So Tottenham burns!

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footman said:
These riots pop up in France from time to time and according to my French family they are swiftly dealt with by deploying the CRS.

Do we have such a dedicated force in the UK?
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

We can offer a strongly-worded letter to The Guardian, would that do?
 
dcash29 said:
To all the tea and cake brigade on here, why dont you go and sort it out. Lets see how far you get:wave:
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rofl - yes all they need is love, and encouragement, lets build them a lovely youth club with some xboxes

what do you mean they've nicked all the xboxes and sold them to buy drugs, assaulted the staff and burned the centre down
 
Marcel said:
Such a wide sweeping statistic, it means absolutely nothing.

Take a weeks worth of Section 60 searches in the middle of Cheshire, and see A: How many were conducted, how many were black.

Then take a weeks worth of Section 60 searches but from the middle of, say Hackney.

What do you get? The above statistic which means sod all.

That's the problem. People hung up on statistics.
If there are alot of black people in a high crime area then yes, theyre more likely to be stopped and searched. That's not racism that's mathematics.

Just like when there's a rape you don't see many women being arrested do you?
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:plusone: had just got to reading that far when TP went down........... basically you can make stats do whatever you want them to......... :shrug:
 
Lynton said:
:plusone: had just got to reading that far when TP went down........... basically you can make stats do whatever you want them to......... :shrug:
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And me :plusone: Well said, I've worked in statistics for 10 years now and get so annoyed when I see something like 60% of blah blah blah.. but then not set in any context.

There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics
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footman said:
These riots pop up in France from time to time and according to my French family they are swiftly dealt with by deploying the CRS.

Do we have such a dedicated force in the UK?
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In 2005 they rioted for 20 nights straight and 9000 vehicles were incinerated. A state of emergency was declared.
 
This might seem flipant but I mean no disrespect by this....but The Smiths song 'Panic' is errely close if the romours are true.

Panic on the streets of London
Panic on the streets of Birmingham
I wonder to myself
Could life ever be sane again ?
The Leeds side-streets that you slip down
......
But there's Panic on the streets of Carlisle??????


Seriously though this is getting really dangerous, someone will be killed and it's not going to be a rioter but some poor sod in the wrong place at the wriong time.
 
onona said:
I don't believe that violence is a solution in this case; all it will do is create an even greater divide between the police and the people, and possibly turn even more people to the cause of those who originally marched on Saturday. Before I moved to the UK, I lived in the States and before that I lived in South Africa (where I was born). In both SA and the USA, police use deadly force against criminals on a regular basis, and while it may stop those individuals in the short term, it causes far more longterm issues.
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I don't think any reasonable person is suggesting extreme violence, however the violence of the water canon, tear gas, arrest and suitable punishment is what most civilised people want in these cases.
It cannot be right that ordinary people, shop owners and their employees be made to suffer in order for these 'scum' to have the freedom to promote their anarchistic views.
 
Following @PaulLewis on Twitter right now, some harrowing stuff.
 
Laudrup said:
In 2005 they rioted for 20 nights straight and 9000 vehicles were incinerated. A state of emergency was declared.
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quite a state of emergency was declared and the CRS did some serious head knocking to bring the riots to an end, including the use of water canon, rubber bullets and tear gas

they didnt all stand arround telling each other that they needed to understand why violent little scrotes were rioting (incidentally the answer is because they are violent little scrotes)

i dont know where you live but it would be interesting to see if you would be so pc and tolerant if your car was upside down and burning in the middle of the street and your wife and kids were afraid to go out - i somehow doubt it (you'd probably be on here bleating about how the police werent doing enough to protect you)
 
hmmmmmm.........:suspect:

Slimbert ([self appointed] Head of the Norfolk Mafia) was in N London early part of the weekend, and then Leeds. :eek:

And the riots are in N London and Leeds........... :shrug: :exit:
 
It shows ow far the PC brigade have gone when they are saying its ok arresting rioters, but then all the paperwork keeps the pc's off the streets for a couple of hours.
Whilst not condoning violence - a bit of tear gas and a few baton charges are surely in order?
 
People will die and the stupid little scrotes that have decided to this under a vague pretence will end up with a massive right wing reaction. Clegg was on about there being riots if tories got in. Conveniently forgets there are only cuts due to incompetent labour government.
 
No but srichards' post above is a bit too political :p
 
its got nothing to do with cuts or political parties - just a bunch of cretins running riot
 
BBC News 24 has said that Cameron is coming home and holding a COBRA meeting tomorrow.
 
onona said:
What a truly vile and uncivilised idea. Do you really want to sink to the level of the looters? There are other ways of dealing with them without resorting to potentially fatal violence.

Honestly, some of the opinions in this thread really make me sad. Let's not return to the Dark Ages.
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Not at all, but why should the criminals be the ones who are always thought of first when the victims come second. Its a ****ed up way of dealing with a problem. Victims come first Criminals co£e Last in my book and should be dealt with with an iron fist batton rounds, tear gas for all of them, although daisylindsays idea had gone through my mind.
 
Apparently the problems have spread to Birmingham now.
 
As has been said, the time has been and gone to get heavy handed.
It's absolutely clear that a softly softly approach just does not work.

Get in there, crack a few skulls. A simplistic view of course, but the overall idea is what is needed IMO.
Tell the Police Service to put the 'guidelines' down, and send in the Police Force.

Not sure why any of this is the PM's fault. It's no one's fault other than the brainless morons actually out there on the streets (and no Laudrup, I don't mean the police ;))
 
AFC said:
BBC News 24 has said that Cameron is coming home and holding a COBRA meeting tomorrow.
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Ah! .... So that's why he's been so quiet in this thread .... Do you think he will he be wearing Pink for the meet? :D
 
gramps said:
I don't think any reasonable person is suggesting extreme violence,
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If you read back to my original post, I was responding to a person who was suggesting that the police be given the ability to shoot looters. I personally found that suggestion abhorrent, as I believe that violence causes more problems than it solves.

It cannot be right that ordinary people, shop owners and their employees be made to suffer in order for these 'scum' to have the freedom to promote their anarchistic views.
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I agree with you; what these mindless hordes are doing is sickening and the fact that they're harming members of their own communities makes it all the more disgusting.

But at the same time, we can no longer ignore background elements factors that lie at the root of a lot of this social unrest. I see a lot of snide remarks here about "armchair liberals" and "the tea and cake brigade" - but the fact is that most people do not just randomly turn into criminals from one minute to the next. When you look at these hooligans, there's almost always a long line of problems, starting from poverty and poor parenting which leads to a lack of discipline, education and a respect for others, leading up to their criminality. Now, if people want to go and label me as a bleeding heart liberal for saying this, then they can go ahead - but the fact remains that these types of people are not going to disappear from society until the cyclical root causes of social inequality are addressed. It's no coincidence that these issues invariably flare up in the most deprived areas of cities - we cannot ignore this. The UK has a really, really difficult task ahead with its very deep social issues.

I feel very sorry for the police officers having to deal with all this mayhem, but I sincerely hope that they do not end up resorting to violent methods, as those are likely to simply further stoke hatred and bitterness.
 
Leeds now too.. This is just going to spread and spread as the lowlife scum see they can get away with it..
This could be stopped swiftly and effectively, but no, let them destroy the place, its thier human right after all....
 
Marcel said:
Tell the Police Service to put the 'guidelines' down, and send in the Police Force.
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this - and back them up with troops, water canon and armor - just like we would have done for a belfast riot a few years ago
 
there's a few angry looking alsatians on BBC news 24, looking as if they are feeling a bit peckish..............

I am genuinely surprised, that it's not the what 3rd or 4th night of it, and still they are getting away with it.

Man up! Time to rewrite the PC rulebook and crack some heads! Having a discussion forum with perpertrators and victims is NOT the way forwards. A bit of pain and hurt to make them think is.
 
onona said:
starting from poverty and poor parenting which leads to a lack of discipline, education and a respect for others, leading up to their criminality. .
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not to mention an over pc justice system that worries more about criminals rights than those of the victim and doesnt punish or deter crime effectively

people were poor in the twenties and thirties and didnt resort to this kind of thing - because they new the difference between right and wrong, and feared the consequences of law breaking

these days there arent any consequences for minor theivery which leads them to more theivery and bad behaviour
 
I bet the BNP et al are rubbing their hands in delight!
 
onona said:
the fact remains that these types of people are not going to disappear from society until the cyclical root causes of social inequality are addressed.
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I thought we already have that addressed, e.g.

  • My daughter and son-in-law couldn't get a flat after they married because it was given to a young unmarried mother - it's common knowledge that all you need to do to get a home is get pregnant.
  • Schools can't do winners and losers anymore, everyone has to be winners, helps them adjust to the 'real world' ... get it by looting.
  • Scroungers can get mega-bucks for their 13 kids and 'council' accommodation in Chelsea, whilst pensioners can't get home care.

I could go on but I'm sure you get my drift - I'm all for social equality - let everyone stand on their own two feet like I have to do.
 
gramps said:
I thought we already have that addressed, e.g.

  • My daughter and son-in-law couldn't get a flat after they married because it was given to a young unmarried mother - it's common knowledge that all you need to do to get a home is get pregnant.
  • Schools can't do winners and losers anymore, everyone has to be winners, helps them adjust to the 'real world' ... get it by looting.
  • Scroungers can get mega-bucks for their 13 kids and 'council' accommodation in Chelsea, whilst pensioners can't get home care.

I could go on but I'm sure you get my drift - I'm all for social equality - let everyone stand on their own two feet like I have to do.
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quoted for truth
 
Seeing as this is meant to be a photography forum:

1.

Peckham Riots _ No Free Use_ See Exif for contact details-2118.jpg by DemiLion Photography, on Flickr

2.

Peckham Riots _ No Free Use_ See Exif for contact details-2187.jpg by DemiLion Photography, on Flickr

3.

Peckham Riots _ No Free Use_ See Exif for contact details-2189.jpg by DemiLion Photography, on Flickr

4.

Peckham Riots _ No Free Use_ See Exif for contact details-2252.jpg by DemiLion Photography, on Flickr


London has gone feral:

Peckham
Lewisham
Clapham Junction
Croydon
Bromley

and that's just south.

My iPhone was grabbed & pulling out to file was almost as, if not more dangerous than being there. I've endexed for the night as it's just too dangerous to have camera kit in any area. Similar reports are coming in from photographers across London.


This has absolutely nothing to do with last weeks shooting, it's plain old fashioned mayhem.

The building that went up was a baby linen shop!
 
big soft moose said:
not to mention an over pc justice system that worries more about criminals rights than those of the victim and doesnt punish or deter crime effectively
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I honestly don't understand why people say stuff like this - in what way are the rights of criminals considered more important than those of the victim? A bunch of people have now said that, and honestly it's the kind of thing I expect to read on The Daily Mail. Please explain to me how this is the case, because I really don't get it. I'm also genuinely curious to hear your ideas for punishing and especially deterring crime.

I'm curious, have you ever lived in any other countries? Particularly countries with very, very serious crime rates? I grew up in a country where 25% of the male population have admitted to raping women at some point - do you know how many of them are brought to justice? A minority so small that it's not even worth mentioning. At least here in the UK, criminals are often caught and put on trial; while I feel that sentences here are often a bit more lenient than I'd personally consider suitable, at least they're generally dealt with, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for a lot of other places in this world.
 
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