joebh123
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As does every man, however a Toyota Land Cruiser V8 would have been a better purchase.
and please use their services
Snow. Let's all laugh at the English. You drive a fancy 4x4 but are clueless.
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As does every man, however a Toyota Land Cruiser V8 would have been a better purchase.
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quick question: how do you train everyone to be adept at driving in conditions that we only experience for a few days every year? that training course is going to be hella busy.
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Range Rovers are actually highly capable offroad if driven correctly. The latest version has a better wading depth than a defender. It will go everywhere a defender will go in standard form and do it in a lot more comfort.
Just because the RR and RRS have been taken up in droves by halfwit footballers who dont know thier arse from their elbow and can barely drive them on the road, doesnt mean when in the right hands, they arent perfectly at home off road.
Maybe some of the naysayers here should take a Range Rover test drive at an LRE centre.
Just because the RR and RRS have been taken up in droves by halfwit footballers who dont know thier arse from their elbow and can barely drive them on the road, doesnt mean when in the right hands, they arent perfectly at home off road.
Maybe some of the naysayers here should take a Range Rover test drive at an LRE centre.
joebh123
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I just fail to see why a car with sideskirts and alloys like that should go off road? :shrug:
srichards
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Snow is easy. Assume you can't stop faster than lifting off and steering is more like piloting a boat and you can't go far wrong. What the knobs in 4x4s forget is that awd doesn't mean better braking. You might be able to go along faster but you can't stop any better than a 2wd car. If you have abs in snow you won't stop any time soon at all.
I like the lancia in the snow. 4wd, no abs and reasonably light. Predictable and neutral slider if its going to go too.
I used to use my skyline all winter. I had many a chortle at BMW and merc drivers getting stuck because they didn't understand how to pull away without stamping on the accelerator so they'd sit there polishing the road. If I can drive around in 350 bhp beast without mishap then there is little excuse for anyone else.
I like the lancia in the snow. 4wd, no abs and reasonably light. Predictable and neutral slider if its going to go too.
I used to use my skyline all winter. I had many a chortle at BMW and merc drivers getting stuck because they didn't understand how to pull away without stamping on the accelerator so they'd sit there polishing the road. If I can drive around in 350 bhp beast without mishap then there is little excuse for anyone else.
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Yes, most of us know that and agree wholly.
Some of us knobs actually need 4x4s, some of us knobs know how to drive them off road and get traction on slippery roads. Bit like knobs who drive Skylines.....
Ps...which Lancia you got? Had a few myself, cracking cars.
joebh123
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Yes, most of us know that and agree wholly.
Some of us knobs actually need 4x4s, some of us knobs know how to drive them off road and get traction on slippery roads. Bit like knobs who drive Skylines.....
Ps...which Lancia you got? Had a few myself, cracking cars.
I think its the braking that gets to people, just see them slamming them on hoping to stop, use the damn gears man!
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They have alloys and side skirts because the great chav society have demanded it. Original range rovers looked nothing like they do now with all the bling.
The range rover core hasn't changed, its just all the crap stuck on them to please the WAGs.
They are still as good off road as they ever have been, in fact better now.
Kind of like why people deem it necessary to drive rally prepped Subarus around. They serve no purpose other than to show off. Doesn't make the car any less capable.
Garry Edwards
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That's the whole point. Some of us have actually got mud on them, some of us actually have proper tyres on them, have a manual low transfer box and know how to use it. Some of us know how to winch, tow, be towed, make some traction out of nothing and don't panic when we lose traction and start sliding down a hill when we actually want to go up it...Yes, most of us know that and agree wholly.
Some of us knobs actually need 4x4s, some of us knobs know how to drive them off road and get traction on slippery roads. Bit like knobs who drive Skylines.....
Ps...which Lancia you got? Had a few myself, cracking cars.
Most of the problems with 4WD vehicles are down to the people who buy them. It's a great pity that governments tax them as unnecessary luxury items when, for some of us, they are essential tools.
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Originally Posted by dinners
I think there is some truth in the view that we should all be required to be more adept at driving in winter conditions.
It's more than a few days but yeah - hard to incorporate into the learning process.
I think there is some truth in the view that we should all be required to be more adept at driving in winter conditions.
It's more than a few days but yeah - hard to incorporate into the learning process.
srichards
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fracster said:Yes, most of us know that and agree wholly.
Some of us knobs actually need 4x4s, some of us knobs know how to drive them off road and get traction on slippery roads. Bit like knobs who drive Skylines.....
Ps...which Lancia you got? Had a few myself, cracking cars.
Integrale 16v Rarely drive it since getting an Alfa spider. I think I'm getting old!
I have a discovery 4 and know how to drive it, I own it because I need it for certain trips but for going to she shops I use my wifes corsa as a 4x4 is simply not needed.
Have helped a few people stuck in snow but i'll never stop and help "throttle stampers" no matter what they are driving.
The £460 road tax does p me off as its hardly ever on the road
Have helped a few people stuck in snow but i'll never stop and help "throttle stampers" no matter what they are driving.
The £460 road tax does p me off as its hardly ever on the road
onomatopoeia
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ooooh nice
. I remember lusting after one of them when they were new, I'd not long passed my test and had a clapped out Morris Marina 
I like the Spiders as well, particularly the series 1 with its long boot.
srichards
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onomatopoeia said:ooooh nice
I like the Spiders as well, particularly the series 1 with its long boot.
Mine's a phase 2 spider. Not as good looking as earlier ones but modern and relatively squeak and rattle free for an Italian car
Morris marina? What possessed you?!
littlemonster
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The biggest problem is that most people have never had any training or help on the correct way to drive in it. that's why it's often worse down south - in Cornwall we can go 3 or 4 years with no or minimal snow, which means most people never have it while learning, so unless they can have somebody help them when they get a chance, there's a good chance they remain clueless.
I never had much trouble (I know I know, it's the internet, everyone says that), I had a training session or 2 with Dad when I had a chance, but maybe more importantly I was pre-told the basics, but I'm also not easily panicked by it (although hitting black ice while driving on a dual carriageway in a strange hire car was a bit odd!) - how many times has everyone seen people hit ice/snow/oil/anything and panic brake?
A few years ago all us kids were stranded in school due to an unexpected snowing (and idiots not getting buses back soon enough and then they "couldn't drive in it"). There was about 4" of snow... some parents, including mine, came to fetch us, Dad came the whole way in a peugeot partner, didn't skid once. Other people were stuck in what should have been perfectly capable cars, including many 4x4s - every 1 was down to the driver, not down to the car. Of course them being stuck was far more hazardous than the snow in reality. And it was 4 inches, so really not that bad. But most just had no clue how to drive in it.
Dad and his Dad went around the country building bungalows for years, many winters in much worse snow (some were in scotland, wales, all over, places where they get REAL snow) so has driven in it a lot, so obviously that's an advantage...
The last 5 christmases I've spent in hereford (a bit up from gloucester, borders on wales) where real snow is more common and people manage far better than half the amount in cornwall. Admittedly when nipping down icy backlanes to somewhere for pics + doggy walking there was a car on a hedge (no I didn't get a picture, yes I regret it daily)... but mostly, people seemed able to cope better. Of course, the main road was gritted 3-4 times a day, not every couple of days like in cornwall. That helped for the bigger roads.
I never had much trouble (I know I know, it's the internet, everyone says that), I had a training session or 2 with Dad when I had a chance, but maybe more importantly I was pre-told the basics, but I'm also not easily panicked by it (although hitting black ice while driving on a dual carriageway in a strange hire car was a bit odd!) - how many times has everyone seen people hit ice/snow/oil/anything and panic brake?
A few years ago all us kids were stranded in school due to an unexpected snowing (and idiots not getting buses back soon enough and then they "couldn't drive in it"). There was about 4" of snow... some parents, including mine, came to fetch us, Dad came the whole way in a peugeot partner, didn't skid once. Other people were stuck in what should have been perfectly capable cars, including many 4x4s - every 1 was down to the driver, not down to the car. Of course them being stuck was far more hazardous than the snow in reality. And it was 4 inches, so really not that bad. But most just had no clue how to drive in it.
Dad and his Dad went around the country building bungalows for years, many winters in much worse snow (some were in scotland, wales, all over, places where they get REAL snow) so has driven in it a lot, so obviously that's an advantage...
The last 5 christmases I've spent in hereford (a bit up from gloucester, borders on wales) where real snow is more common and people manage far better than half the amount in cornwall. Admittedly when nipping down icy backlanes to somewhere for pics + doggy walking there was a car on a hedge (no I didn't get a picture, yes I regret it daily)... but mostly, people seemed able to cope better. Of course, the main road was gritted 3-4 times a day, not every couple of days like in cornwall. That helped for the bigger roads.
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u8myufo
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Some interesting points raised here along with the I want to show you I have a smaller knob than you pics I have spent a fair few years driving excavators from 1Ton -30Ton as well as D9 Caterpillar`s out on sites. I have driven Tractors down pretty steep stoney and slippery slopes, even with the right gear ratio`s selected it is never a guarantee. With a full trailer load of hay pushing you from behind the unexpected can happen, you have to be prepared and know how to handle the situation, going into panic mode and hitting the brakes is the worse thing most people do. Going back to the excavators I have seen blokes who had previously driven them just doing road work. They then come on site and then use one in a rough terrain situation on wet ground, they think they can go anywhere, wrong. Every machine has limitations just the same as a car. Every car is different, they all have slightly different weight displacements, torque and handling characteristics. A lot of these situations with the snow could be avoided if people were more experienced with their driving, but experience is just not about going on a coarse and learning how to control your vehicle. In some cases it is also about weighing up the situation beforehand and deciding that the weather conditions are not favourable to set off on a journey in the first place.
I have spent a fair few years driving excavators from 1Ton -30Ton as well as D9 Caterpillar`s out on sites. I have driven Tractors down pretty steep stoney and slippery slopes, even with the right gear ratio`s selected it is never a guarantee. With a full trailer load of hay pushing you from behind the unexpected can happen, you have to be prepared and know how to handle the situation, going into panic mode and hitting the brakes is the worse thing most people do. Going back to the excavators I have seen blokes who had previously driven them just doing road work. They then come on site and then use one in a rough terrain situation on wet ground, they think they can go anywhere, wrong. Every machine has limitations just the same as a car. Every car is different, they all have slightly different weight displacements, torque and handling characteristics. A lot of these situations with the snow could be avoided if people were more experienced with their driving, but experience is just not about going on a coarse and learning how to control your vehicle. In some cases it is also about weighing up the situation beforehand and deciding that the weather conditions are not favourable to set off on a journey in the first place.
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Not really any different to driving on 2 or 3 lane dual carriageways and learners are allowed on those.
Nikon Man
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Your assessment of 4*4 drivers is laughable so much so I nearly spilled my tea when reading your post.
"350 bhp beast" <-- Thread winner here.
Yes but we all know the Skyline is computer controlled, all the driver has to do is steer more or less steer in the chosen direction and the car will do as needed.
Get a grip (excuse the pun):shake:
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littlemonster
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Yes they can - having driven on them a fair bit, first time being a few months after passing my test, I fail to see the big deal. They're dual carriageways with better/proper/existant sliproads and a spare lane. And no chance (ok, highly reduced, if somebody decides to be illegal it could happen) of driving along at 70 and there being a cyclist or a horse rider. No roads cutting across them with people pulling out on you.
Also as you can still be taught entirely by a family member and passing your test, I'm unsure what they could fairly enforce anyway...
Garry Edwards
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It's very possible to get training. You don't even need snow, mud does the job almost as well, it has much the same characteristics - a surface that moves itself instead of keeping still, making it easy for the car to move.
My No.3 son is only 21, but he's an expert. He started driving on his 13th birthday, and by the time he was old enough to drive on the roads he had driven just about every kind of agricultural vehicle, as well as cars and vans, on both mud and snow. He has to drive both on and off road in very slippery conditions daily, it isn't optional because animals need feeding whatever the weather conditions.
He lives in a very hilly part of North Yorkshire where there are no gritters, no help if you come unstuck, no mobile phone signal, narrow roads and tracks where there is no room for mistakes - roads that are dangerous from mud in heavy rain, just worse in snow.
People who aren't 'lucky' enough to have these conditions can practice on wet grass, which can also cause problems. No. 2 son, who is a professional driver, got stuck on wet grass a couple of days ago and needed No.3 son with low ratio 4WD to pull him off... And some experience can be gained just by getting tuition on a skidpan.
It's not that people can't get training or practice, it's probably more that they don't think they need to because they think that they're experts or think that they have a car that makes knowledge and skill unnecessary.
My No.3 son is only 21, but he's an expert. He started driving on his 13th birthday, and by the time he was old enough to drive on the roads he had driven just about every kind of agricultural vehicle, as well as cars and vans, on both mud and snow. He has to drive both on and off road in very slippery conditions daily, it isn't optional because animals need feeding whatever the weather conditions.
He lives in a very hilly part of North Yorkshire where there are no gritters, no help if you come unstuck, no mobile phone signal, narrow roads and tracks where there is no room for mistakes - roads that are dangerous from mud in heavy rain, just worse in snow.
People who aren't 'lucky' enough to have these conditions can practice on wet grass, which can also cause problems. No. 2 son, who is a professional driver, got stuck on wet grass a couple of days ago and needed No.3 son with low ratio 4WD to pull him off... And some experience can be gained just by getting tuition on a skidpan.
It's not that people can't get training or practice, it's probably more that they don't think they need to because they think that they're experts or think that they have a car that makes knowledge and skill unnecessary.
joebh123
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I was about to say if you want practice, it's not hard to find it. Just have a play on some wet grass and see how easy it is to loose the back end, or even worse, the front end. I would much rather cope with oversteer than understeer!
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Some interesting points raised here along with the I want to show you I have a smaller knob than you pics
... You want to know where I'm coming from
...
drop the clutch for some fun by Yvonne White - WhiteGoldImages, on Flickr
u8myufo
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Well let me explain it to you Craig. One person puts up a picture of their wheels and then sure enough someone will come along and show off theirs
And you know what they say about Boy`s with their toys Nice motor BTW but it`s on the wrong side of the hedge
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Garry Edwards
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I think the reality is that there isn't a simple solution, with any one car being able to do everything.
The RR may be OK with grabber tyres, but they don't come with them as standard.
It may be able to wade, but I doubt whether many people would be happy to get the inside wet...
Many of them are automatics, which is far from ideal off road, or even when the slippery stuff is underfoot.
As for the lightweight 4WD cars, yes they may be very capable - but they don't have enough weight to tow anything heavy.
The RR may be OK with grabber tyres, but they don't come with them as standard.
It may be able to wade, but I doubt whether many people would be happy to get the inside wet...
Many of them are automatics, which is far from ideal off road, or even when the slippery stuff is underfoot.
As for the lightweight 4WD cars, yes they may be very capable - but they don't have enough weight to tow anything heavy.