So called "high output reflectors?

Canon Bob

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I see that WEX describe the Bowens 50 Degree Keylight Reflector as "the perfect reflector to be used where maximum light output is required". Given that standard reflectors appear to be anything but standard then can anybody quantify how much extra light one can expect from this?......Are we taking 1/2 stop, 1 stop or utter claptrap?

I'm looking to get the maximum illumination for my 500/1000ws to be able to increase the light to subject distance and I'm not sure whether this or a reflector with a narrower angle is the way to go.

Cheers
Bob
 
Thanks Mike....looks like that's one option.
 
Bob.

Haven't used that exact one but Elinchrom have an 29 degree ultra-high output reflector (Maxi-Spot) and I seem to remember from my tests a few years back that it added around 2 3/4 stops vs the standard 90 degree reflector for a given distance. I'd expect at least a stop from yours.

Of course, all these reflectors are doing is focusing the fixed output of the light into a tighter circle so mathematically you can work out what you'll get to a fair degree of accuracy. Don't quote me on this as it's been a long time since I did strobe calcs but if your standard reflector had a 100 degree beam spread and this one has 50 degrees, that would be a 2-stop increase. If the standard reflector had a 75 degree spread, that would give you a 1-stop increase. e.t.c.
 
Thanks Hermes. I understand the maths based around simply focusing the beam on a smaller area but was wondering about the difference between reflectors with a 'hammered' (softening) interior surface and those with a highly reflective surface. I guess that the light is harsher with the latter but I'm not unduly concerned by that fact.
 
I don't have exact figures to hand Bob, but from memory when I swapped from a 90cm Lencarta Profold softbox to their tall High Intensity Reflector with the characteristic tulip shape, exposures jumped 2.5-3 stops. BIG increase in brightness and range - some parabolic effect going on I think. They're understandably popular with location shooters working in bright ambient light, with the added bonus of reduced wind resistance, at least compared to softboxes. Be prepared for strong shadows though, and more careful positioning :)

ps Can't comment on the effect of the Bowens mirrored surface, other than it will increase brightness further (Garry E has commented that it inflates Bowens guide number figures). It must have other effects too, possibly less even coverage and maybe a sharp cut-off around the edge, but that's just guessing. The Flashy Horse Wisperer will know haha
 
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Thanks Hermes. I understand the maths based around simply focusing the beam on a smaller area but was wondering about the difference between reflectors with a 'hammered' (softening) interior surface and those with a highly reflective surface. I guess that the light is harsher with the latter but I'm not unduly concerned by that fact.

You'll probably find that light from the polished surface looks uneven and a bit spotty with the modelling light but the actual flashtube floods the reflector much more evenly and the light quality ends up fine (except possibly a dead spot in the light output at 6 o'clock where the flashtube has one).

All the hammered surface is doing is scattering light around the edges of the circle of illumination. If you want a smooth light-fall off, you'll need to go for hammered but if your main priority is output, stick with the polished. If you want to throw light really far, consider getting an Elinchrom Maxi-Spot and drilling out the mounting ring & replacing it with a Bowens one. It focuses light over distances so well that the modelling light can actually melt things if you leave it pointing in one place at full power!
 
You're right, standard reflectors do vary a lot, so the whole thing can be subjective. The Bowens standard reflectors (which they seem to think are called spill kill reflectors) have a highly polished surface that maximises the guide number at the expense of usability (IMO) and their "Keylight Reflector" is very similar. It's also pretty small, and seems to be relying on its mirror-like surface as much as on its slightly different design to maximise the light. These highly polished reflectors are also pretty useless when used with a honeycomb, because the mirror-like surface creates a shadow effect that can be pretty ugly.

Many years ago, I bought the Elinchrom one, and it was excellent. The Lencarta one is very similar and like Richard, I found a 2.5 stop increase in effective power at 10', and from memory that goes up to a 3.5 stop increase at 15', compared to the Lencarta standard reflector. Indoors, it's incredibly useful for bouncing off of a ceiling or wall for bounce. Outdoors, I've typically used it to create a shaft of "sunlight" or to change the shaft of sunlight that was already there but in the wrong place, or to create backlighting regardless of the ambient lighting, etc. Often, nothing else comes close, because typically when used outdoors a very high level of power is needed and also the light needs to be out of shot, so the high intensity reflector, often fitted with a honeycomb, is the only real solution.
Mike made a valid point too, a lot depends on the flash head. Bowens flash heads have the flash tube set further forward than most others and my guess (I haven't tried it) is that they have allowed for this in the design of their "Keylight Reflector" and I doubt whether this reflector would make much difference with most other makes of flash head.
 
Thanks Richard and Garry....2-3 stops looks like it'll be worth a little investment. My older heads are Elinchrom but the efficiency of the reflector changes when they're on the Priolites (S-mount) due to the offset caused by the adapter.
I'm aiming to do some contrived/posed sports action stuff and would like the safest possible distance between whatever's flying around and my lights.
I have 3 of the Priolite Hot Sync heads and can use their long burn output to blitz the ambient using shutter speed and then balance the distance and aperture to get the other bits in the ball park.

Bob
 
The reason I said about the flash head design was that I tried a Godox AD360 with one and you could slide the head in and out to tune the quantity of light

I can appreciate that 'focusing' the light source will affect the size/efficiency of the cone produced. Clamping a Speedlight style head is much easier than trying to adapt a monobloc and more so if the offset is already beyond the forward limit.
I've got some self adhesive silver vinyl and might have a try at lining a reflector to see how much can be achieved by that method. I used the same vinyl on some macro reflectors and improved their output by around 1EV.
 
What is the difference in light effect between using a long throw reflector and using a standard reflector with grids/honeycombs on to narrow down the light beam?

On a side note, I see some of these long throw reflectors come with their own metal grids/honeycombs.
 
What is the difference in light effect between using a long throw reflector and using a standard reflector with grids/honeycombs on to narrow down the light beam?

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I guess that the theory is that the long throw reflector focuses the available output whilst gridding a regular adapter simply cuts off the extremeties as there cannot be any additional light for it to work with. Simply put, one focuses and the other trims.

So here's a slightly interesting, albeit disappointing, outcome. I had a pair of Lencarta 'High Intensity' reflectors (45 deg) delivered today and gave them a face off against a standard Priolite reflector (50 deg)......the Priolite is 1/2 stop better at all distances up to 6m ! Of course, this is only part of the story and the Lencarta may give far more even and better quality light.....and probably does as the interior is a soft, dull aluminium and not reflective whilst the Priolite is hammered and silvered. I need to get a little more scientific and see how each performs across the projected pool of light and I suspect that the Lencarta will be more even (I measured and the centre). I'm also awaiting a bargain basement Photosel long thrower so that I can line the interior with some reflective silver vinyl. It's also possible that the Priolite head's geometry isn't a good match for the Lencarta unit and I might need to see if an offset is needed.

I'll update this thread when I have concluded some more testing.

Bob
 
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I'll update this thread when I have concluded some more testing.

Your post is very interesting and I am curious to see the results of the 3 modifiers compared.

I wonder what is considered the optimum working range for long throws? Could 6 meters be on the short side? I have no idea as I have never seen these in any kind of use. Its helpful you describe the interior finish.

Thank you for the explanation between standard and long throw - its a memorable description! :-)
 
I guess that the theory is that the long throw reflector focuses the available output whilst gridding a regular adapter simply cuts off the extremeties as there cannot be any additional light for it to work with. Simply put, one focuses and the other trims.

So here's a slightly interesting, albeit disappointing, outcome. I had a pair of Lencarta 'High Intensity' reflectors (45 deg) delivered today and gave them a face off against a standard Priolite reflector (50 deg)......the Priolite is 1/2 stop better at all distances up to 6m ! Of course, this is only part of the story and the Lencarta may give far more even and better quality light.....and probably does as the interior is a soft, dull aluminium and not reflective whilst the Priolite is hammered and silvered. I need to get a little more scientific and see how each performs across the projected pool of light and I suspect that the Lencarta will be more even (I measured and the centre). I'm also awaiting a bargain basement Photosel long thrower so that I can line the interior with some reflective silver vinyl. It's also possible that the Priolite head's geometry isn't a good match for the Lencarta unit and I might need to see if an offset is needed.

I'll update this thread when I have concluded some more testing.

Bob
Yes, the Bowens mirror-finish reflectors will produce a high volume of light, especially at short distances, at the expense of even illumination. I think that I said that earlier.
Your post is very interesting and I am curious to see the results of the 3 modifiers compared.

I wonder what is considered the optimum working range for long throws? Could 6 meters be on the short side? I have no idea as I have never seen these in any kind of use. Its helpful you describe the interior finish.

Thank you for the explanation between standard and long throw - its a memorable description! :)
I haven't done detailed tests, but they are certainly effective at about 3m or more, there's no reason why they can't be used at shorter distances, but at shorter distances you don't get much gain in power.
In this video (although they are not mentioned at all in the commentary) I'd set one up to create a shaft of "sunlight" on a dull day.
In this even older video, I used one to create "sunlight" on the bride's back, on a miserable day on which we'd had torrential rain and no suspicion of any sun. Look at the still photo at 4.27
I think that the distance will have been around 10m or so, and although I can't remember the details, there will have been a honeycomb fitted to the reflector.
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New post because I can't include more than 2 videos in the same post....
And I used one in this video, complete with honeycomb, to backlight/sidelight the rain and to bring it to life. You can see our own @Phil V making the rain:) The distance here was pretty close. Typically, the video guy was using a wideangle lens, which made it look further away than it was. Distance wasn't critical with this shot because it was a physically small scene - we tend to use them at long distances when we need to get them out of shot in larger scenes.
 
For Jay and anyone else with a passing interest..........

The Lencarta long throw and the cheaper Photosel are as near as damn it the same shape with the Lencarta version having a deeper rim for grid/honeycomb mounting.
At 6m the Photosel gives 1 stop more illumination than the Lencarta but I've modified a second Photosel by lining the inside with reflective silver vinyl and this has increased is output by 1-1/3 stops (all based on a 500w/s Priolite head at full power).

I'm sure that the quality of light will be in some way inversely proportional to the increased output but if it's simply raw power that you need (without heeding granny's complexion) then a couple of quids worth of adhesive vinyl is a big saving on the cost of a second head.
 
The Lencarta long throw and the cheaper Photosel are as near as damn it the same shape with the Lencarta version having a deeper rim for grid/honeycomb mounting.

Thanks for that.

Do both brands of reflector take the same diameter of honeycomb grid? Or do you mean the Photosel cant take a grid?

The impact of the linings is interesting.
Where did you get your lining?
 
Do both brands of reflector take the same diameter of honeycomb grid? Or do you mean the Photosel cant take a grid?
They're the same diameter but the Lencarta version has a recess that is deeper. I don't have a honeycomb but if they're the same thickness as the 19cm ones then I believe that the Lencarta will take two of them and the Photosel just the one.

Where did you get your lining?
From Amazon...."self adhesive silver vinyl". (I'm not in the UK and not all options will ship here so there may be a better one than that which I've used)
 
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