"

 

[big soft moose]

Where did I say this?

well theres this

The whole case reeked of police concocting a story.

and this

If you treat people brutally then don't be surprised when they react brutally.

and this

It doesn't sound like this whole situation was created from the police being too lenient anyway, it sounds as if being from an ethnic minority and living on that estate was enough justification to be suspected of a crime.

and this

When you have so many people who distrust the police down there due to direct dealings with them I don't find it surprising their suspicions and angers are aroused when these shootings happen.

and not forgetting this - poor mark duggan he only pointed his illegally held firearm at the police because he felt threatened

That is a truism though, pointing the gun at them would be justified .

and a lot more besides which i cant be bothered to go and get - read your own posts then tell me honestly you're not blaming this on the police rather than the rioters

 

[big soft moose]

As of tonight there seem to be lots of little scrotes and probably not enough force to crush them immediately wherever they rear up.
.

theres several battalion of infantry and armour sitting on bases less than an hour from london - and while the scrote might have the numbers the army has the edge in firepower

 

[Yves Geza]

theres several battalion of infantry and armour sitting on bases less than an hour from london - and while the scrote might have the numbers the army has the edge in firepower

That's probably the answer then! It solved all our problems in Londonderry in 1972!

 

[Flash In The Pan]

My Facebook update.
"I can't help thinking the problems in London wouldn't happen here in Scotland. I would like to think the people of the community would nip it in the bud, smeeto style!"

Plus it's always raining and no-one wants to riot in the rain....

 

[Darthchaffinch]

I read that the protest only turned violent after the police batoned a 16-year old girl to the ground. Also read disturbing reports of Duggan being dragged out of the taxi and then shot whilst he was on the ground. Don't know why everyone automatically believes the police/media's side of the story.

Why is that disturbing to you? He was a well-known drug dealer and member of fledgline yardie gang!!!

I'm sick of this country's attitude to responsibility, punishment, and everything else and am glad I'm moving to sweden! :razz:

 

[dcash29]

tear gas. thats big and clever.

I'd prefer something that could knock them out where they stand

riots in Clapham now

 

[malo50]

Laudrup, you postulate with the unbearable smugness of a man who's just laid his own laminate flooring. I would be grateful if you would just answer me one question please.

Why did you attack Amy Winehouse with such vitriol saying her demise was all her own fault because of the choice she made, yet you won't attack a man who chose to carry a gun,( or a girl who chose to throw stones at the police or the people who have chosen to destroy communities, businesses and lives) with the same savage joy?

 

[Lynton]

wow - Mark- some cracking pics..........

 

[big soft moose]

That's probably the answer then! It solved all our problems in Londonderry in 1972!

we better not get into the NI situation - my first serious girlfreind was blown up by an IRA bomb so I have absolutely zero sympathy for them, and I wouldnt shed a tear if the army had machine gunned them in the streets then bulldozed the falls road - but like i said lets not get into that its political and I dont want to get my ass banned.

For the record though i wasnt actually suggesting that we send the army in with live rounds (well at least not unless non lethal means fail), several battalions of hard ass soilders would turn the tables on the rioters even if they were only armed with night sticks and sheilds , and the armour was used for ramming through road blocks etc

 

[big soft moose]

Laudrup, you postulate with the unbearable smugness of a man who's just laid his own laminate flooring.

great turn of phrase

 

[Jez2011]

Did you read the article?

You were saying the police were doing nothing wrong, merely following procedure. They obviously weren't, hence the apology.

 

[Jez2011]

Why is that disturbing to you? He was a well-known drug dealer and member of fledgline yardie gang!!!

So you think summary execution is preferable to arrest, trial, etc? I suppose it'd be a saving for the taxpayer.

 

[Lynton]

only one thing I am struggling with so far on this thread.... is that I accidentally said "bloody" in a thread a while back (thinking it was acceptable under swearyfilter rules) and after a bit of heated debate with a "new" mod, though took my 24 hours on the naughty step like a man........... however, a few people (one notably) keep cropping up on this thread, with far worse however the mods/admins let it fly.... I assume it's for entertainment factor.....however, why is "he" still here?

 

[Flash In The Pan]

You were saying the police were doing nothing wrong, merely following procedure. They obviously weren't, hence the apology.

They were just following procedure, the matter had been passed to the IPCC, it was just that the Met were slow in passing on the request for details from the family, that is what they apologised for....

 

[gingerweasel]

Come on now, you know I'm not talking about this kind of stuff (which we can all agree are serious issues). I'm talking about prejudice and discrimination, deep class divisions, lack of access to affordable education, and so on. I don't claim to have any solutions to these problems, but for too long they've been swept under the carpet.

I'm not having a go at you mate but I really get fed up of this kind of comment being rolled out everytime something happens in this country and being used as an excuse to justify appalling behaviour.

Being poor isn't an excuse for criminal behaviour. If you don't like your situation in life then we live in a country where you can pull yourself up and make something of yourself. People who moan about this kind of thing need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and do something about it. We are all privileged to live in a great country that provides us with opportunities to improve our lives, free education, no health care payments to worry about, benefits to help keep you fed and warm if you fall into a bad situation. The government provides the means for those who want to take the opportunity.

As for prejudice again I'm always hearing it but can honestly say I've never seen it. Sure you'll get some uneducated yob throwing around racial slurs but I've never seen someone in a work situation be treated any different because of their race or colour or denied access to a promotion or educational opportunities. I'm sure it happens but I'm fed up of hearing it said as if it's everywhere. Have I just led a sheltered life?

Part of the problem with this country is how touchy freely we've gotten, always scared of offending someone. Poor prisoners can't go without a TV, poor prisoners can't be denied the right to vote, poor man was killed by the big nasty police force and all he did was shoot at them.

These thugs have no excuse for their behaviour, they should be dealt with then sent to a real prison not the holiday camps we've built.



Sorry, just gets my goat, no offence to you at all.

 

[Yves Geza]

we better not get into the NI situation - my first serious girlfreind was blown up by an IRA bomb so I have absolutely zero sympathy for them, and I wouldnt shed a tear if the army had machine gunned them in the streets then bulldozed the falls road - but like i said lets not get into that its political and I dont want to get my ass banned.

I presume your girlfriend was blown up by the IRA after the army fired on civilians and recruited a whole generation to the IRA.

This isn't anything like the same political situation, but the injudicious application of force will worsen rather than solve the situation. Particularly since the State can't apply force to every shopfront and High Street

Just listening to Tottenham business owner Trevor Reeves, his business, opened in 1875 by his grandfather is now a burnt-out shell, his brother is distraught ... asked what has caused this ... "mindless thuggery", without any hesitation.

FWIW, Reeves furniture is in Croydon and my erstwhile friend Trevor Reeves was British Rallycross Champion in about 1980, beating Jenson Button's father. It is very sad to see the destruction of Reeves Corner.

 

[big soft moose]

just following paul lewis on twitter - hackney has now deteriorated into virtual civil war with 100s of turkish men attacking other predominantly black rioters with bricks, chains and barricades - "we are protecting our homes, this is war" says one turkish man

iMO its fair to say in hackney at least that the police have lost control of the streets (tho i am in no way blaming them) - like i said this needs more force to keep the different sides apart , another argument for drafting in some troops

 

[kelack]

only one thing I am struggling with so far on this thread.... is that I accidentally said "bloody" in a thread a while back (thinking it was acceptable under swearyfilter rules) and after a bit of heated debate with a "new" mod, though took my 24 hours on the naughty step like a man........... however, a few people (one notably) keep cropping up on this thread, with far worse however the mods/admins let it fly.... I assume it's for entertainment factor.....however, why is "he" still here?

It wasn't just with that word, it was the whole tone of your post that you posted. It was reported, I acted on it and you jumped down my throat. It was nothing to do with bypassing the sweary filters or anything like that. And you know that.

If you feel someone is being offensive then you know as well as any other to press that rtm button and it will be dealt with

 

[footman]

An update from my daughter in Clapham, young people walking down her road loaded with loot from the shops. She also saw 4x4's pull up, kids load loot into the cars which then drive off.
Kids then appear to return to High Street to continue looting, could be organised!
She is still worried with her partner stuck in the West End and she's alone. I've advised her to draw the curtains and stay away from the windows.

 

[big soft moose]

I presume your girlfriend was blown up by the IRA after the army fired on civilians and recruited a whole generation to the IRA.

actually i think you'll find the IRA were there first - and i still subscribe to the theory that on bloody sunday troops were fired on from the crowd and cyncially provoked into returning fire by an organisation which doesnt give a **** about its own people - but like i said i dont want to get into this.

This isn't anything like the same political situation, but the injudicious application of force will worsen rather than solve the situation. .

I agree but a judicious use of targetted force to break up riots and aprehend ring leaders is needed - before it all spirals totally out of control - i mean look at hackney - are the police really equiped to deal with what has essentially turned into a peace keeping mission

 

[Yves Geza]

just following paul lewis on twitter - hackney has now deteriorated into virtual civil war with 100s of turkish men attacking other predominantly black rioters with bricks, chains and barricades - "we are protecting our homes, this is war" says one turkish man

iMO its fair to say in hackney at least that the police have lost control of the streets (tho i am in no way blaming them) - like i said this needs more force to keep the different sides apart , another argument for drafting in some troops

The backlash is pretty well inevitable, isn't it? So why do you want to spend money on "Government thugs" if the local thugs will do the job for you?

i still subscribe to the theory that on bloody sunday troops were fired on from the crowd and cyncially provoked into returning fire by an organisation which doesnt give a **** about its own people - but like i said i dont want to get into this.

I and every other taxpayer got ripped off a fortune for the Saville Report, but they were pretty thorough and that wasn't quite their explanation of events ... but let's not get into that any further.

 

[neil_g]

it sounds like large groups of terks are trying to fight back againsts the youths in hackney.. sounds like its all decending into further chaos..

edit - too slow.

 

[Musicman]

Just listening to Tottenham business owner Trevor Reeves, his business, opened in 1875 by his grandfather is now a burnt-out shell, his brother is distraught ... asked what has caused this ... "mindless thuggery", without any hesitation.

Croydon, not Tottenham.

Reeves Corner is a local landmark. Friends of mine have worked there.

Gutted it's gone.

 

[Keith W]

Once again I would like the extend my thanks and gratitude to the men and women of the police who have been putting there lives on the line to protect my family, friends, other members of the public and property - You have my utmost respect

 

[gingerweasel]

it sounds like large groups of terks are trying to fight back againsts the youths in hackney.. sounds like its all decending into further chaos..

edit - too slow.

I don't blame them for trying to protect their property and livelyhoods, I doubt the police have the numbers now that things are quickly escalating.

No doubt the press will jump on this as a race war, when it's just a case of protecting what you've worked hard for.

 

[Laudrup]

well theres this:

The whole case reeked of police concocting a story.

Which was in relation to Harry Stanley being shot for carrying a table leg which has nothing to do with Duggan.

If you treat people brutally then don't be surprised when they react brutally.

Which was in relation to the supposed 16 year old girl that was attacked that caused the mob to flare up.

It doesn't sound like this whole situation was created from the police being too lenient anyway, it sounds as if being from an ethnic minority and living on that estate was enough justification to be suspected of a crime.

Which was in relation to the statistic of black people stopped and searched and several members of the public of that estate saying the same thing.

When you have so many people who distrust the police down there due to direct dealings with them I don't find it surprising their suspicions and angers are aroused when these shootings happen.

This is correct, a lot have had negative dealings with the police and wouldn't trust them to give an accurate account of what happened. It could have been a supposed gangster like Mark Duggan shot or innocent Joe Bloggs.

and not forgetting this - poor mark duggan he only pointed his illegally held firearm at the police because he felt threatened

We don't know if he did or didn't, and we can't ask him so we are relying on people telling us who a lot of people down there don't trust anyway.

and a lot more besides which i cant be bothered to go and get - read your own posts then tell me honestly you're not blaming this on the police rather than the rioters

The rioters are guilty by definition. I'd happily see them sprayed with indelible ink and rounded up at a later date. But as for turning the streets of the UK into a free for all with live ammunition, no thanks. We don't live in Iraq.

 

[TCR4x4]

Anyone say Civil war??

Turks against Blacks.. I imagine thats just the beginning.

This is how it starts, and unless the Police really start policing and not standing around taking photos, things are going to get grim.
I somehow dont think the Turks will show the same restraint the Police seem to be.

 

[neil_g]

I don't blame them for trying to protect their property and livelyhoods, I doubt the police have the numbers now that things are quickly escalating.

No doubt the press will jump on this as a race war, when it's just a case of protecting what you've worked hard for.

i dont blame them at all, at the moment theyre the only ones being proactive against the thugs.. :shake:

 

[Davec223]

The rioters are guilty by definition. I'd happily see them sprayed with indelible ink and rounded up at a later date. But as for turning the streets of the UK into a free for all with live ammunition, no thanks. We don't live in Iraq.

The trouble is if they are not dealt with quickly and by the looks of things forcibly, we may as well live in Iraq as the cities will be burnt out shells. and that will totally screw our already fragile economy which according to some on here will then cause more problems as unemployment goes up there are more lower class people, who at the end of the day," it is not there fault they are looting, its societies fault"
use force and use it now it is the only way that this can be dealt with.

 

[big soft moose]

Anyone say Civil war??

Turks against Blacks.. I imagine thats just the beginning.

This is how it starts, and unless the Police really start policing and not standing around taking photos, things are going to get grim.
I somehow dont think the Turks will show the same restraint the Police seem to be.

IMO the police have their hands tied - there arent enough of them and they arent allowed to use water cannon, rubber bullets, tear gas etc

I agree they need to be let off the leash to sort this out but its not really fair to accuse them of standing arround taking photos

 

[jimmyb]

Definitely!!!

This has nowt to do with race or religion. If it's about the guy getting shot then these mindless scumbags need a wakeup call!!!

If we are to believe what's been said in the press, the guy had a gun AND opened fire on police. If members of the local community feel that he was unfairly dealt with then we have a HUGE problem which is a result of the namby-pamby hug a hoodie culture that's been evident since the 90s.

I'm 34 years old, I did most of my growing up in the 80s. I was taught that if I did bad stuff I'd probably end up in prison and be fed bread and water. If I misbehaved at school I'd be dealt with by the teachers, who'd then tell my parents and they'd punish me too. As an example, in infants' school if you kicked anyone you had your shoes taken off you and they were hung by their shoelaces from the ceiling and you didn't go out at lunch and "playtime".

May seem a little Draconian by today's standards but it taught an important lesson which is it certain actions have certain consequences!

Outside of school I knew that there were lots of people in the community who knew my parents and/or family and they wouldn't hesitate to tell my parents if I was up to no good.

It just seems to me that this has been pretty much wiped out of society, people either don't give a flying one or are too scared to report bad behaviour.

My niece is 12 and on the whole not a bad kid but I often get "Uncle Russell, Mum shouted at me and hurt my feelings", when you delve a little bit deeper it turns out she's run up an £80 mobile phone bill but that (in her eyes) doesn't justify my sister in law reading her the riot act. Transfer this "hurt feelings" nonsense to the scrotes that now roam the streets free to do what they want and they feel that they're above the law. Add in non-Caucasians and the race & discrimination card gets played too!!!

I think it's simple, if you really don't like the way this country's run and think it's perfectly acceptable to shoot at police and then go on a rampage destroying homes and businesses........ GO AND FIND SOMEWHERE ELSE TO LIVE!!!

Well said

 

[Treesie]

Where are the parents of all these kids?? As a mum of two adult sons I'd be the wrath from hell if they were my sons!

Community service.... a waste of time. Not only is it moving around Lonon i.e. Lewisham, Croydon..... now rumblings in Birmingham! I have a friend in that area of Croydon locked inside her home scared to death, another close friend a black cab driver in London who dare not go to work tonight. What about the poor people in the buses & vehicles in Hackney today. Their welfare wasn't at the forefront of these youths thoughts were they.

This is not about the young lad who was shot. Its about blatant thugery, violence and theft. These youths feel they are owed a living, they don't see a future of what they might have in the future so they go take it off someone else! No-one has taught them they have to work hard to get something in life ... its is do-able if you make the effort!

Credit goes out to the few lads not involved who were going round moving burning obsticles out of the way so innocent people could get out of the way.

There are only two solutions, the first being radical;
Outnumber the rioters with joe public to side with the police
Bring back press-ganging and national service. Teach them some bl**dy respect and disipline.

I'll get off my soapbox my before I fall off it in fury!

 

[fracster]

I don't think women can be arrested for rape either, it would be sexual assault I think due to the lack of a penis.

Mod edit: no personal insults please

 

[srichards]

Hopefully the rioters getting a good kicking by locals will make think twice and let them understand the consequences of their actions. Much more effective than some slap on the wrist from a court in several months time.

 

[gingerweasel]

Is anyone listening to the nonsense Ken Livingston is spouting on BBC News? He's basically saying these riots are because young people feel detached from society because they have no educational prospects because of the fee changes.

You're right Ken, these yobs look like the University types. If only we had an educational system where they could go through University without having to be rich and pay up front. That way they could have an opportunity at a good paying job, oh wait we do!

 

[Flash In The Pan]

quoted insult removed

 

[Davec223]

Mod edit: no personal insults please.

Ade, dont hold back, say what you mean.