So Tottenham burns!

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Yardbent said:
I believe during the looting after Hurricane Katrina, the Police/National Guard/Army whoever, were instructed to shoot any looters

i see no reason not to apply the same decision in the UK

the trouble here is - no Politician would sign THAT order
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Shooting people dead for stealing a mobile phone? No politician would endorse that because it is so backwards it would be seen as too extreme in Pyongyang.
 
Laudrup said:
Put them to work rebuilding or cleaning or working for the community, why should they be locked up and cost £40k a year when they could be paying it back?
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Not very original though is it?

A mate of mine ( in IT)was made redundant and was signing on . He was offered the job of teaching prisoners nearing release how to write letters and CVs etc. He had no option but to accept or lose his benefit.
Twice each week he had to take a classroom of unruly louts who had no interest-just took the ****, and after a few weeks the job just made him really ill. He was totally incapable of controlling these guys.

The idea is great, but in practice it's who's is administering these schemes which is the worrying bit, and basically offenders just laugh at them.
 
Would it be controversial of me to suggest chain-gangs under armed guard for prisoners?
 
Catdaddy said:
How many scared and concerned law-abiding citizens should have to stay at home (assuming they still have one) for fear of their own safety?
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Well I know of 5 right now that are doing that. Thankfully my family arrived home safe and are staying in. They're in Lewisham :(
 
Bernie174 said:
Hacker

For repeatedly making me do silly building entries, GIT! Those long shields are heavy!
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Ha Ha! I remember when we were developing those techniques and we had instructors storming a house with other instructors inside, many was the time we would have a fridge or cooker land on us - it certainly taught us to keep the shields tight and execute a fast entry.

It was also very interesting when they made up a serial of the instructors and we were sent to the more 'volatile' situations. Because we had good leadership (our direct bosses) situations were dealt with very quickly and often the senior brass were ignored whilst we got on with doing what we had to do.

After watching the news this evening I've been muttering (ranting) at the TV as to what they should be doing - much to the amusement of my wife and kids. :lol:
 
Laudrup said:
Yeah it would make me sit up and think I was living in Yemen.
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tell you what why dont you actually go live in yemen - not only will you not be able to get a net connection (a major plus for the rest of us) but you'll also be able to see what it's really like to have a corrupt and oppresive police force

then you might appreciate the british police a tad more
 
The23rdman said:
As Gurdjieff said, "Fairness? Decency? How can you expect fairness or decency on a planet of sleeping people?" By this he meant that the very vast majority of people (including on this forum) are functioning at a very basic mammalian emotional-territorial back-brain level.

We have the ability to think yet the very vast majority never ever have a truly original thought in their lives. This is not a judgement, simply a fact. What we call thought is simply conditioned quasi-thought - machinations of the mind on some kind of repeating loop. Any time spent meditating or practising any method of re-establishing control of the mind/body such as yoga or Qigong will demonstrate to oneself the utter nonsense that goes through our supposedly intelligent minds unabated on a daily basis.

Until we reach a critical point in our evolutionary development where the majority are utilising their frontal lobes as a matter of course we'll continue to stumble around like children poking our hands in the fire.
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That's it then, not guns, not tear gas, not water cannon, not prison ... compulsory yoga is the answer.
I can see it now ... High Street, Battersea ... the crowd surge forward, rocks and fire bombs hailing down ... then the megaphone ... "Ok, this is the police ... assume the lotus position!".
 
gramps said:
That's it then, not guns, not tear gas, not water cannon, not prison ... compulsory yoga is the answer.
I can see it now ... High Street, Battersea ... the crowd surge forward, rocks and fire bombs hailing down ... then the megaphone ... "Ok, this is the police ... assume the lotus position!".
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Lol!
 
Marcel said:
Would it be controversial of me to suggest chain-gangs under armed guard for prisoners?
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sounds like a plan to me

"breaking rocks in the hot sun ...
I fought the law, and the law won"

I've got a whole bunch of nasty slimy ditches down here that we can't afford to clear out...
 
To be honest Hacker, the worst of it was the feeding at Feltham. That made the wooden blocks look tasty. Still, always fun to chuck them at the Serial Inspector...Well, 2 rings round the helmet was a draw....
Anyway, back to serious, ish. Its amazing looking at the pictures, and thinking back. Would we have stood there and taken it, no.
 
Laudrup said:
Pretty pointless waste of two firearms officers.
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LOL Why would they be police officers - we're going to use the police to enforce sentencing now as well?
 
Anyone seen 28 weeks later ? - we seal tottenham off , evacuate all the non combatants then bomb the place flat with the RAF , as most of the building will have be on fire it should be easy for them to find ;)
 
Marcel said:
Would it be controversial of me to suggest chain-gangs under armed guard for prisoners?
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Not at all, make them work 18 hours a day too. Hang on it won't be allowed if they have to wear orange boiler suits as it is degrading and will hurt their feelings, meaning they will win a court case where the judge agrees and they get a large payout and hay presto rewarded for being a criminal.
 
gramps said:
That's it then, not guns, not tear gas, not water cannon, not prison ... compulsory yoga is the answer.
I can see it now ... High Street, Battersea ... the crowd surge forward, rocks and fire bombs hailing down ... then the megaphone ... "Ok, this is the police ... assume the lotus position!".
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Mmm, interesting if predictable interpretation of my post. ;)
 
Laudrup said:
Pretty pointless waste of two firearms officers.
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well it was you who wanted to put them on community service - or do you think a couple of social workers will be able to keep a community service team of violent little scrotes from absconding or causing more trouble
 
matty said:
you've got a new user title for your...errr..unique views...
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Great. Thanks for that :-(

My comments are tongue in cheek, I could never be a police officer it's a thankless task for much braver women (and men) than me.
 
big soft moose said:
tell you what why dont you actually go live in yemen - not only will you not be able to get a net connection (a major plus for the rest of us) but you'll also be able to see what it's really like to have a corrupt and oppresive police force

then you might appreciate the british police a tad more
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I'd suggest it is you who should go live under an oppressive regime as you seem to crave and be a proponent of their style of barbaric justice. I hear Riyadh is to die for this time of year.
 
Laudrup said:
I'd suggest it is you who should go live under an oppressive regime as you seem to crave and be a proponent of their style of barbaric justice. I hear Riyadh is to die for this time of year.
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LOL Your dad's gonna be in soon - time to get off the PC.
 
Seems to be spreading to other cities now, if twitter rumours (which are seemingly pretty dangerous things at the moment) are to be believed.
 
Laudrup said:
I'd suggest it is you who should go live under an oppressive regime as you seem to crave and be a proponent of their style of barbaric justice. I hear Riyadh is to die for this time of year.
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at least their shops are not being looted, houses and buildings burnt and people scared to go out. sometimes it is necessary to crack down. we cant hug everyone who needs it, sometimes heads need cracking together.

23rdman, seeing as we are all rear-brain sheep here, perhaps you'd like to tell us exactly how you would deal with these mindless *******s that are wrecking the country?
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
Seems to be spreading to other cities now, if twitter rumours (which are seemingly pretty dangerous things at the moment) are to be believed.
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it was on news 24, birmingham has some issues now too.
 
Laudrup said:
I'd suggest it is you who should go live under an oppressive regime as you seem to crave and be a proponent of their style of barbaric justice. I hear Riyadh is to die for this time of year.
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actually i've been there - its not to bad, and theres a damn sight less street crime than there is in london (the risk of getting your hand cut off with a sword is a much higher deterent to bag snatching than the risk of a stern talking to and some 'meet the victim' counselling)

what i'd actually crave is some actual justice - where the rights of the victim are more important than the rights of the perpetrator.

also putting down riots with an iron fist is common in spain, germany, france, even switzerland - none of which are exactly oppresive regimes
 
Well, watching BBC news, it's clear that this has now spread to Birmingham and Leeds, and they're showing live coverage of the events in Hackney...

2 points - I personally object to the BBC reporter who is continually referring to 'demonstrators' when it must be obvious even to her that these people are looters and violent thugs, not demonstrators.

There is aerial footage of the police greatly outnumbering the rioters and basically just holding a line. About a hundred yards behind them, rioters can be seen looting an off licence at their leisure, with nothing being done to stop them. Worrying!
 
big soft moose said:
well it was you who wanted to put them on community service - or do you think a couple of social workers will be able to keep a community service team of violent little scrotes from absconding or causing more trouble
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Where are you living where people doing community service are under armed guard? I've seen several of them litter picking, clearing drives and not an MP5 in sight.
 
Yardbent said:
I believe during the looting after Hurricane Katrina, the Police/National Guard/Army whoever, were instructed to shoot any looters

i see no reason not to apply the same decision in the UK

the trouble here is - no Politician would sign THAT order
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What a truly vile and uncivilised idea. Do you really want to sink to the level of the looters? There are other ways of dealing with them without resorting to potentially fatal violence.

Honestly, some of the opinions in this thread really make me sad. Let's not return to the Dark Ages.
 
Laudrup said:
I'd suggest it is you who should go live under an oppressive regime as you seem to crave and be a proponent of their style of barbaric justice. I hear Riyadh is to die for this time of year.
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Oppressive? Our police? Sorry, but the policemen that I know have been nothing but level-headed and thoroughly decent people...

Would you rather they handled an armed man by asking him to "please put the gun down, there's a good chap" like some latter-day Sgt Wilson from Dad's Army?
 
big soft moose said:
what i'd actually crave is some actual justice - where the rights of the victim are more important than the rights of the perpetrator.
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How true, who will give a monkey's for the poor people who have lost their homes and possessions - everything is about why the riots are justified :cuckoo:

Garry Edwards said:
There is aerial footage of the police greatly outnumbering the rioters and basically just holding a line. About a hundred yards behind them, rioters can be seen looting an off licence at their leisure, with nothing being done to stop them. Worrying!
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Very worrying indeed!
 
Laudrup said:
Where are you living where people doing community service are under armed guard? I've seen several of them litter picking, clearing drives and not an MP5 in sight.
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yeah but the people doing community service usually are not violent criminals - the last community service team i worked with had four drunk drivers, a poacher, a guy who was seriously delinquent in paying his council tax, and 2 guys who'd been done for possession with intent to supply for growing a few dope plants.

organising and disciplining them isnt exactly the same thing as keeping a bunch of yardie drug dealing scumbags in line.
 
Laudrup said:
The rioters and looters should have been arrested, but that is pretty self evident and not even a question worth asking, hence the lack of response.
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I just wondered as you appeared to be blaming the police for everything that happened. I'll admit to being surprised by your answer.
 
if twitter rumours (which are seemingly pretty dangerous things at the moment) are to be believed.
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These kinda sites need terminating or better policing.

To all the tea and cake brigade on here, why dont you go and sort it out. Lets see how far you get:wave:
 
gramps said:
You think what we are seeing amounts to enlightenment?
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I don't believe that violence is a solution in this case; all it will do is create an even greater divide between the police and the people, and possibly turn even more people to the cause of those who originally marched on Saturday. Before I moved to the UK, I lived in the States and before that I lived in South Africa (where I was born). In both SA and the USA, police use deadly force against criminals on a regular basis, and while it may stop those individuals in the short term, it causes far more longterm issues.
 
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matty said:
at least their shops are not being looted, houses and buildings burnt and people scared to go out. sometimes it is necessary to crack down. we cant hug everyone who needs it, sometimes heads need cracking together.

23rdman, seeing as we are all rear-brain sheep here, perhaps you'd like to tell us exactly how you would deal with these mindless *******s that are wrecking the country?
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I don't have an answer, mate, I truly wish I did. I've lived in London and been intimidated by gangs with guns. It's not nice. Rioting sickens me, as does burning down peoples houses whilst they sleep. There are many different things pulling in me depending on what part of my brain is running the show.

If we want civilisation as it is now to be restored then obviously a more heavy-handed approach is needed to quell it. I'm currently watching and trying to see a bigger picture as it develops. It seems to me the world is going through some serious upheavals in places we generally consider watertight. I feel a big change in the air.
 
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