Slut Walks UK

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Webber2 said:
On a similar note, there's also a naked bike ride going on in Portsmouth and Southampton today.
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and people wonder why photographers get branded as perverts :'(
 
leftcurl said:
a bump for this as it's on tonight in Manchester... details here
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so on a friday night in manchester 2000 women are going to be walking arround in revealing clothing - thats situation normal isnt it :lol:
 
malo50 said:
I heard an interview with one of the organisers of these walks. They are an attempt to reclaim the word slut and rid it of it's negative connotations. They want to do with the word slut what the rap community have don with the N word and the gay community have done with the word queer.

I am having a fat, bald and dodgy beard march, next week.
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I didn't know there were any negative connotations to the word 'slut' ! I love everything about the word...it can be dangerous though..; it has that certain ring to it that when ever you hear it, you just about break your neck ;) hahaa...
 
I've no idea why this has taken off to be honest, but if they want to walk about in their underwear that's fine by me. Hope the weather was good.

Interesting bit by Germain Greer in the papers today: The word slut denotes a "woman of dirty, slovenly, or untidy habits," and was most often once used to refer to kitchen maids, who were also suspected of being "dirty" in their sex habits, notes Greer.

A little knowledge here misleads. Historically, the primary attribute of a slut is not promiscuity but dirt. The word denotes a "woman of dirty, slovenly, or untidy habits or appearance; a foul slattern". A now obsolete meaning connects it with a kitchen maid, whose life was lived in soot and grease. She was too dirty to be allowed above stairs, but drudged out her painful life scraping pans and riddling ash, for 16 hours a day, and then retreated to her squalid lodging where hot water could not be had. The corner she left unswept was the slut corner; the fluff that collected under the furniture was a slut ball. People who thought of sex as dirt suspected the lazy kitchen maid of being unclean in that way as well.
 
Went to this in London yesterday. I found no hostility to photographers as previously suggested. However must say the photos that I posted on Flickr have got the most hits ever,tagging is everything. Funny that!!
 
Poah ive removed 2 of your posts, if I have to remove another, you'll be taking some time off.
 
matty said:
Poah ive removed 2 of your posts, if I have to remove another, you'll be taking some time off.
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for what reason? I'm I not allowed to joke that someone is perv for going to
one of these walks which echos the point made by someone else earlier in this thread.
 
you spend to long making jokes that offend too many people. many reports about your postings recently, and im getting a bit fed up with it.
 
i mostly like poah, but of late, his name has popped up in reported threads way too many times
 
duttytd said:
Well I like POAH and I like matty but which one do I like best?

There's only one way to find out!

FFFFIIIIIIGGGHHHHTTTTT!!!!!
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Matty has the banhammer, it'd be a very boring fight...

And I just hope that anyone photographing these protests was doing it for genuine reasons, rather than to add to their "personal collection", and acted normally and politely and non-letchingly.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
And I just hope that anyone photographing these protests was doing it for genuine reasons, rather than to add to their "personal collection", and acted normally and politely and non-letchingly.
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looking at the photos paul took they arent dressed that revealingly anyway - you see girls wearing considerably less most friday nights in any city or town
 
big soft moose said:
looking at the photos paul took they arent dressed that revealingly anyway - you see girls wearing considerably less most friday nights in any city or town
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The idea behind it is more a politcical statement than fashion statement :thumbs: some of the posts through the thread seem to be written by 14 year olds though , very little thought behind them and very immature.
 
I don't see any issue with photographing events such as this, same with other protests or demos. Social documentary, editorial, it'll be a talking point of the year.
 
I was there on Saturday and got some photos that you can see here.

The protest isn't about reclaiming the word 'slut' but about changing society's attitudes, and especially those of the police, the CPS, and the courts, towards rape and sexual abuse; and not just of women and girls, but everybody.
 
I really don't think they are helping their own cause.
Yes, rape is an awful crime, but you wont stop it that way. Human nature is what it is, in the same way as some people will nick anything not bolted down, you wont deter them by having a demo either..
Yes, what the Canadian Police Officer apparently said, may have been wrong or put wrongly, I've not read all of what he said, so I'll reserve judgment on that, but maybe he has a point in a way. It's a shame that the people on the march didn't look at it from both sides.
The Police and home office spend millions in advertising to reduce crime like theft, burglary by giving advice to reduce risk. I'd expect the Canadian was trying to do that, and it's back fired!
Back to the subject of rape, it's a very easy allegation to make, and one hell of an uphill struggle if you are the accused to disprove. Often it boils down to one word, if it was said, if it was heard, or if the man should have realised that it was a no go. Thats is often what the evidence boils down too. DNA only proves contact, often not disputed, it does not prove consent though. So either we change the presumption of innocence, which isn't a good idea, and is likely to lead to a huge number of innocent people doing time, or we have to live with an imperfect system.
Unfortunately, there are a fair number of false allegations, which is where the effort needs to be focused if you want to change the attitude to rape.
 
Bernie174 said:
so I'll reserve judgment on that, but maybe he has a point in a way.
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Please define what point he had in saying that by changing the way a woman dresses is going to deter a rapist? Really I would like to hear it.

Back to the subject of rape, it's a very easy allegation to make, and one hell of an uphill struggle if you are the accused to disprove. Often it boils down to one word, if it was said, if it was heard, or if the man should have realised that it was a no go. Thats is often what the evidence boils down too. DNA only proves contact, often not disputed, it does not prove consent though. So either we change the presumption of innocence, which isn't a good idea, and is likely to lead to a huge number of innocent people doing time, or we have to live with an imperfect system.
Unfortunately, there are a fair number of false allegations, which is where the effort needs to be focused if you want to change the attitude to rape.
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What does this have to do with Slutwalk? The idea of this protest is to take the idea that clothing or womens attire is not to blame for sexual assualt of any kind, as some defence lawyers still trot this out in court. It's not only offensive to women but to men to, as if the sight of a woman in a short skirt is enough to send a man into a frenzy of sexual assault. :bonk: I dont actually feel like reclaiming the word slut but the point of this campaign is very valid in its own right.

Anyway, get your pictures posted!
 
Firstly I whole heartedly agree that a woman should be able to choose how she wants to dress, any individual should.

There is however some undeniable logic that a lady provocatively dressed may be statistically more at risk of rape than a lady who is dressed more conservatively.

I don’t believe this is derogatory to men on the whole as you say, men do not go crazy over a girl in a short skirt but perhaps the kind of man who would rape a girl would? I’d like to think there is pretty huge difference between the type of man that would rape someone and those that wouldn’t.

Even if you just looked at a premeditated rapist (I guess these are pretty rare) if there were two women side by side one dressed conservatively and one dressed less so I think it’s a pretty safe bet that which one would be most likely to be targeted. Would you disagree?

In no way do I make a leap here that women ‘ask’ to be raped by the way they dress and in no way do I suggest that the blame lies anywhere other than with the rapist himself.

I can’t of course back this up… It just seems to make logical sense to me. Perhaps you disagree?
 
Nick_A said:
Firstly I whole heartedly agree that a woman should be able to choose how she wants to dress, any individual should.

There is however some undeniable logic that a lady provocatively dressed may be statistically more at risk of rape than a lady who is dressed more conservatively.

I don’t believe this is derogatory to men on the whole as you say, men do not go crazy over a girl in a short skirt but perhaps the kind of man who would rape a girl would? I’d like to think there is pretty huge difference between the type of man that would rape someone and those that wouldn’t.

Even if you just looked at a premeditated rapist (I guess these are pretty rare) if there were two women side by side one dressed conservatively and one dressed less so I think it’s a pretty safe bet that which one would be most likely to be targeted. Would you disagree?

In no way do I make a leap here that women ‘ask’ to be raped by the way they dress and in no way do I suggest that the blame lies anywhere other than with the rapist himself.

I can’t of course back this up… It just seems to make logical sense to me. Perhaps you disagree?
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I absoloutely disagree and really can't see what this undeniable logic is? What makes you so sure that a man would rape a woman with a short skirt? You are somehow implying that rape is about sexual satisfaction which it isn't, sex and masturbation are. Rape is about power, humilitation and abuse, and if I were to use the same black and white logic you do then I would say the rapist is more likely to go for the conservatively dressed woman in order to take her power. But I won't because rapists dont have a 'type'.

Edit: sorry if this sound hostile, it isnt supposed to :)
 
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Vic said:
What makes you so sure that a man would rape a woman with a short skirt?
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Where did he say that?

Are you taking this?

There is however some undeniable logic that a lady provocatively dressed may be statistically more at risk of rape than a lady who is dressed more conservatively.
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and twisting it so it reads he is sure a women with a short skirt will be raped?

I dont mind debate and even argument.. but putting words in other peoples mouths is a poor way of doing it IMHO
 
KIPAX said:
Where did he say that?

Are you taking this?



and twisting it so it reads he is sure a women with a short skirt will be raped?

I dont mind debate and even argument.. but putting words in other peoples mouths is a poor way of doing it IMHO
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Perhaps its my glib interpretation but he is saying it is his undeniable logic that women provactively dressed are may may be statistically more at risk of being raped. It's his 'logic' and there are no statistics to prove this so I am taking it as this is his belief.

If it is harsh to Nick then I apologise.

Anything constructive you would like to add to this debate/argument?
 
it isn't abut sexual satisfaction? I had always assumed that was it's main function with the power etc coming lower down the 'order' as reasons for rape.

If I'm wrong then perhaps what people are wearing really does make no difference.

I cant understand why someone would rape someone if it wasn't at least in part about a sexual thing surely there are worse things you could do to someone to humiliate them and show power over them if it was in no way connected to sex? :shrug:

I guess this is the real key then, if it is in no way sexual AT ALL then you are right there is no logic in saying how a woman is dressed COULD increase her chance of being raped. If of course it is sexual then I believe it could.

I hope didn't offend in anyway I tried to word it so that it's obvious I agree that women should be able to dress however they like and that no blame should be put on the lady for the way she is dressed.
 
KIPAX said:
Agree 100% with every word...
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Me too!!!

It's a sad state of affairs when women have to think twice about what they wear in case they attract the wrong type of attention (in the most extreme sense).

I suppose going back a few years, the worst that was likely to happen was that people/society would judge women as promiscuous if they dressed in a way deemed inappropriate but now women are at greater physical risk.

Having said that, it's certainly not just "fit" scantily clad women who get attacked, I've heard many cases where pensioners have been attacked by blokes young enough to be their grandsons!!! The people who commit these crimes are just sick in the head and it's probably more of a power thing with them rather than sexual gratification.

Although these extreme sickos are (thankfully) quite rare, the mentality of a lot of blokes (especially after consuming alcohol) is that if a woman is dressed in a certain way, they're obviously more "up for it" :shrug:

This is when you enter the realms of "date rape" (although I hate that term) and when no means no etc, so to an extent by dressing a little more conservatively, a woman is less likely to find herself in this situation. Of course this is wrong and women should be able to dress how they like (within reason of course) but as I said at the start, it's just how the World is today :'(

For me the jury is out on these walks, the advice given by the Canadian police was clumsy at best but not a lot different to telling people not to leave phones/laptops on display in your car, at the end of the day, it's your laptop and it's your car so people should leave your stuff alone but we all know someone will break into the car and steal it!

Obviously that's a much simpler scenario and only involves material possessions but hopefully you get where I'm coming from?
 
Nick, you didnt offend me and I respect the intention of your argument.

Of course there is a sexual element to rape, its physical form proves this, however a rapists victim choice is rarely based on aesthetic appearance, unless that leads to deeper psychological problems, but on how much they can control their victim and have absolute power.

Of course there are shades of grey and you are entitled to your opinion, I just feel that a womans attire rarely relates to their rape however there are people that want others to believe this.
 
Vic said:
Of course there are shades of grey and you are entitled to your opinion, I just feel that a womans attire rarely relates to their rape however there are people that want others to believe this.
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millions of dads every day look in horror and stop there young daughters going out of the house in skimpy clothing.. guess they are all wrong as well...

But it doesn matter if they are wrong.. thats the way of the world.. Never heard of a dad stopping there daughter going out in jumper and jeans and telling them to go put a mini skirt and boob tube on..

have you got young daughters Vic.. anf yes then do you not have restrictions on what they wear?.
 
I'm not sure on the statistics so cant really comment on rape in general... are most cases between people who are in a relationship/married? this obviously isn't down to what a woman wears

What we are really talking about is rape against a stranger and my feeling is here sexual attraction probably does play a part, to me this seems logical (I respect your opinion that it doesn't though). I would say how a lady is dressed makes at least some impact on attractiveness, it certainly does for me.

hopefully that explains my thinking
 
KIPAX said:
millions of dads every day look in horror and stop there young daughters going out of the house in skimpy clothing.. guess they are all wrong as well...

But it doesn matter if they are wrong.. thats the way of the world.. Never heard of a dad stopping there daughter going out in jumper and jeans and telling them to go put a mini skirt and boob tube on..

have you got young daughters Vic.. anf yes then do you not have restrictions on what they wear?.
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Yes in a way I think they are wrong. Extremely, extremely well intentioned but wrong. Where have the fathers got the idea that the way their daughters dress might get them sexually assaulted? The tabloids in all probability, because it certainly isn't hard fact. They have read in so many rags and heard so many stories that understandably they are trying their best to protect their children. Like I say understandable but wrong.
 
Vic said:
Of course there is a sexual element to rape, its physical form proves this, however a rapists victim choice is rarely based on aesthetic appearance, unless that leads to deeper psychological problems, but on how much they can control their victim and have absolute power.

Of course there are shades of grey and you are entitled to your opinion, I just feel that a womans attire rarely relates to their rape however there are people that want others to believe this.
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Hi Vic, I think the point Nick and myself was trying to make relates to two different kinds of rape, one being someone who is psychologically different to "normal" people where apprearence and clothing makes no odds and the second scenario being where a scantily clad woman is seen by a drunken man as "up for it" when she's just out for a night with the girls and he doesn't take no for an answer, in this situation it's purely a sexual thing but equally as appauling as the first scenario.
 
Russ77 said:
Hi Vic, I think the point Nick and myself was trying to make relates to two different kinds of rape, one being someone who is psychologically different to "normal" people where apprearence and clothing makes no odds and the second scenario being where a scantily clad woman is seen by a drunken man as "up for it" when she's just out for a night with the girls and he doesn't take no for an answer, in this situation it's purely a sexual thing but equally as appauling as the first scenario.
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Hi Russ, I can see where you and Nick are coming from and to be honest we both seem to have differing opinions on this and we could round and round. It's good to have some debate on a relevant issue :)
 
Vic said:
Hi Russ, I can see where you and Nick are coming from and to be honest we both seem to have differing opinions on this and we could round and round. It's good to have some debate on a relevant issue :)
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I don't think we have differing opinions tbh.

Anyone bloke who attacks a woman is a wrong'un (toned down what I usually call these scumbags).

Women should be able to wear what they like (within the realms of decency, time/place and all that) without fear of their attire getting them into any kind of trouble.

BUT (there's always a but :lol: ) an attractive woman who is dressed more provocatively will get more sexual-based attention than and old frump dressed like a nun/librarian. I hope you don't think I'm being sexist here 'cos I'm not, it's human nature and part of our inherent instinct to want to mate.

Now most decent blokes will override this "urge" but some wont and they'll assume the female in question does want to mate whether she wants to or not but regardless of how she's dressed this behaviour is completely wrong.

By virtue of this, a woman who is less "sexily" dressed will draw less sexual attention (although one man's version of "sexy" is different to another but that's a whole other topic :lol: )

Then (as said before) there are some blokes that a screwed in the head and will attack women regardless of age/appearance and it's more about power than the actual act itself.
 
I've just thought of another example.....

By and large, rape is carried out by men and not women. I know there are exceptions but they are few and far between.

I'm a straight bloke and I've been to a gay bar with some mgay friends and my girl friend. I was dressed in jeans and a shirt (nothing particularly sexy) and a few "regulars" asked my gay friends if I was gay.

Now let's say I went back in there on my own wearing (stereotypically) a very tight shirt with the top 2-3 buttons undone and spray-on jeans with tear in one of the ar5e cheeks.

Dressed like that I certainly wouldn't want to drop any change in the gents and IMO if I did get some "over the top" attention I would say I'd asked for it.

(This is kinda meant in a light-hearted way and just to add another spin to it)
 
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