Slightly overweight, advice please?

[petersmart]

Gahhhh.

Which weighs more. A kilo of muscle or a kilo of fat? Muscle is denser than fat.

It's also impossible to turn fat into muscle - different tissue types.

Pet peeve of mine in case you hadn't guessed.

BMI is a good indicator for the average person. If you're a body builder or similar then maybe not.

Hate to point out the obvious but a kilo is a kilo whether muscle or fat.

Your second point IS correct.

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[Islander]

Hate to point out the obvious but a kilo is a kilo whether muscle or fat.

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Ermmmm that's what I was picking up on.

 

[petersmart]

I've read something along those lines too..... 100cals of protein is processed differently to 100cals of carbs so calorie content is only part of the story.

The essential difference is that carbs provide the energy for your body in terms of sugars which are converted into glycogen and glucose while proteins are converted into amino acids and used to build muscles.

In terms of ease of conversion the 3 main types are

1.Fat - very easily converted from ingested fat to body fat.
2.Carbohydrates - less easily converted into energy via glycogen -> glucose and reverse. and also into fat when excess is present.
3.Protein - least easy for the body to convert into muscles via the conversion to and from amino acids.

In essence protein builds muscles and carbs (and sometimes fat) provide the energy for the muscles to use.

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[petersmart]

what does having an emotional attachment to food mean?

Being a Gannet.

Consuming everything in sight.

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[petersmart]

I think kipax is in the wrong profession by the sounds of it.

Judging by his knowledge of this subject and the quality of his photographs I would say he is in exactly the RIGHT profession

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[joescrivens]

Consume it at 7am and he will use a lot of it over the day including at least some of the extra fat - consume it at night and he will not.

so Dave and John do the exact same amount of exercise and sleep the same hours every day. They also consume the exact same food.

The only difference is that dave eats three meals at 7am, 12pm and 4pm.

John eats 3 meals. One at 3pm and one at 5pm and one at 9pm.

they both go to sleep at 10pm

Are you saying that John is going to put on weight more than dave even though he eats the same amount and does the same amount of exercise.

 

[petersmart]

so Dave and John do the exact same amount of exercise and sleep the same hours every day. They also consume the exact same food.

The only difference is that dave eats three meals at 7am, 12pm and 4pm.

John eats 3 meals. One at 3pm and one at 5pm and one at 9pm.

they both go to sleep at 10pm

Are you saying that John is going to put on weight more than dave even though he eats the same amount and does the same amount of exercise.

Too simplistic to give any kind of meaningful answer.

Age, body weight, job, hours worked at job, hours spent in leisure activities and what kind - all of these are just the beginning.

Also total calories consumed during the day etc.

And the weight gains/losses have to estimated over the long term and other side effects as well.

The only thing I can say is that Dave is likely to be healthier and fitter than John and weigh less because he will be utilising the available calories in a more even manner resulting in better insulin regulation.

However neither of them are really eating properly since both have long periods with no nutrition meaning that while Dave is sleeping he may lose lean body tissue as his body uses muscle tissue for energy (which incidentally is the reason many bodybuilders often eat chicken or turkey breasts during the night when getting ready for a competition since it stops this process).

John on the other hand is eating all his calories in a 6 hour period when he is coming up to resting and sleeping which requires much less calories so a lot of his intake will be stored as fat (see#119)

Then next day he will be going 18 hours with no food at all during which time his body will have to start converting that stored fat back into energy once his glycogen and glucose store has become depleted.

Unfortunately while the body can easily store fat using it for energy is more difficult especially if it is just body fat and has not been stored in the muscles.

In this case once again in addition to breaking down the fat for energy John's body may also start using lean body tissue (muscles) for energy.

So John may be losing lean body tissue while at the same time also slowly getting fatter.

The sheer complexity of the body and our own evolution over thousands of years means that any simplistic answers to dieting etc are usually based upon the wrong conceptions.

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[BazEP]

Petersmart - have you heard of intermittent fasting? What's your take on it?

I think on the whole you talk sense but you've made a few leaps on a couple of areas that don't make sense, e.g. The body "craving" fat (how?), the body readily turning dietary fat in to body fat, and still all maintaining that all cals are the same.

 

[nilagin]

What????

The body HAS to use calories even when you're asleep, how do you think your heart manages to keep beating?

And that's ignoring the fact that there are thousands (more) other vital functions going on that also need calories.

The amount of calories is a negligible amount compared to waking hours. It's been reported that you'd have to run something like 11 miles just to burn off the calories from eating a big mac. You don't need to eat late to sleep. I never eat any later than 7:30, but as I said will drink a protien shake to help my body repair itself after the workout I've had in the gym at the start of the day.

 

[petersmart]

Petersmart - have you heard of intermittent fasting? What's your take on it?

I think on the whole you talk sense but you've made a few leaps on a couple of areas that don't make sense, e.g. The body "craving" fat (how?), the body readily turning dietary fat in to body fat, and still all maintaining that all cals are the same.

I have heard of intermittant fasting (I presume you mean eating normally and then having no food for say 1 or 2 days) but it still gives the same problems as mentioned above - once your body goes into a calorie deficit there is a real danger that it will use up lean body tissue (muscle tissue) as well as using up fat and your body metabolism will slow down as your body goes into "starvation" mode leading to far less weight loss than hoped for.

This mechanism comes from the many thousands of years of evolution when food was anything but plentiful and famine was an ever present danger - in that case our bodies slowed down our metabolism to conserve what meagre supplies of energy we had left.

We still have that mechanism today because 60 years of relatively plentiful food cannot overcome the thousands of years of evolution - which is also why I said our bodies "crave" fat - because fat is the densest form of energy and our evolution has led to our bodies storing any excess food as fat - simply because it is the most efficient form of energy storage.

Remember for most of our existence we have lived in times of alternating famine and excess and had to store all the energy we could when it was available against the times that energy (food) would not be available -and so we stored fat.

And that is also why any excess food is stored as fat - because for most of our existence we had to in order to survive the times of famine in much the same way as many animals will build up their fat reserves before hibernating - in order to survive long periods with no food.

Also a certain amount of fat is a necessity to cushion most of our organs and for many other things such as sitting comfortably.

It has also been proved that eating fat and protein will keep you feeling fuller for longer - which is the reason why the Atkins diet actually does work - simply because most people on it consume less calories than they need to maintain their weight - so they lose weight.

Chemically dietary fat is much close to the chemical composition of body fat then either carbs or proteins so it is much easier for the body to convert dietary fat to body fat (which it will do readily thanks to evolution) than to convert carbs to fat or protein to fat.

I didn't say that all calories are the same since they are not - fat has more calories than either carbs or protein and fibre has no calories at all - which is why celery is the only food where eating it uses more calories than it provides.

However calories are calories and no matter how you get them the simple rule is that if you ingest more calories then your body needs to maintain a certain weight you will put on weight - use less calories and you will lose weight.

But to maintain health and fitness the type of weight you lose is important - far better to lose body fat than lean tissue for example.

Lastly the only long term way to lose weight and stay fitter is exercise and eating wisely - "fad" diets simply don't work for long because they ignore thousands of years of evolution.

There are many other factors clouding the whole subject of losing weight but hope this has answered some of your questions.

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[Russ77]

The amount of calories is a negligible amount compared to waking hours. It's been reported that you'd have to run something like 11 miles just to burn off the calories from eating a big mac. You don't need to eat late to sleep. I never eat any later than 7:30, but as I said will drink a protien shake to help my body repair itself after the workout I've had in the gym at the start of the day.

Who said anything about a big mac??

You said you don't burn any calories during sleep which is complete rubbish to be frank.......... It's like saying a car doesn't use any fuel when it's idling

However I do agree with the Breakfast like a king, supper like a pauper theory but obviously a nice greasy fry-up is out of the window

 

[nilagin]

Who said anything about a big mac??

You said you don't burn any calories during sleep which is complete rubbish to be frank.......... It's like saying a car doesn't use any fuel when it's idling

My point is if the body has to work that hard to burn off the many calories from a big mac, you will be burning off very little when the body is pretty much dormant during sleep especially if it were someone who gets little exercise during the hours they were awake. Wouldn't think that too hard to figure out.

 

[Russ77]

My point is if the body has to work that hard to burn off the many calories from a big mac, you will be burning off very little when the body is pretty much dormant during sleep especially if it were someone who gets little exercise during the hours they were awake. Wouldn't think that too hard to figure out.

I don't need to figure anything out, I understand the principles that the less you do the less calories you use but you clearly stated that you don't burn ANY calories when you sleep which is wrong..........

As others have said, if you have been exercising your metabolism can remain elevated for up to 24hrs meaning you could still be using calories at a decent rate.

 

[petersmart]

I don't need to figure anything out, I understand the principles that the less you do the less calories you use but you clearly stated that you don't burn ANY calories when you sleep which is wrong..........

As others have said, if you have been exercising your metabolism can remain elevated for up to 24hrs meaning you could still be using calories at a decent rate.

When you're sleeping you burn approx 70cals/hr depending on body weight etc.

If you want your metabolism to increase then you need to do HIIT (high intensity interval training where you expend so much energy over a very short period that your body takes the next 24 hrs or so recovering from it:

http://www.notyouraveragefitnesstip...t-cardio-for-weight-loss-hiit-workout-routine

HOWEVER if you have never trained before, are over 50, or are very overweight - CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR and request a STRESS TEST at the local hospital before even attempting HIIT - IT CAN KILL YOU if you have any kind of heart problem!!!

And NEVER EVER attempt it shortly after a meal!!

Failing that spend at least 3 MONTHS in getting your body acclimatised to exercise with much lower levels of exercise such as walking about 2-3 miles a day etc gradually increasing the level of these exercises by walking faster etc.

If like me you find walking extremely boring or with the winter now here you don't want to go out when it's raining etc then a very good piece of equipment is an AIR WALKER - I myself have the Tony Little Gazelle:

http://www.gazelle-products.com/

so I can get all the benefits of walking while watching a DVD indoors (any DVD featuring lots of gratuitous violence to also get the pulse rate up lol)

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[nilagin]

So I missed an m in front of any. How many out of 2000 calories do you think a body will use during sleep for someone who gets no exercise other than their daily routine of get up go to work come home eat watch tv, go to bed and their heart rate never increases properly from exertion or even works up a sweat. It will be a very tiny miniscule percentage.

 

[petersmart]

So I missed an m in front of any. How many out of 2000 calories do you think a body will use during sleep for someone who gets no exercise other than their daily routine of get up go to work come home eat watch tv, go to bed and their heart rate never increases properly from exertion or even works up a sweat. It will be a very tiny miniscule percentage.

In fact if you sleep for 6-8 hrs it will be approx 400-600 calories for an average man so approx 25-30% of total calories consumed.

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[srichards]

I'm sure I saw some experiments on the tv with feeding people the same diets and observed that some people put on more weight than others and others lost more on the same intake. It boiled down to two things - some people have metabolisms that increase when more food is added so they burn it off faster and other people twitch/fidget and burn extra energy that way.

Diet drinks/foods etc make you eat more calories. They seem to fool the body so I'd avoid them. Especially artificial sweetners and their ilk. Chemical crap frankly. Have normal brown sugar and just have a bit less.

Eat less, do more. Any diet works if you consume fewer calories. Also sleep more as there seems to be a correlation between sleeping less and being more overweight.

The best diet makes sure you don't get hungry and want to eat too much. If you eat little and often then a) you keep your digestive system working and that uses energy b) your blood sugar level remains more stable c) you don't get ravenous and then want to empty the fridge.

I'd watch the food hospital on 40d and channel 4 as that has some useful information about keeping moods better with just diet. If you are down about your weight then consoling yourself with food isn't the best answer unless it is fresh fruit and veg. Funny how it never is and that is only a biscuit or cake that works

 

[Russ77]

In fact if you sleep for 6-8 hrs it will be approx 400-600 calories for an average man so approx 25-30% of total calories consumed.

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Which (according to the gym equipment I use) around the amount I use during a lunchtime workout

 

[petersmart]

Which (according to the gym equipment I use) around the amount I use during a lunchtime workout

You must REALLY work out to burn that much calories in (I presume less than an hour?) your lunchtime.

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[Leslie]

Lastly the only long term way to lose weight and stay fitter is exercise and eating wisely - "fad" diets simply don't work for long because they ignore thousands of years of evolution.
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Couldn't agree more with this

IMO the weight you lose should almost be a side effect. If you eat sensibly and exercise you will be healthier. If you were overweight before you started then you will lose weight. Fact.

 

[simonw]

You must REALLY work out to burn that much calories in (I presume less than an hour?) your lunchtime.

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Doesn't seem a lot to me to burn in an hour. I regularly do that in less than an hour - if the readings on the gym equipment are to believed.

 

[joescrivens]

Doesn't seem a lot to me to burn in an hour. I regularly do that in less than an hour - if the readings on the gym equipment are to believed.

and there's your answer

those gym equipment readings are a guess at best

 

[Leslie]

The readings on gym equipment should always be taken as a guide and not gospel.

However running 1 mile burns approximately 100 calories (again everyone will be slightly different) So 4 miles at 7 and a half minutes per mile burns 400 calories in 30 minutes.

 

[Russ77]

You must REALLY work out to burn that much calories in (I presume less than an hour?) your lunchtime.

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Well I did add the caveat about "according to the machines I use".....

My weight is just under 100KG, I do 10 mins on a X-trainer starting at level 10 and increasing by 2 levels every 2 mins, by the time I hit level 18 I can hardly move the thing but up until the 8 min mark I do my best to maintain 70RPM or more, that normally registers 200-215 cals used

Then straight on to the treadmill, 1 min walking at 6KMH, 1 min running at 13.5 (or more) KMH for 10 mins, this normally shows around 150 cals used.

Finally I hit the rower on full resistance and try to do 2000m in 8 mins or less and this shows 130-150 cals used.

For the next 5-10 mins conversation with anyone is pretty much out of the question

I aim to do that at least twice a week with resistance training followed by an interval run inbetween.

 

[simonw]

and there's your answer

those gym equipment readings are a guess at best

Not a guess - but an estimate based on certain assumptions based on distance travelled

 

[joescrivens]

Not a guess - but an estimate based on certain assumptions based on distance travelled

otherwise known as:

a guess

 

[petersmart]

Well I did add the caveat about "according to the machines I use".....

My weight is just under 100KG, I do 10 mins on a X-trainer starting at level 10 and increasing by 2 levels every 2 mins, by the time I hit level 18 I can hardly move the thing but up until the 8 min mark I do my best to maintain 70RPM or more, that normally registers 200-215 cals used

Then straight on to the treadmill, 1 min walking at 6KMH, 1 min running at 13.5 (or more) KMH for 10 mins, this normally shows around 150 cals used.

Finally I hit the rower on full resistance and try to do 2000m in 8 mins or less and this shows 130-150 cals used.

For the next 5-10 mins conversation with anyone is pretty much out of the question

I aim to do that at least twice a week with resistance training followed by an interval run inbetween.

Even reading that makes me break out into a sweat

You must be extremely fit and strong.

Congratulations.

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[Russ77]

Even reading that makes me break out into a sweat

You must be extremely fit and strong.

Congratulations.

.

I wish!!! I suppose compared to say a lot of the blokes I work with around my age (34) who drink/smoke I am........

By my own standards, compared to when I was a teenager and would cycle 15-20 miles a day without thinking about it there's a lot of room for improvement :nuts:

About 4 years ago as part of some pre-season cricket training I did a bleep-test, think I got up to level 9 or 10 and according to the coach my level of fitness was "very good"..... the ironic thing was at the time I wasn't exercising at all and until Feb 2010 I haden't been anywhere near a gym for about 8 years

I'm slowly trying to get to grips with the whole nutrition thing as my diet is quite limited (I'm a fussy b****r when it comes to eating) and don't eat salad and fish which are traditionally foods that you could use as part of a healthy eating plan.

I try and get to the gym 4 times a week in my lunch break but on the nutrition side as most people find, trying to fit in 4-5 small, "balanced" meals per day takes a hell of a lot of forward planning :bang:

 

[zak5ive]

Someone posted the easiest solution very early on.....eat less, exercise more...plain and simple!
Small changes to what you eat can make a huge difference to your daily calorie intake, reading nutritional info labels is the key.

Very true. I recently joined a group run by the NHS called 'weight matters' which encourages just that, small changes, watch what you eat and increase exercise. Simples

 

[BazEP]

Petersmart - can you briefly just confirm whether you think every calorie impacts your body the same way from a fat storage and usage perspective. You seem to be contradicting yourself in this regard.

I'm well read on the Paleo approach to eating, which you intimate in one of your posts but you seem to have missed the fundamentals of it.

As for using calories at rest, lean body mass uses more cals at rest which is one of the main reasons for exercising, specifically resistance training.

 

[Dr_O]

BMI always makes me smile- when I did vale tudo mine was around 29 I recall even although my body fat was 6%. While I appreciate it can be a guide I think it's overrated and frequently misused.

Weight is difficult- requires a lifestyle change in my opinion- diets are just not the long term answer. I obsess over my weight and although I know from measurements I am likely to not be fat, I constantly look at myself and am disgusted by my fatness. It's rare moments like this that I work out I'm probably not- everyone has their demons

OP- Perhaps you should go and see a nutritionist- talk through your diet, foods and their properties. Or do some reading - a couple of your questions suggest you would benefit from improving your understanding of food.

 

[big soft moose]

I have been told by the nurse that i am slightly overweight. This has really got me depressed as it's also the run up to Christmas, and the gym where I live is very expensive. Can you advise me please what I should do to lose weight?

I cycle and admit i should get out on my bike more.

First up i havent read the whole thread

that aside i'd note that my missus is doing well with slimming world - she's lost about 2.5 stone in the last 3 months.

personally i wouldnt call 5,6 and 11 stone overweight its certainly not usually a cause for concern healthwise. that said though within reason its really about whether you feel happy with how you look which is a call only you can make.

 

[petersmart]

Petersmart - can you briefly just confirm whether you think every calorie impacts your body the same way from a fat storage and usage perspective. You seem to be contradicting yourself in this regard.

I'm well read on the Paleo approach to eating, which you intimate in one of your posts but you seem to have missed the fundamentals of it.

As for using calories at rest, lean body mass uses more cals at rest which is one of the main reasons for exercising, specifically resistance training.

I'm not even sure what the Paleo approach is never having heard of it.

In terms of pure physics calories are calories no matter how they are derived and if you REGULARLY run a calorie deficit you will lose weight - and if you regularly ingest more calories than you need to maintain a certain body weight you will put on weight - usually in the form of fat for reasons already explained.

As already explained different foods have different amounts of calories and different foods are processed differently by our bodies so in those terms the calories derived from these foods ARE different.

But you must remember that our bodies are extremely adaptable and trying to maintain one type of anything, whether it be diet, exercise or bodybuilding is always doomed to failure as our bodies adapt to them.

So if you try to lose weight only by dieting you will lose weight but at the expense of some lean body mass and a general slowing down of all metabolic functions leading to lethargy, tiredness etc, leading to "plateauing" where the loss of weight gradually tapers off as your body goes into "starvation" mode.

Which is why bodybuilders constantly change their exercise routines so as to defeat the plateau effect.

And different people have different metabolic rates so can burn off more calories than those with slower metabolisms which is one reason for exercising - and HIIT can speed up your metabolism to a rate which lasts for 24 hours or so.

And yes lean body mass does burn more calories but not only at rest - larger muscles use more calories whether working, playing, exercising or sleeping. but in the overall picture the extra calories burned at sleep by larger muscles is not very much.

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[gramps]

I haven't read the whole thread either but "slightly overweight" ... I'm not sure that it's something to get depressed about, she didn't say obese or morbidly obese so you are in the category that fits probably the majority of people in the UK today.
Eat sensibly, avoiding the obvious problem foods like hard cheese, crisps, chocolate, cakes and biscuits, alcohol and fats ... use 'lite' versions of spreads and sauces if you have to eat them - herbs and spices can do away with the need for sauces.
The occasional exception to the above is okay but don't let 'occasional' become regular ... it easily can.
If you are not an older person that alone should help your weight, even more so if you take sensible exercise as well (walking is sensible exercise and doesn't cost anything ... you don't need a gym).

 

[BazEP]

Snip

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so what you're saying is yes, you agree with everything I've said!

 

[petersmart]

so what you're saying is yes, you agree with everything I've said!

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion but the simple answer is no, I don't!

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[Meno]

been on weightwatchers for 3 months, lost 3 stone, piece of cake!

 

[j3w3ll3r]

im really sorry, i haven't read the previous 6 pages, but i fully recommend Slimming world

its dead simple and I have lost 3 stone 4lb in 16 weeks

 

[Splog]

been on weightwatchers for 3 months, lost 3 stone, piece of cake!

You lost a three stone piece of cake? ........ Good job you didn't eat it

 

[BazEP]

I'm not sure how you reach that conclusion but the simple answer is no, I don't!

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That fundamentally calories from different foods have a different insulin response and therefore a differing fat storage impact. It's hard to see from some of your contradictions whether you're agreeing with this or not.

Edit to add - a calorie store x amount if energy is not in question, but how that body uses and stores that energy is, so another response confusing this with the fact that some foods contain less calories than others is not helping.