"Smart" heating

[JonathanRyan]

Anybody using Nest/Hive/Tado/Honeywell? Is it genuinely useful?

I have a largeish (5 bedroom) detached house. The heating system is from the 1980s so we have micro bore pipes, no TRVs and an antiquated thermostat in the hall but there's a fairly large 1 year old boiler in the garage. There's a 7 day timer tucked away in a very awkward place which means that I reprogram the heating about every 3 months even if we are away for a weekend. We both work from home and will do for the foreseeable future. During weekdays my wife will be working in one of the bedrooms and I'll be in the study, in the evening we are generally both in the living room. She likes it cold, I like it warm

We have a heating engineer coming to service the boiler this week. I've asked for a quote for TRVs and Nest. He's proposing Honeywell Evohome "if I can afford it".

Anybody have one of these systems and find them useful? I don't particularly care about being able to adjust the heating while I'm not at home (which seems one of their lead features) but really like the idea of warming the rooms we are in to different temperatures and being able to change the timings easily - when It's cold we have the heating come on for an hour at lunchtime.

What do you have? Do you like it? Was it expensive? Does it save you money....?

(No need to warn me about Google having my data, thanks. We already have 3 Alexa spies and a Nest mini. I'm thinking of getting Nest smoke detectors too.)

 

[robj20]

I have Evohome and it's brilliant. It's easily paying for itself especially now with gas prices the way they are.

I basically have full control over each room as a zone.
For instance for the majority of the day the heating is only on in the living room 19c. The dining room and kitchen are at 18c all day. They're off at night and only the babies room and 3 year old room are set to 18c all night.

I never have to fiddle unless our patterns change. I never have to switch it on or off.

In summer it won't for instance come on of the living room is 17c in the morning but the daytime temp is going to be high 20s, and in winter it will boost selected temps by an amount of the outside temp is below 0c.

I also have Opentherm which means that Evohome instead of calling for heat or not calling for heat, calls for a specific temperature of water. What that means is my boiler pretty much is on all the time at say 20c.
Rather than cycling on and off, results in stable room temps and almost cold to the touch radiators.

Ask away if you want to know anymore? I installed my own Central heating as well so know all the ins and outs.

 

[mex]

I have Hive, only because I got it for nothing from one the reps. It's OK, does what it says on the tin and gives us control of the main room stat via my phone, but you are limited to Hive only products, which don't come cheap. The most popular system we sell is Nest, probably because of the versatility of it and being able to use Google compatible products. Honeywell used to be the dogs ganglies, but like many other companies they now use inferior components, we see more returns from them than any other smart stat manufacturer.

Will it save you money? simply yes it will, particularly working alongside a new boiler, (TRV's should have been fitted a year ago with the boiler to comply with part L of building regs.??)

 

[sphexx]

If you don’t go with the Evohome you might consider replacing your wall thermostat with a “portable“ wireless one. I have a basic one that only does daytime and night temperatures but together with the rather inefficient radiator thermostat valves, achieves much like you’re after by moving the thermostat from room to room (ie living room in daytime, bedroom at night). There are later ones with more settings and some built in ‘intelligence’ so they don’t come on if the temp is near correct and it ‘knows’ it’s about to switch off. Same at the start - comes on early if room is really cold. No doubt there are other solutions.

Like this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N9X2F32/?coliid=I2LL2YY9P4NKO1&colid=2KWI4YW470H2Y&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

 

[robj20]

I have Hive, only because I got it for nothing from one the reps. It's OK, does what it says on the tin and gives us control of the main room stat via my phone, but you are limited to Hive only products, which don't come cheap. The most popular system we sell is Nest, probably because of the versatility of it and being able to use Google compatible products. Honeywell used to be the dogs ganglies, but like many other companies they now use inferior components, we see more returns from them than any other smart stat manufacturer.

Will it save you money? simply yes it will, particularly working alongside a new boiler, (TRV's should have been fitted a year ago with the boiler to comply with part L of building regs.??)

Versatility of Nest are you joking it's a glorified standard thermostats that at best can control two zones.
No reason you can't mix and match with Evohome, I have Nest Protects linked to Evohome, I have my Google phones linked for location data.
It's connected to Alexa and Google for voice control.

Is agree Nest thermostat is great for people that want to replace their single or dual zone controls with something a bit fancier but seeing as the op desires room by room control and not just a fancy basic thermostat is a moot point as Nest simple isn't capable of it.

Tado would be my second choice for room by room control.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Thanks.

Of course I started thinking a replacement thermostat would be good enough. Then I thought that a smart thermostat could do some useful things. A couple of weeks later I'm looking a Evohome

It's good to hear from @robj20 that it seems to deliver all it promises. My ballpark guess is that it's going to be £1,500 or so to have it installed (we probably need about 14 TRVs, a controller and the hot water gizmo which looks like £1K plus a day or two's labour) so it really needs to pay its way.

Nest is attractive because it is much lower cost and integrating with Google but I guess I'd need TRVs no matter what.

 

[mex]

.................................. but I guess I'd need TRVs no matter what.

It would be a good idea to get them fitted, although you don't have to get smart TRV's, you can fit ordinary TRV's at a fraction of the cost.

 

[robj20]

Thanks.

Of course I started thinking a replacement thermostat would be good enough. Then I thought that a smart thermostat could do some useful things. A couple of weeks later I'm looking a Evohome

It's good to hear from @robj20 that it seems to deliver all it promises. My ballpark guess is that it's going to be £1,500 or so to have it installed (we probably need about 14 TRVs, a controller and the hot water gizmo which looks like £1K plus a day or two's labour) so it really needs to pay its way.

Nest is attractive because it is much lower cost and integrating with Google but I guess I'd need TRVs no matter what.

I can certainly see why having it fitted to a system with no trv valves will cost, the actual installation of the thermostat is very easy.
Make sure if you go that route you use the TRV heads without the screens where possible they're a bit cheaper than the ones with screens.

Evohome wise there is a way of spreading the cost and that's to buy just the Evohome controller as a stand alone thermostat. And have traditional TRVs fitted. Then add the Evohome TRVs as time goes on, you don't even have to fully control each room, I have my hall on a traditional TRV so it's on if any other room is on and set to a number on the TRV.

 

[robj20]

It would be a good idea to get them fitted, although you don't have to get smart TRV's, you can fit ordinary TRV's at a fraction of the cost.

Imagine running round the house all the time turning TRVs on and off. It's not what the OP has asked for.

 

[JonathanRyan]

Oh wait.....I've just realised.......

Evohome "TRVs" aren't TRVs at all, are they? They are a remote control for turning an existing TRV on or off - is that right?

Evohome wise there is a way of spreading the cost and that's to buy just the Evohome controller as a stand alone thermostat. And have traditional TRVs fitted. Then add the Evohome TRVs as time goes on, you don't even have to fully control each room, I have my hall on a traditional TRV so it's on if any other room is on and set to a number on the TRV.

So yes, as you say, I could hire my central heating firm to add TRVs (which needs doing anyway) and then add my own Evohomes to it.

Since I have an antiquated thermostat and complex / awkward 7 day timer, would it be a good idea to get the experts to install the controller?

It would be a good idea to get them fitted, although you don't have to get smart TRV's, you can fit ordinary TRV's at a fraction of the cost.

I totally need to do that - I misunderstood what an Evohom "TRV" was. We currently have one rad that has a TRV (which may have got them round Part P). The only reason we didn't get them with the new boiler is that my solicitor insisted the vendors fitted a new boiler before completion. Almost unbelievably they did without charging us. A good solicitor is cheaper than a boiler

 

[AgentOrange76]

I have TRV's on all our radiators and they are set between 2 and 4 out of 5 dependant on the rooms needs. We had no thermostat when we moved in so on the first service had the Honeywell wireless one installed.
I dont see the point of turning on heating when you are 5 minutes from home, i want the house warm when I come in not 2 hours later and if im out i want the residual warm from when we normally have it on for when we get home. The honeywell allows 6 Temperature periods a day which can be different everyday. We have a temperature for 1st thing in the morning, then a day time ambient temperature, an evening level and then an overnight level. you can manual turn it up and down and it resets to the next period.

We are replacing the boiler in the spring and will have a "smart" option fitted but will be used along the same lines as above rather than a remote for out of the house

 

[robj20]

Oh wait.....I've just realised.......

Evohome "TRVs" aren't TRVs at all, are they? They are a remote control for turning an existing TRV on or off - is that right?


So yes, as you say, I could hire my central heating firm to add TRVs (which needs doing anyway) and then add my own Evohomes to it.

Since I have an antiquated thermostat and complex / awkward 7 day timer, would it be a good idea to get the experts to install the controller?



I totally need to do that - I misunderstood what an Evohom "TRV" was. We currently have one rad that has a TRV (which may have got them round Part P). The only reason we didn't get them with the new boiler is that my solicitor insisted the vendors fitted a new boiler before completion. Almost unbelievably they did without charging us. A good solicitor is cheaper than a boiler

Yes I'd get them to install the Evohome thermostat. Then all your need to do is buy the TRV thermostats and add them to the main Evohome thermostat. You'd actually add them to your least used rooms first so that they'd be getting turned off when your not using them like bedrooms.

 

[robj20]

I have TRV's on all our radiators and they are set between 2 and 4 out of 5 dependant on the rooms needs. We had no thermostat when we moved in so on the first service had the Honeywell wireless one installed.
I dont see the point of turning on heating when you are 5 minutes from home, i want the house warm when I come in not 2 hours later and if im out i want the residual warm from when we normally have it on for when we get home. The honeywell allows 6 Temperature periods a day which can be different everyday. We have a temperature for 1st thing in the morning, then a day time ambient temperature, an evening level and then an overnight level. you can manual turn it up and down and it resets to the next period.

We are replacing the boiler in the spring and will have a "smart" option fitted but will be used along the same lines as above rather than a remote for out of the house

Something is wrong if it takes hours to warm a room up.
I can go from say 15c to 20c in about 5 minutes in any room.
With Evohome you have an optimised function where if you set the time instead of coming on at that time it's function is to be at the desired temp at that time so it switches on when it decides to meet that target.
I don't generally turn the heating of at all anymore, it's rare the house is unoccupied for any length of time. But if I do I use a custom nice that just reduces all set temperatures by 3c.
A gap of 3c when coming home takes a couple of minutes to bring the rooms back to full temperature. I can trigger this with either motion sensors, our mobile phones, voice and on the thermostat.

 

[sphexx]

Something is wrong if it takes hours to warm a room up.

Given that the old boiler was antique maybe the rest of the system is inadequate, either not enough radiators or the pipe work. Before my system was upgraded several years ago the radiators were on a single pipe (don’t know what it’s called but the water went from one rad to the next and so on.). It actually worked OK for my house if the radiators were ‘balanced’ but not very satisfactory generally.

 

[srichards]

I have a Tado thermostat. It works really well. It's better than the Hive as the Hive doesn't seem to do (or didn't) a lot of it automatically like the Tado does. If you set up everyone in the household then it will keep the heating lower automatically when everyone is out and then start warming the house when the first person starts to return. I think the Hive you have to say you're out in the app which seems pointless to me. Tado will also start the heating in time so that when someone is returning it's usually warm before they get back.

The Tado you schedule a broad heating times schedule then it does automatic weather compensation and turns it down when everyone is out. It's designed to be at the set temperature by the start time.

There's a boost button so you can tap a button to turn the heating up if it's too cold. You can also have one of their TRVs on each radiator if you want so you can have complete control of all rooms. There's manual control on the main box as well so you can just increase the set temperature whenever you want.

 

[robj20]

Given that the old boiler was antique maybe the rest of the system is inadequate, either not enough radiators or the pipe work. Before my system was upgraded several years ago the radiators were on a single pipe (don’t know what it’s called but the water went from one rad to the next and so on.). It actually worked OK for my house if the radiators were ‘balanced’ but not very satisfactory generally.

Possibly the size of the radiators. Especially if you have a condensing boiler radiators need to be big enough so that the return temperature allows the boiler to condense as they only do at below 55c or so.

 

[mex]

Possibly the size of the radiators. Especially if you have a condensing boiler radiators need to be big enough so that the return temperature allows the boiler to condense as they only do at below 55c or so.

It would struggle to condense on a one-pipe system regardless of rad size......

 

[robj20]

It would struggle to condense on a one-pipe system regardless of rad size......

"Before my system was upgraded several years ago the radiators were on a single pipe"

 

[mex]

Before my system was upgraded several years ago the radiators were on a single pipe (don’t know what it’s called but the water went from one rad to the next and so on.). It actually worked OK for my house if the radiators were ‘balanced’ but not very satisfactory generally.

" Possibly the size of the radiators. Especially if you have a condensing boiler radiators need to be big enough so that the return temperature allows the boiler to condense as they only do at below 55c or so."

 

[sphexx]

" Possibly the size of the radiators. Especially if you have a condensing boiler radiators need to be big enough so that the return temperature allows the boiler to condense as they only do at below 55c or so."

I had the conventional type of boiler previously, whole system was replaced.

 

[admirable]

I have the Hive system, 16 radiators, with TRV's. Huge saving since fitted as it's more about what radiators you can switch off than on.
Example, we only use the dining room for 'posh' occasions as the kitchen is used 95% for most meals so the rad is turned off, same situation with other rooms during the day. If I'm working from home my office rad in on but most of he other rooms are off.
The other plus point is I know the temp in every room, before TRV's I only knew the number setting on the TRV.

 

[sphexx]

I have 3 rooms that are hardly used except for rare visitors but I still heat them to some extent as I fear stuff would be liable to become damp (a lot of clothes in one, books in another, things that would corrode in the third) if I heated in the winter with little air circulation.

 

[Pound Coin]

I've had Hive for a few years. Can't recommend it or brief against it as I don't know other systems.

We have Heating, Hot Water and about 10 TRVs. We can set rooms to different temperatures at different times of the day, and make the guest/kids rooms colder when they aren't here. It is difficult to say if the (are recently) added TRVs have made a difference, because they coincided with a new boiler, and a lot of winter lockdown.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

TRV's should have been fitted a year ago with the boiler to comply with part L of building regs

That's not an actual requirement for a property that's not a new build, although they are strongly recommended.
The requirement is to have both time and Temperature control and a roomstat provides temperature control.

 

[JonathanRyan]

So I have the quote. It's about 5 1/2K to fit a Honeywell system with wireless TRVs. There are good reasons for that - the majority of the quote is actually for the TRVs because we have Yorkshire Imperial valves and they don't play nicely with modern TRVs.

We also have a lot of radiators

I'm now looking at options of fitting some TRVs and later upgrading to radio ones. People who have fitted Nest/Hive/Honeywell - what's your experience of DIY upgrading TRVs to smart TRVs?

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

So I have the quote. It's about 5 1/2K to fit a Honeywell system with wireless TRVs. There are good reasons for that - the majority of the quote is actually for the TRVs because we have Yorkshire Imperial valves and they don't play nicely with modern TRVs.

We also have a lot of radiators

I'm now looking at options of fitting some TRVs and later upgrading to radio ones. People who have fitted Nest/Hive/Honeywell - what's your experience of DIY upgrading TRVs to smart TRVs?

Hive is easy...

View: https://youtu.be/R9cCz2agwTs

 

[JonathanRyan]

Hive is easy...

View: https://youtu.be/R9cCz2agwTs

Thanks. Looks easy enough

Pretty much decided that I'll have to pay the plumber for the things I can't do (TRVs, wiring a new controller) and DIY the rest (add smart valves as and when). Looks like Hive vales are £54 and Honeywell are £59 ish and should both be easy to fit. Now to decide on a controller....

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Thanks. Looks easy enough

Pretty much decided that I'll have to pay the plumber for the things I can't do (TRVs, wiring a new controller) and DIY the rest (add smart valves as and when). Looks like Hive vales are £54 and Honeywell are £59 ish and should both be easy to fit. Now to decide on a controller....

I don't think hive valves will work unless you have a hive controller....