Slightly disappointed in photography course

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There's only so much time in one day I suppose but I wonder if anyone can help with my questions that went unanswered?

1. When shooting on an overcast but bright day, is there anything special you need to do? I understand that shooting into the sun will cause silhouettes in your foreground but if the whole sky is bright sometimes it is hard to see where the sun is?

2. I'm interested in shooting landscapes with the sunrise or sunset in the background, do I have to take two shots, exposed seperately for sun and land and blend them in pp? Or is there another way? Can you only get a good exposure of the sun when it is low and dim enough? Will it always be over exposed when it is bright?

3. How do you know how long your shutter speed should be (when you have a tripod) for sunrise/sunsets or just capturing excellent colour in lower light situations? Do you just try it out and see? I have been paying attention to the specs of other people's photos and the great pictures with amazing colours seem to take from 4 - 30s, why is that? Well, I understand why but how do you know how long your shutter speed should be?

I think where I'm unsure is mostly about light and how to work with it.

Any help much appreciated!
 
Filters to help with exposing the sky and foreground and use a custome white balance that will emphasise the reds and oranges in the sky or you can do this in post
 
You can buy graduated filters which may help with problem. They as the name suggests are darker on one side of the circle and gradually work across to clear on the other. They are available in different strengths. As for exposure times I think it is very much hit and miss. You could also try different metering modes and see what happens? Although dont point your camera directly at the sun it will damage your sensor. I hope this helps you a bit and no doubt someone else will give you some more advice.
 
In PP there is a filter option, would that work as well or not?
 
1. At noon (GMT), the sun will be very close to due South from you so it's not too hard to make a good guess as to where it is at other times (carry a compass!). Ose your camera's spot metering facility to expose for the subject rather tha letting it confuse itself with loads of extra light from the bright sky. If you have a smart phone, there's a useful app called the Photographer's Ephemeris which will show you where the sun is.

2. Either HDR (2 (or more) blended exposures) or graduated filters will help balance the exposure between the sky and the foreground. Overcooked HDR isn't to some people's tastes though and neutral density (ND) grads can be tricky to line up to look natural on hilly horizons.

3. Again, spot meter to one side of the sun. Then check to see the result on the review screen and reshoot if necessary. Or, set the camera up to auto bracket and have a few shots to choose from. Shooting in raw will allow more latitude to rescue poor exposures in PP.
 
Nod said:
1. At noon (GMT), the sun will be very close to due South from you so it's not too hard to make a good guess as to where it is at other times (carry a compass!). Ose your camera's spot metering facility to expose for the subject rather tha letting it confuse itself with loads of extra light from the bright sky. If you have a smart phone, there's a useful app called the Photographer's Ephemeris which will show you where the sun is.

2. Either HDR (2 (or more) blended exposures) or graduated filters will help balance the exposure between the sky and the foreground. Overcooked HDR isn't to some people's tastes though and neutral density (ND) grads can be tricky to line up to look natural on hilly horizons.

3. Again, spot meter to one side of the sun. Then check to see the result on the review screen and reshoot if necessary. Or, set the camera up to auto bracket and have a few shots to choose from. Shooting in raw will allow more latitude to rescue poor exposures in PP.
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You can blend multiple exposures without resorting to hdr software! It is probably the easiest way of simulating a grad filter without owning one!

To the op when metering for a sunrise or sunset I frame a shot so the sun is just out of frame below the camera and lock the exposure (or set manually) then recompose the desired shot. This normally gives a decent baseline which you can then tweak after a couple of shots.
 
Thank you for your advice.

I think it will be clearer to me after i've had a go to be honest.
 
Doodlydoo said:
There's only so much time in one day I suppose but I wonder if anyone can help with my questions that went unanswered?

1. When shooting on an overcast but bright day, is there anything special you need to do? I understand that shooting into the sun will cause silhouettes in your foreground but if the whole sky is bright sometimes it is hard to see where the sun is?
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Remember the shape of the light source is what creates the type of shadow, a subject lit by full sun will create crisp shadows, the same subject on an overcast day will be virtually shadowless.

So whilst you can 'work out where the sun is', the reality is that if you can't distinguish the sun it's not important.

Doodlydoo said:
. I'm interested in shooting landscapes with the sunrise or sunset in the background, do I have to take two shots, exposed seperately for sun and land and blend them in pp? Or is there another way? Can you only get a good exposure of the sun when it is low and dim enough? Will it always be over exposed when it is bright?
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As others have said, it's either multiple exposures or filters, the disadvantage of filters is that they have a straight line, and life doesn't always conform. There's working room from a single exposure but separate exposures will make it much easier.

What woul you call a proper exposure on a ball of light? To me it should look like a ball of light, photographing activity on the Suns surface isn't related to the landscape.

Doodlydoo said:
. How do you know how long your shutter speed should be (when you have a tripod) for sunrise/sunsets or just capturing excellent colour in lower light situations? Do you just try it out and see? I have been paying attention to the specs of other people's photos and the great pictures with amazing colours seem to take from 4 - 30s, why is that? Well, I understand why but how do you know how long your shutter speed should be?

I think where I'm unsure is mostly about light and how to work with it.

Any help much appreciated!
Click to expand...
The only way to know the correct exposure is to meter for it. To do that you only need to understand what your meters telling you, in simple terms the meter sees everything as 18% grey. If you point it at a black wall, it'll assume it's grey, same for a white wall.
So you need to learn to either, aim the meter at a midtone in the same light as your subject, or learn how much brighter or darker than a midtone your subject is, and adjust your exposure to suit.

In practical terms this is often easy, for your sunset, meter from the sky. For your people outdoors in open shade, meter from grass, or tarmac.

Don't fall into the trap of 'you have to shoot manual' but don't use the modes where your camera sets everything either, you need to be in control, but you can do that in PASM. Understanding your meter and focussing on your subject are the core skills.
 
I think people may need to know what photography "course" you went on, so others can avoid it. If they couldn't answer such basic questions, I think you have a duty to name and shame them.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I think people may need to know what photography "course" you went on, so others can avoid it. If they couldn't answer such basic questions, I think you have a duty to name and shame them.
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Maybe the questions weren't asked? There's a limit to how much a group of people can be taught in one day, and with different agendas and previous knowledge, I think it's impossible to satisfy everyone's expectations.

I have slagged off courses in the past but I'd need more info than this to make a judgement.
 
Speaking as someone who runs courses, I think it is dangerous to slag off a particular course without knowing all the facts. Maybe the tutor wasn't great, but then how much did the course cost? You can't expect to get much out of a £50 photo walk type course compared to a £150 dedicated landscape one.

Personally I like both approaches to courses, but you can't expect to get the same level of instruction on all types of courses. Perhaps we should start a thread just on courses where people can leave their experiences of different courses they have been on.
 
Doodlydoo said:
In PP there is a filter option, would that work as well or not?
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Most likely not, your cameras ability to capture strong contrast is limated(normally called dynamic range and listed in F-stops) and if pushed too far will damage the detail, clouds will become pure patches of white, landscapes will become dark mush etc. Using filters or merging exposures allows you to reduce the level of contrast your trying to capture.

The choice between filters and merging is really give and take I'd say, merging allows you to control contrast even with no regular areas of light and dark, EG. the sun though trees or a mountain on the horizon. The disadvanatge is that you don't get the same instant feedback filters provide, you need to work from a tripod(less of an issue with subrise/sunset where you'r more likely to need one anyway due to low shutter speeds) and that by merging you may catch movement in the subject, e.g. grass or trees being blown by the wind.

As Phil says though some over exposure of the sun or bright areas in the sky isnt always a bad thing and can provide a more realistic look than the ability to pickout sunspots.
 
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Phil V said:
Maybe the questions weren't asked?
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I'm assuming they were, as the OP opened with "I wonder if anyone can help with my questions that went unanswered?" I'll let the OP answer as to whether he actually did ask the questions or not, but if he did, £50, £150, or £500... if they can't give answers to such basic questions they have no busniess taking money off people for photographic education, at any level.
 
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or you could go on a tp meet and ask lots of questions ,( theres one in London next Saturday :thumbs: )
 
I'd love to go on the tp meet but I really can't next weekend :(

I won't name the course, I think it was just a compromise that didn't work out for me, they spent more time on DoF and the exposure triangle which I knew about already. They spent a short amount of time on metering but scooted through it fairly quickly and maybe I was a bit dense so didn't catch on as quickly as the others, maybe I should have been more persistent in asking questions but it did seem like we were rushing through it a bit so I didn't push when I didn't understand.

It was a present by the way so I'm not sure of the cost but think it was around £100
 
Sunsets. There is no 'correct' exposure. This is how I've done it.

I use the auto exposure on my Nikon and (using a tripod) adjust the exposure compensation -1, -2 and +1 and +2 and take a shot on each. Use blend layers function in photoshop. You get pretty good results.

Take the photos in as short a time as possible as the clouds will move and cause problems in the blending process.

In the film days it was so different. You bracketed them but there was no way to combine the exposures without complicated printing masks and darkroom trickery - with colour negs no easy feat for the faint hearted or budget conscious.

I've bought some ND grads but not tried them yet. And they're a pain in the ass when your filter ring rotates when focusing. Use manual.
 
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philslizzy said:
Sunsets. There is no 'correct' exposure. This is how I've done it.

I use the auto exposure on my Nikon and (using a tripod) adjust the exposure compensation -1, -2 and +1 and +2 and take a shot on each. Use blend layers function in photoshop. You get pretty good results.

Take the photos in as short a time as possible as the clouds will move and cause problems in the blending process.

In the film days it was so different. You bracketed them but there was no way to combine the exposures without complicated printing masks and darkroom trickery - with colour negs no easy feat for the faint hearted or budget conscious.

I've bought some ND grads but not tried them yet. And they're a pain in the ass when your filter ring rotates when focusing. Use manual.
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Really helpful, thank you.

I think I do get a bit caught up with what might be 'right' textbook style.
 
I have taken a course at Southend College, it is an evening and weekend course and costs £65 for 3/4 sessions. There are 3 different sections to it and Saturday I will have my final session. The tutor is very helpful and always willing to chat through stuff even outside of course time. I was still taking to him 40 minutes after the course finished once.

Photography 1 The basics, I did this over 4 evenings 7-9.30, the first evening was really basic stuff and I was concerned it was literally this is how you change batteries and cards etc. But from then it went on and gave me an excellent grounding in all the basics of everything.
Photography 2 This I did over 3 Saturdays 9-12:30, This was an extension of photography 1 the first session was pretty much a recap of photography 1, from then went on to explain about flash and different methods of using it about composition and perspective also went through custom functions with everyone.

Photography 3 Also doing this over 3 Saturdays, Practical experience out and about in Southend/Leigh etc. getting advice on the fly, and the tutor showing different ways of taking photos, and how to get the shot you want.
 
Don't forget by carefully choosing where you take the photo from you can often 'block' or hide the sun yet still capture your sunset or contre jour shot.
 
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