So getting a house is not good enough

[John Young]

Unless I have read this wrong, this is ridiculous. They are actually complaining that because a certain firm is in charge they might not get a good enough house

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...8784?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

 

[MG TF 135]

I have to agree with you.

Stuart Crossthwaite, from SYMAAG, said: "Saving money means moving people to the cheapest housing and the cheapest housing is not going to be the best housing by any means.

People have come thousands of miles to escape persecution often being through trauma and wars."

So surely if their homeland is so bad they would be happy to get ANY housing??

If i were in government i'd give em a tent, spin em round and ship em out.

We have enough spongers bred in this country without inviting more in.

 

[John Young]

I have to agree with you.



So surely if their homeland is so bad they would be happy to get ANY housing??

If i were in government i'd give em a tent, spin em round and ship em out.

We have enough spongers bred in this country without inviting more in.

and I have to agree with you....

After all a house any house should be good enough if you are fleeing for your life etc

 

[mj4456]

Deny their applications and send them packing.

 

[boyfalldown]

it seems that the human virtues of compassion and understanding are as important as ever in this thread then......................Next thing you now we'll be here

warning: this photo is upsetting

http://www.independent.co.uk/migration_catalog/article5085221.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/italy-shame.jpeg

 

[Garry Edwards]

We British have a long and proud tradition of giving sanctuary to oppressed people who genuinely need asylum, and I hope it will always continue.

The problem of course is that the asylum provisions are badly abused, and successive governments seem to find it difficult to be fair both to the genuine asylum seekers and to the British population. Maybe the only real answer is for all asylum seekers to be detained until the merits have been properly assessed, and for the genuine people to then get all the help they need and for the rest to be deported, but that just ain't gonna happen.

I don't recall that there's any mention of houses in that report, it's about housing, which is very different. Unfortunately when private companies tender to provide public services there is a history of profiteering, supplying very bad service and and a lack of concern for individual needs - although of course I'm not saying that this applies to this contract.

 

[srichards]

Genuine asylum seekers wouldn't be snobby, they'd be grateful. I'd ship back any that moaned without actual cause.

But as it is group 4 (they changed it to G4S so we'd forget who they were) it will be a farce as they're the lot that used to lose prisoners out of prisons and not keep tabs on tagged ones. Useless muppets.

 

[Suvv]

How so many people can have such strong views based on such little information baffles me :shrug:

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Here's what I don't understand with asylum seekers, these people claim to be fleeing their homelands in fear of their lives, yet they don't stop at the first "safe" country to claim asylum, they travel on through Europe until they reach the UK.

To me that is like someone being chased by a gang with knives running past all the houses in a street and only knocking on the door of the last one because it has a nice car in the driveway.

As for Hugh's picture link, most of these people aren't in that situation, the majority, if not all, have paid thousands of pounds to people smugglers to get them to the UK. The following is quoted from a pro refugee website...

At a bustling Kabul market, people smugglers are making a quick buck out of Afghans increasingly desperate to buy a new life in Europe before NATO combat forces leave in 2014.

Ordinary people pay up to AUS$13,000 for the chance to embark on a long and perilous journey — hiding in truck chassis, stowing away on boats or trekking across mountains — that they hope will take them to a better life.

If they can find £8000 to pay a people smuggler then sorry, but they aren't likely to be in the position of dying of malnutrition. Don't get me wrong, I am all for offering as much help as possible to those who are genuinely fleeing in fear of their lives, however the majority of the "asylum seekers" we seem to get here appear to be no more than economic refugees who have realised that they can live better on benefits than they could ever do working in their home country.

 

[Marc]

..........If they can find £8000 to pay a people smuggler then sorry, but they aren't likely to be in the position of dying of malnutrition.........

Ever thought how they get that £8,000? I would imagine they sell everything they own and arrive at their destination (if they're lucky) with virtually nothing.

 

[neil_g]

all this thread needs is a daily mail reference and we're set

Ever thought how they get that £8,000? I would imagine they sell everything they own and arrive at their destination (if they're lucky) with virtually nothing.

or have to "work it off" at the destination end through fear of violence to them or their family.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Ever thought how they get that £8,000? I would imagine they sell everything they own and arrive at their destination (if they're lucky) with virtually nothing.

Quite possibly, but if say you or I did the same and then turned up in a non-EU country with nothing do you think we'd be welcomed with open arms?

 

[Marc]

Quite possibly, but if say you or I did the same and then turned up in a non-EU country with nothing do you think we'd be welcomed with open arms?

Probably not but is that an example we should follow?

 

[Marc]

And anyway, escaping from the tyranny of HDR isn't a valid reason for Asylum.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Probably not but is that an example we should follow?

I didn't say that, I'm all for offering a safe haven to genuine refugees that are fleeing in fear for their lives. There's still my point, that you appear to have overlooked () regarding where asylum is claimed. If you are genuinely running for your life then you would claim asylum at the first safe country you reached, not travel on for thousands more miles to the one perceived as the softest touch in the world when it comes to offering freebies to anyone who can smuggle themselves through their borders....

 

[Craft]

Quite possibly, but if say you or I did the same and then turned up in a non-EU country with nothing do you think we'd be welcomed with open arms?

No, because your life is not as risk here.

I must admit I have raised an eyebrow at times to the level of support immigrants (through asylum or not) appear to have received.

At the same time it seems rather inhumane to deny them entry.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

No, because your life is not as risk here.

I must admit I have raised an eyebrow at times to the level of support immigrants (through asylum or not) appear to have received.

At the same time it seems rather inhumane to deny them entry.

You're missing my point, the majority of these people are not, by their own admission coming here because their life is at risk, they do so to obtain a better standard of living, they are what is known as economic refugees.

 

[Vic]

If you are genuinely running for your life then you would claim asylum at the first safe country you reached, not travel on for thousands more miles to the one perceived as the softest touch in the world when it comes to offering freebies to anyone who can smuggle themselves through their borders....

I volunteer with asylum seekers, you might the odd fake but most are genuine. In regards to the safest place you reach, yes this is mostly true if they have made their own way to the country however a vast number of people have paid to be transported to the UK, perhaps this is because the UK is a soft touch, maybe not.

Personally I am glad the UK welcome aslyum seekers (lets make a clear distinction between economic immigrants) and I am a bit disturbed by why the OP had to start this thread on one small article. :thumbsdown:

 

[Flash In The Pan]

I volunteer with asylum seekers, you might the odd fake but most are genuine. In regards to the safest place you reach, yes this is mostly true if they have made their own way to the country however a vast number of people have paid to be transported to the UK, perhaps this is because the UK is a soft touch, maybe not.

Out of interest, how many of the "genuine" ones you work with also fall into the "vast number of people (who) have paid to be transported to the UK" ?

 

[Vic]

Out of interest, how many of the "genuine" ones you work with also fall into the "vast number of people (who) have paid to be transported to the UK" ?

Out of the people I have met, and have felt comfortable enough to ask, I'd say almost half or more. Most of the people that I have talked with and subsequently became friends with are genuine (not in quotation marks).

 

[John Young]

I volunteer with asylum seekers, you might the odd fake but most are genuine. In regards to the safest place you reach, yes this is mostly true if they have made their own way to the country however a vast number of people have paid to be transported to the UK, perhaps this is because the UK is a soft touch, maybe not.

Personally I am glad the UK welcome aslyum seekers (lets make a clear distinction between economic immigrants) and I am a bit disturbed by why the OP had to start this thread on one small article. :thumbsdown:

Maybe because that 'one small article' is disgusting. I am not on about the whole asylum subject, that's a whole different can of worms

Like I said originally maybe I understood it wrong in which case I would apologize and it would certainly be a mistake posting this thread

BUT if I got the facts right the asylum seekers who had fled persecution etc came thousands of miles to get here were welcomed here and offered housing and then had the nerve to complain as to which house they did or did not get... that is plain wrong :thumbsdown:

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Out of the people I have met, and have felt comfortable enough to ask, I'd say almost half or more. Most of the people that I have talked with and subsequently became friends with are genuine (not in quotation marks).

To clarify he word genuine was in quotes as it was, err a quote from your post, not because I was doubting your assertion.

However, are you now saying that far from there being "the odd fake", nearly half aren't genuine asylum seekers?

 

[Flash In The Pan]

BUT if I got the facts right the asylum seekers who had fled persecution etc came thousands of miles to get here were welcomed here and offered housing and then had the nerve to complain as to which house they did or did not get... that is plain wrong :thumbsdown:

That's what happened up here - the first batch of asylum seekers were welcomed with open arms and given flats, but the thing is they didn't want to be in Glasgow, they wanted to live in London and so ran away en masse.

Again, my point is, surely if you're a genuine refugee you should be happy with any assistance, not start laying down the law as to where you should be housed and how much money your hosts should give you?

 

[Vic]

To clarify he word genuine was in quotes as it was, err a quote from your post, not because I was doubting your assertion.

However, are you now saying that far from there being "the odd fake", nearly half aren't genuine asylum seekers?

Sure it was

By saying half I was referring to the ones that were smuggled directly to the UK and not passed through other countries. The majority that myself and my colleagues have talked to have been genuine. But then I am only going on personal experience and not internet articles.

 

[Vic]

That's what happened up here - the first batch of asylum seekers were welcomed with open arms and given flats, but the thing is they didn't want to be in Glasgow, they wanted to live in London and so ran away en masse.

Really? I work in Glasgow, I haven't heard of this. Every asylum seeker I know loves Scotland, they miss home of course, but I have never heard any saying that they actively want to go to London. The only ones that have gone to London is when they have been scheduled to be sent back from Heathrow and then granted asylum again, so they end up staying in London.

However this may have been before my time. I do have to say the only complaints I have heard from the housing side of things is when their is damp and heating issues and the kids are getting sick.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Sure it was

By saying half I was referring to the ones that were smuggled directly to the UK and not passed through other countries. The majority that myself and my colleagues have talked to have been genuine. But then I am only going on personal experience and not internet articles.

Could you explain how you can smuggle someone from, say Afghanistan to the UK without passing through any other countries?

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Really? I work in Glasgow, I haven't heard of this. Every asylum seeker I know loves Scotland

It was about 12-13 years ago, I'm sure if you're well versed in the subject then you'll know the details...

 

[Vic]

Could you explain how you can smuggle someone from, say Afghanistan to the UK without passing through any other countries?

You answered your own question in post #9 I believe. They pay or bargain themselves into a way out of the country and the people who they have paid have a set destination, sometimes the UK. There are various meetings, groups and even fun exhibitions happening around Glasgow if you want me to send you some details, you could come down and talk to them yourself, you may meet some fine people.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

You answered your own question in post #9 I believe.

No I didn't, you said that they didn't pass through any other countries, that unless they come directly by boat, is impossible. Which brings me back to my point about seeking refuge in the first safe country. Anyone who does anything else is an economic migrant, not a genuine refugee....

 

[Vic]

No I didn't, you said that they didn't pass through any other countries, that unless they come directly by boat, is impossible. Which brings me back to my point about seeking refuge in the first safe country. Anyone who does anything else is an economic migrant, not a genuine refugee....

People smugglers do not smuggle to the first available country, like I said if the asylum seeker has paid to be taken to a certain place then yes they will pass through several countries, actually smuggled through several countries. By smuggled through several countries you do know that means they don't pass through passport control on these countries right?

Sorry but if you truly believe your last statement then I implore you to visit your nearest asylum centre (Govan?) and you can hear some of the womens stories of gang rape or even see the scars running down their necks. If you want to stick to that line then perhaps we should end this conversation here then as nothing I say on a message board will convince you otherwise.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

if the asylum seeker has paid to be taken to a certain place then yes they will pass through several countries, actually smuggled through several countries. By smuggled through several countries you do know that means they don't pass through passport control on these countries right?

Yes, thank you, I'm well aware they won't have passed through passport control.

However, as I said previously, if you're running for your life why not pick the first safe place of refuge, why choose one thousands of miles further on, that just happens to offer far more in the way of economic benefits?

Oh, wait, this time I have answered my own question

 

[Vic]

Yes, thank you, I'm well aware they won't have passed through passport control.

However, as I said previously, if you're running for your life why not pick the first safe place of refuge, why choose one thousands of miles further on, that just happens to offer far more in the way of economic benefits?

Oh, wait, this time I have answered my own question

Oh yes you definitely have answered your own question, only with an answer you want to hear, however as long as it makes you happy then who am I to argue anymore?

Thankfully a lot of Glasgow are far less ignorant

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Oh yes you definitely have answered your own question, only with an answer you want to hear, however as long as it makes you happy then who am I to argue anymore?

Thankfully a lot of Glasgow are far less ignorant

Ah, there we go, the sign of someone who can't have a reasoned discussion without resorting to personal insults. Well done

 

[Vic]

Ah, there we go, the sign of someone who can't have a reasoned discussion without resorting to personal insults. Well done

Hmmmmm I would say a keen observation but I can see why you would be insulted. Something to take onboard for yourself hopefully

 

[Flash In The Pan]

Hmmmmm I would say a keen observation but I can see why you would be insulted. Something to take onboard for yourself hopefully

Ok, I'll take onboard that you are incapable of having a grown-up discussion


Now, getting back on topic, if you could answer my question....

"why would anyone who is genuinely in fear of their life not want just to get to the first place of safety?"

 

[Vic]

Ok, I'll take onboard that you are incapable of having a grown-up discussion


Now, getting back on topic, if you could answer my question....

"why would anyone who is genuinely in fear of their life not want just to get to the first place of safety?"

As I said in post#25 I don't think there is anything I can say that is going to realistically change your views, hence my comment in post#27. However in hindsight perhaps my personal experience of interacting with asylum seekers and refugees has blinkered my ability to be cynical? I don't know Either way I don't think your good self and I will find any common ground or be open to each others opinions so as I said I think we should leave it here.

 

[Flash In The Pan]

As I said in post#25 I don't think there is anything I can say that is going to realistically change your views, hence my comment in post#27. However in hindsight perhaps my personal experience of interacting with asylum seekers and refugees has blinkered my ability to be cynical? I don't know Either way I don't think your good self and I will find any common ground or be open to each others opinions so as I said I think we should leave it here.

You misunderstand, I am not asking you to change my views, but merely to clarify that one point. As one who has an obviously deep understanding into how these things work, I am merely asking you to help me understand why someone who is genuinely fleeing their homeland in fear of their lives (and if you've read my earlier posts you will see I have no qualms whatsoever about our fair city welcoming such people with open arms) doesn't seek refuge in the first safe place they get to.

I understand fully that people smugglers may offer the chance for them to travel to the UK, however once again I can't see any situation whereby travelling across the rest of the EU, where asylum could equally be claimed would be done for any other reason than because this country is seen as a "soft touch".

If you are indeed trying to change my views then avoiding answering that one question and stating that nearly half of those you, in, I assume a professional capacity, come into contact with are here as economic migrants disguised as asylum seekers, suggest that my stance is too close to the truth for you.

I am more than happy to be proved wrong

 

[Cobra]

This is starting to get a bit personal guys,
please pretend you are all little trains and get back on track.
Fank yoo kindly

 

[cambsno]

We should do what Australia does!

Why can't the asylum seekers stay in France? Safe enough there? Genuine cases yes, I am happy to receive them here but they should NOT be give preferential treatment over UK residents for things like housing and benefits.

Also, if an asylum seeker breaks the law here then they should be deported immediately. Happy for them to be given a chance here but they need to respect the laws to stay here. Get caught thieving, driving without insurance, sexual offences etc... and they should be booted out and stuff their Human Rights - the Human Rights of the law abiding citizen should come first!

Or we could just send em all to Scotland, then give the Jocks independence!! Job done!

 

[John Young]

Not wanting to stoke the fire but I was talking to a bloke a few weeks back and his friend owns a garage. He said two asylum seekers came into the garage looking for a car. They had some voucher from the government to get them transport to look for work.

The thing was they were looking at BMW's. The garage owner queried this pointing out more suitable cars and they said no they wanted the BMW (that the goverment - we were paying for) and the way they were doing this was they both had a voucher each and they were putting them together to get the BMW.

The garage owner phoned a number on the voucher to check this was OK and inform them what they were doing and the person on the other end of the phone said ..'Yeah that's fine they can do that' :nono: