So Tottenham burns!

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The23rdman said:
And, of course, on countries like the US where the police are more hard-nosed they have no problem with gin crime
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In a country like the US where it's legal for civilians to carry firearms if licensed you mean? It would be interesting to see the stats. I'm pretty sure it's higher there by a long way, but then again in the US the police are backed by the public, unlike the UK, the poor criminals always seem more important than the victims. If you know that you are likely to get shot if you carry a gun, you're not going to do it, especially when it's illegal to have one.

As for the latest riots

Water cannons and tear gas to break them up, that will keep the prolonged violence down.
 
It's not a good idea for the police to be armed across the board and the vast majority of officers are opposed to it anyway.
 
dod said:
There are at least two direct questions you've been asked to answer. Any chance of replies or have you not read that page of the handbook yet?
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The rioters and looters should have been arrested, but that is pretty self evident and not even a question worth asking, hence the lack of response.
 
Laudrup said:
The rioters and looters should have been arrested, but that is pretty self evident and not even a question worth asking, hence the lack of response.
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Window dresser then? :lol:
 
I don't agree with using water cannon :shake: It's far too soft and I doubt using hard water would make any difference :)

I would suggest they take the cannon to the nearest sewerage plant and fill it from there, next add copious amounts of that ink that can't be washed off, give it a good stir..... Then bast away :cool:
 
CT said:
This is actually one the dumbest comments of many in the whole thread. At least we know Ding47UK is a primary school teacher, so he's not going to be called on to take anyone out, and his idea of a stressful day is kids pishing on the carpet in the classroom. Fair does - it must be tough at times!

Come on out where we can have a look at you. ;)
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Thanks for keeping us all safe at night, Jack Bauer.
 
Laudrup said:
I can say with some confidence that I've never shot an innocent man in the head with hollow point bullets.
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neither have the police concerned with the duggan shooting - an 'innocent man' wouldn't have been wandering arround tottenham packing heat
 
Flash In The Pan said:
Just as well Blair isn't still PM, otherwise his wife would have been in the thick of it, helping herself to the contents of Carpet Right :lol:
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Graham how can you say a thing like that...................CARPET RIGHT:lol:
 
As Photo Plod said earlier in this thread the Met do have water cannon but they are difficult to deploy in confined inner city areas. In the early 80's I was a riot training instructor with the Met after having endured nearly all of the '81 riots and we tested a range of counter measures including water canon and the Arwen 37 which is a riot control weapon. It was very accurate, very effective and I am sure they will have more up to date versions of this. A few well placed rounds from this might make the rioters think twice.

The problem as far as I can see (and drawing on my own experience) is that many of the senior officers often lack the balls to deal with the rioters in a more robust manner, the guys on the ground will no doubt be chomping at the bit to deal with these thugs effectively but they will be hampered by those above them. In '81 there was a mini-riot in Walthamstow where we had good leadership and the crims started a ruck by throwing petrol bombs at the court but we already had the area surrounded. Justice was swift and brutal and funnily enough we never had any problems in the area for about 2 or 3 years following this event. :)
 
Just emailed my ex-girlfriend who lives in Hackney to see if she did the wise thing and worked from home today. I hope so as her office is at Mare Street.
It's terrifying just being at Hackney under normal circumstances! I went to their local Tescos once, and it is seriously scary as drivers fight to get that parking space. It's all Mercs and BMWs, and was half expecting guns to go off at any moment.
I never want to go anywhere near London, never mind Hackney, no matter whatever the reason may be.
 
Splog said:
I don't agree with using water cannon :shake: It's far too soft and I doubt using hard water would make any difference :)

I would suggest they take the cannon to the nearest sewerage plant and fill it from there, next add copious amounts of that ink that can't be washed off, give it a good stir..... Then bast away :cool:
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This is a great idea... Afterwards you let the dogs off the leads just to round up the stragglers!
 
Laudrup said:
The rioters and looters should have been arrested, but that is pretty self evident and not even a question worth asking, hence the lack of response.
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and punished how ? since you dont want them locked up

maybe they could be given a stiff talking to , and have some counselling :cuckoo:

I'd warrant that if your home had been torched and looted you'd be a little less forgiving
 
big soft moose said:
and punished how ? since you dont want them locked up

maybe they could be given a stiff talking to , and have some counselling :cuckoo:

I'd warrant that if your home had been torched and looted you'd be a little less forgiving
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Put them to work rebuilding or cleaning or working for the community, why should they be locked up and cost £40k a year when they could be paying it back?
 
AFC said:
And where is the PM....on holiday.
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Interestingly so is Boris who isn't coming home.

I wonder if he's been advised to keep away as judging from previous 'gaffs' he may just, as a slight change for a politician, say what some are actually thinking and put both feet in it and really play a controversial card.

What? Suggest giving the police more power so they can actually deal with this crap:bat:
 
Laudrup said:
Thanks for keeping us all safe at night, Jack Bauer.
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That's just being puerile...

Put it in perspective... The majority of us probably have (not always well-paid) jobs... we work for what we have... Not everything in our lives is gonna be easy - there are always gonna be peaks and troughs. That's life.

But how many of us, in the course of our work, have had to deal with someone carrying a loaded weapon and are faced with the decision to eliminate the threat there and then? Not many, I'll bet...

And what if he hadn't been shot? Do you think people in Norway would be as sympathetic if Anders Behring Breivik had been taken out before doing what he did?
 
daizylindsay said:
They should get the army involved and shoot them all.
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A tad extreme... However it would make a few people sit up and think
 
Laudrup said:
Put them to work rebuilding or cleaning or working for the community, why should they be locked up and cost £40k a year when they could be paying it back?
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That's the most sensible thing youve said on this thread.
 
I'm afraid nobody will like this post and most will just ignore it, but you're all wrong. Further discipline wont help because if it would it would have been proven to be the answer in history by now. The same goes for softly-softly. Nothing has ever worked for this reason...

The problem is simple, but complex. We are a young species in early stages of our development with a big old brain we can't drive properly yet.

As Gurdjieff said, "Fairness? Decency? How can you expect fairness or decency on a planet of sleeping people?" By this he meant that the very vast majority of people (including on this forum) are functioning at a very basic mammalian emotional-territorial back-brain level.

We have the ability to think yet the very vast majority never ever have a truly original thought in their lives. This is not a judgement, simply a fact. What we call thought is simply conditioned quasi-thought - machinations of the mind on some kind of repeating loop. Any time spent meditating or practising any method of re-establishing control of the mind/body such as yoga or Qigong will demonstrate to oneself the utter nonsense that goes through our supposedly intelligent minds unabated on a daily basis.

Until we reach a critical point in our evolutionary development where the majority are utilising their frontal lobes as a matter of course we'll continue to stumble around like children poking our hands in the fire.
 
Laudrup said:
Put them to work rebuilding or cleaning or working for the community, why should they be locked up and cost £40k a year when they could be paying it back?
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I take you have seen community service in action have you, I used to manage a small rugby club bar, and for a few months I would have a gang of community service guys in on a Sunday doing painting, if they were made to clear this lot up trust me it would take years and cost way more that imprisonment
 
cyclamens said:
Interestingly so is Boris who isn't coming home.

I wonder if he's been advised to keep away as judging from previous 'gaffs' he may just, as a slight change for a politician, say what some are actually thinking and put both feet in it and really play a controversial card.

What? Suggest giving the police more power so they can actually deal with this crap:bat:
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Apparently Doris is coming home now.
 
I believe during the looting after Hurricane Katrina, the Police/National Guard/Army whoever, were instructed to shoot any looters

i see no reason not to apply the same decision in the UK

the trouble here is - no Politician would sign THAT order
 
Yardbent said:
I believe during the looting after Hurricane Katrina, the Police/National Guard/Army whoever, were instructed to shoot any looters

i see no reason not to apply the same decision in the UK

the trouble here is - no Politician would sign THAT order
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And, of course, the USA's heavy-handed policing has made such a huge difference to their record on civil order and criminality.
 
Yardbent said:
I believe during the looting after Hurricane Katrina, the Police/National Guard/Army whoever, were instructed to shoot any looters

i see no reason not to apply the same decision in the UK

the trouble here is - no Politician would sign THAT order
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Agreed. What right do these parasites have to steal, injure and wreck our country. We would be better off without these blood suckers draining the economy.
 
Laudrup said:
Why, so you can try and belittle it? No thanks, Jack :)
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Well it depends what it is, but you have no problem belittling the job I did for 30 years, so fair's fair. Now i'm intrigued though - it does sound potentially belittle worthy. ;)
 
daizylindsay said:
Agreed. What right do these parasites have to steal, injure and wreck our country. We would be better off without these blood suckers draining the economy.
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So how many hundreds or thousands of someone's sons should we shoot?
 
Hacker

For repeatedly making me do silly building entries, GIT! Those long shields are heavy!
Anyway, you're right, the problem at the moment is lack of positive Policing.
Tottenham led the way with that lack of response, and the rest will follow, assuming rightly, its free shopping evenings in the semi inner areas and the Old Bill will let them get on with it.
So where's the problem? Up at the top. Governors who have no idea due to lack of any policing experience, and are too scared to show leadership by dealing with the problem.
The diversity monster further complicates matters along with the stupid idea that those who shout loudest represent the community.
Until the Met 'management' grow some, it'll stay like it is.
I really feel for the poor sods on the streets today, at least in my day, Brixton 1, Brixton 2 and Finsbury park (only prisoner to plead!) there were a few Governors with some balls.
The excuses used by those causing the trouble wore thin after 9pm Saturday. It's not a Police shooting driving this, or poverty its greed, self interest and the knowledge that even if caught, nothings going to happen.
 
Yves Geza said:
So how many hundreds or thousands of someone's sons should we shoot?
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So, what should we do then? This country is ridiculous! If you do something wrong you should be punished!
 
Yves Geza said:
So how many hundreds or thousands of someone's sons should we shoot?
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I guess that depends on how many bullets they have :shrug:
 
CT
I'd ignore him.
Its very easy to have all the answers when you aren't going to have to face nutters with knives, guns, petrol bombs, or who are just a lot bigger than you, knowing that harm them and its curtains if you slip by one iota in the heat of the moment, and that they face a small fine, if they are unlucky.
In the words of the advert, could you police? Clearly he couldn't, we have.
 
Yves Geza said:
So how many hundreds or thousands of someone's sons should we shoot?
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How many scared and concerned law-abiding citizens should have to stay at home (assuming they still have one) for fear of their own safety?
 
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