Slide & Negative Scanner

frank

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Looking to buy a scanner that will scan slides, 35mm neg's and maybe some 110 neg's. I've been handed a load of old slides from a relative who has passed away and I'd like to get them onto computer.
I've been looking at one on Ebay but not really sure which would be better, tbh I don't want to spend any more than 50 quid if I can help it as this is not a commercial venture. I don't want to get a flatbed scanner as I don't have the room for one, something i can pack away easily when not in use.

Anyone recommend one that gives decent results for £50 or less. Once the job is finished it will go on ebay, gumtree or here to sell.

Thanks.
 
35mm scanning will be easy enough to sort as the negative holders are pretty much standard, however, the 110 negatives may prove more difficult.

I've scanned 110 before by sandwiching them between two small sheets of glass.....The negative has to, ideally, be raised up from the glass bed of the scanner so to ensure the focus is correct.

Which scanner and best places to obtain, I can't help with as i live outside of the UK however I've no doubt the friendly lot of fusty and crusty ( f&c) :D members will be along soon to offer advice;)
 
If I wanted ease of packing away and didn't want a flatbed with a budget of £50, I'd personally go for a slide copier and use a DSLR.
 
Anyone recommend one that gives decent results for £50 or less. Once the job is finished it will go on ebay, gumtree or here to sell.

Thanks.

I don't think there is anything in that price range that isn't a flatbed, and the flatbed would still need to be a lucky break from the bootie
Unless you can quantify "decent", or forget decent and go with "results"

yep, for half decent, its a light box and digital camera and a pile of faff.
 
I know you say a flatbed scanner is not what you want, but you could probably get a second hand Epson V500 for around £100. If you can slide it under a bed or put on top of a cupboard to keep it out of the way when storing it, it will produce good results, should have holders for 35mm and slides (not sure about 110 - you may need a custom holder or some homemade solution for those), and when you've finished you should be able to sell it for pretty much what you bought it for.

There are smaller, cheaper scanners available - including some that let you use your phone as the scanner, but I've not seen any of them get particularly glowing reviews.
 
Earlier this year I found time to do a quick, amateur (unscientific), comparison test using the same two 35mm negatives. The first image below is a high-definition scan done by a photo lab using a Noritsu pro-quality film scanner. The second image was scanned using my Epson Perfection V600 Photo flatbed (desktop) scanner. The third image was scanned using a budget priced USB 5mp film scanner with built in mini LCD screen that I bought around 3 years ago for about £60 (as far as I can remember!). I think this sort of USB film scanner (although not the same model) can still be bought from places such as Maplin (if you are interested then it might be worth watching to see if they have a post-Xmas sale)?

The original photos were taken with a Canon A1 35mm SLR camera fitted with a Canon FD 35-70mm f4 zoom lens, using a 200 ISO ‘AGFA Vista Plus’ 24 exposure 35mm film (bought from Poundland for £1 a roll).

The first image below is as I got it back from the photo lab (on a CD). The second and third full-size photo scans below are both as they left my scanners, with no Photoshop enhancement or colour correction. However, the two 'computer screen grab' comparisons were sharpened very slightly.


Noritsu high definition scan:




Epson Perfection V600 Photo at 6400 dpi:




Budget 5mp USB scanner:




Screen grab of 'zoomed in' comparison samples (as near as I could get size-wise when viewed in Windows Photo Viewer), from left to right: Noritsu; Epson V600; Budget USB scanner:




Screen grab of 'zoomed in' comparison samples (once again, as near as I could get size-wise), from left to right: Noritsu; Epson V600; Budget USB scanner:




Well, as you might expect, it appears that you get what you pay for when it comes to scanning 35mm film. However, if I darken the Epson scan of the flowers in Photoshop there is some more detail there in that image, so a bit of post-scan processing can soon sort that. The budget 5mb USB scanner is small and portable, it powers itself from a computer USB port and saves the images to a SD memory card. So you can take it along with a laptop computer and scan negatives at a relative/friend’s house fairly quickly and without much bother. Just learn how to use it, press a button and get the results displayed on its own mini LCD screen and saved to the SD card.

The Epson V600 is a fair sized flatbed scanner and takes up a bit of space on my desk. I think it does a lovely job of scanning 120 roll film negatives, and a perfectly acceptable job of 35mm negatives and transparencies. I can also use it as a normal A4 scanner to scan documents, photo prints, etc. It came with a free copy of Photoshop Elements 11 when I bought it, which made it an even better deal for me, as I wanted to upgrade from the Elements 5 was using at the time! However, it will take a bit of time to learn how the get the best out of it and the software it comes with. I’ve done the typical thing of learning the basics and then gave up exploring it as I’d got acceptable results! One of these days I’ll look on the internet (and search this forum) for tips on how to use it to its best, and then try to remember what the tips said when I come to use the scanner again!

I hope this is of use to you, best of luck finding a scanner to fit your needs and budget, and all the best for Christmas and the New Year.
 
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Thanks Mr Badger

Yes these images were very helpful indeed in helping me decide, I might just bite the bullet and go for the epson V600 or similar. Wife and I just been through over 1000 photos, mostly prints from 1972 when our first kids appeared on the scene deciding what to keep and what to dump. What prints and neg's we did keep I think I should make the effort and get them in digital format, a job for 2017.
I have photoshop 6 which I know my way about but not used in a while. looking at your's a wee bit pp should bring colours back. I'll hang on till the sales in case they come down a few quid.
 
Thanks Mr Badger

Yes these images were very helpful indeed in helping me decide, I might just bite the bullet and go for the epson V600 or similar. Wife and I just been through over 1000 photos, mostly prints from 1972 when our first kids appeared on the scene deciding what to keep and what to dump. What prints and neg's we did keep I think I should make the effort and get them in digital format, a job for 2017.
I have photoshop 6 which I know my way about but not used in a while. looking at your's a wee bit pp should bring colours back. I'll hang on till the sales in case they come down a few quid.

Just a word of warning that scanning is an art form in itself and that it can be a very difficult and time consuming process. If you are looking for high quality results, you might need to be prepared to invest considerable time and effort, as the biggest factor in quality scans will be the scanner operator, not the equipment.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.
 
As I type, I am scanning. Well, the 'pooter's scanning. Four frames, one strip of 35mm, and whilst it's doing that, I'm finding something else to do.
Yesterday, ALL DAY, I managed 50 frames. Today... ALL DAY I have managed to do an extra page from the binder... haven't counted them yet, 'cos I am still waiting for the machine, but I'll be lucky to have got 70 frames done. I will admit, I am scanning them at a pretty high quality level; 2700 DPi and 64 bit colour depth. with 12 times over-scan & multi exposure to get the 'best' I can from the job. AND... this is the good bit for you, this high end scanner only cost me £30 off e-bay..... well, actually it originally cost my just shy of £500, back in Y2K... but I was having trouble getting new computer to recognise it & spotted same model 2nd hand, which came with an SCSI card I wanted top 'de-bug' and a bunch of spare strip carrier's that are handy.... So 'cheap' doesn't have to be 'nasty'..... BUT, good scans DO take time... lots and lots of time, and not all of it's in the machine being none to fast, but in the 'handling'. Organising the negs, so you dont do the same one five times; dusting them off before scanning, putting away. Then saving you scan and any post-process clean and tidy work you may want to do, which can make the scanning seem rather quick!

Whether its all worth it, only you can say; BUT, if you have more than a hand full of old images to do, it is likely to be a mamoth task, and you MAY want to consider professional scanning services, or it could be many many years before you have them all up on screen to look at.

If you are prepared to sacrifice quality for cost/convenience, then the web-cam type USB scanners, that are usually under £50 new, can actually be half reasonable..... 'scuse me a strip just finished and needed changing!.... where was I? Oh yeah. The slide viewer box USB type scanners; work much like those old battery operated slide viewers; LED light in the bottom, shines through slide or negative, and a web-cam above takes a picture of it when you press the button. Suggested resolution they offer is actually nowhere near; they usually quote the web-cams pixel out-put, and say things like its a 14Mega-pix scanner, rather than quote the DPi resolution it offers.... and the out-put is often an 'interpolated' one; the camera only actually scans at maybe 1Mpix and inflates that 10x sub dividing the grid and making a best guess at what should be in it! But, for all that, sized back down to around 1Mpix for web display or screen view, they aren't too bad; and they are cheap, they are fairly compact, and the work flow can be reasonably 'quick'.

I bought one, with the idea that I could get through my back archive reasonably fast.. and treat the scans as a sort of digital contact sheet to cherry pic frames to make high quality scans from.... I will say, the project did get frames to file fairly fast..... I could do maybe two films 50-60 frames or so in an evening.... but the plan went to pot in keeping track of them to go back and find the negs to make HQ scans of, and as you still have to load the entire strip...you can get to a point where its just 'easier' to bite the bullet and do the lot!

Dedicated film scanner though, doesn't have a huge foot-print; its as wide and about 1/3 as tall as my PC tower case and happily sits on top of it... binders full of negatives, on the other hand, rocket blower, space to load the carriers... its a little more than you can do on your lap! Add shoe-boxes of loose negs or the single sleeve that came in the pack of prints, and a few of the individual cellophane strip sleeves, dumped on me by relatives, "OH, I think there's some of Auntie Dot in here; we found them when we cleared out Floss's when she went in 'the home'... I'll leave them with you... you can e-mail them to me"...... Take heed... the few you have now are likely ONLY the START! And of course they always think that you'll be able to 'knock'em off in an evening.. 'Wont you?' My own 'archive' has mushroomed, with negs dumped on me in this way from two sets of grand-parents, a number of aunties, and a few of thier freinds who's just like to have a look, so I told them you'd love to do them... you will.... wont you!

And, it's not just the scanning; you have to have somewhere to put the scan-files. Compressed jpg files might only take up 1Mb a frame. But the scan file, in better quality, uncompressed TIF format is likely to be 10Mb... it doesn't sound much, but when you have a lot of them, soon mounts up, and you wont be burning them all onto one DVD.... scanning direct to Photo-Shop, scans Idoing at the moment, at 2700Dpi, and 64bit colour, come out just shy of 10Mpix and weigh in at about 55Mb a frame.. and start dressing those up in PS, the modification layers can see that 'inflate' drastically. By the time I have done a quick touch up to restore any scratches or marks; adjusted colour balance, and contrast, they are usually around the 80Mb mark.... skoozie... strip just stopped... where was I.... Oh yeah.... Hard drive space.... they can take a lot; especially sat in the 'work in Progress' folder, before you make an archive version, which might not be a lot smaller, depending on format and compression you save in.

So you need to think a bit beyond the scanner; will you need a hard drive to store them on? Will you need CD/DVD to send out 'copies' to all the interested parties? What about the negs themselves? Will you be preserving them after scanning? (It is wise; you'll often find 'duff' scans in the batch) What about strip sleeves and binders, will you need to buy them to keep them organised during operations?

SKN1702.psd!!!!! Just finished a page from the binder, and that's the last frame from the file. One thousand, seven hundred and two!!! Since this time last year!!!! It's no small job! And I still have to dab and stab'em all! Arhgggggggg!!!!!!!!! But I detract....

35mm, is as said, 'easy'. Most dedicated film scanners only take 'up to' 35mm, they dont take 120 roll film. And that 'up to'. If they have a holder that will take a 110 cartridge neg... they are still restricted by the scanner resolution; so like taking a 'crop-section' from a 35mm neg, you will only get something with about 1/4 the pixel count, which, especially from a high interpolation scanner like the light-box web-cam type, can make them pretty dire.

I have done a chunk of old 110 cartridge, and even a roll of minox sub mini spy camera negs using a slide duplicator lens on the electric picture maker. I have a crop sensor DSLR, so it gives a 1.5x magnification before you start, so I cant get a 35mm neg 'full frame' 1:1, I can only take a sectional enlargement; but does work well for the little 110's, which I can get to fit the frame nicely..... BUT boy is it a ballache!

Using LCD monitor as back-light illumination; takes a bit of chimping to get decent exposure settings; then working in negative, you have to do a lot of the processing manually in post-process; inverting to poss, and sorting out the colour balence and removing the orange neg cast. ANd once you have it looking a bit like; you may have to go back to the neg and try alternative settings to get the dynamic range better centred and sort out your contrasts etc. Once you have got it 'ball-park' you can run off a whole film or five, which don't vary by much and keep applying the same adjustment layers; so you can get through them fairly... Ah! until you hit the googlie, 'cos a lot of 110 cameras were cheap key-ring things, with fixed shutter and aperture, and relied on film lattitude and process correction for the print... and this one needs a BIT more work..... and you then discover its not grossely under exposed.... some-one had thier thumb half over the lens!

Slide Duplicator lenses again, come up reasonably cheap on e-bay; and if you want to make crop section enlargements, or mess around stitching crop sections for huge mega pixel count images, can be 'fun'. But, it is one of the few ecconomical ways to get 'good' scans from small negs... but it is a chore.

My advice from the go get, is to think long and hard how much the jobs worth; more how much your time is worth. 1702 pictures 'done' in a year, working in and around, but pretty deturmined to get it done. If I had to go to work, and I was using my weekends and holiday time doing this.... I'd pay some-one else to do it! I wouldn't be going to work every day to pay the bills. So I could come home and spend all my life 'scanning'!!! No matter HOW much 'Cheaper' it is DIY or how much 'better' I might do it DIY!

So have a good hard appraisal; how much are these pics worth? and how much can you afford to get them digitised? How much is your time worth? How much time do you HAVE, you can devote to this? And forget the cost of the kit; how 'good' do you want the results to be? Because as soon as you go beyond that aprox 1.3Mpix web resolution, you'd comfortably get from a web-scanner, or from a commercial lab at 'low quality', the cost and time will ramp drastically, and the improvement may not actually be all that beneficial, IF most of them are only ever going to be looked at like a pack of prints, to see what's there; and pick only one or two from a roll of 36 'for the album'.

Then.. cost the whole job... not just the scanner, but file space for scans, any archive materials for dealing with the negs; and possibly things like a rocket blower or concervators gloves etc etc, depending how diligent you are going to get.

Oh Kay... Scan 1703.... time to turn the page and load up the carriers for another go..... oh what 'fun' this is...... ;-) Masochists only, need apply!
 
Long ago after I had to let my darkroom go i started scanning film and printing digitally. I went through a series of SCSI and Polaroid USB scanners before settling on an Epson 4990 for medium and large format scans, and a Minolta Dimage 5400 film scanner for 35mm. I now shoot digital, but like the OP, have my fathers collection of negs, slides, prints (many 2 1/4" B&W contact prints), letters and documents to eventually scan and distribute between family members. The cost involved is a huge amount of spare time I don't currently have, so be warned.

Dedicated film scanners such as my Minolta Dimage, or a similar Nikon LS-4000 are quite fast as scanners go, but even old scanners such as these may be outside your budget. Your best bet may be a used Epson 4990 flatbed, as long as the film holders are present with it. You can then leave the scanner scanning multiple 35mm negs which is time saving. I never used that function as I used to print large for competitions and display, the quality wasn't good enough, but would likely suit your purpose.

If you have any old Kodachrome slides in cardboard mounts to scan, be warned these will likely need a scanner with a good dmax to scan well.

If your computer has firewire ports, or if a desktop can have a firewire card installed, and your scanner has a firewire port, this will increase your scanning speed. My older MacBook Pro's all have firewire 800. If you buy an older scanner and it's software is missing or is too old for your computers OS, look at Vuescan by Ed Hamrick. It gives a new life to older scanners.

Whatever path you choose, good luck, and don't under estimate the time required.
 
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Well I mentioned this years ago....the girl at Asda said she would scan 3 films onto one CD for £1 but they mustn't be less than two frames long.....mind you all history now unless you can find an Asda still doing film and the prices are still the same.
Well at 9:30 today I'll be phoning my Asda to see if they still do film as I have one to be done, and if anyone is interested in the Slough branch, will ask if the scanning offer is still going (been taken over by Photo-me).
 
Just worth pointing out that if this is a 'one off'' exercise and you don't intend to shoot any more film, if you buy a cheap usb scanner, one of those Maplin type webcam in a box type you'll pay £50-60 for it will be worth very little on the secondhand market and the scans won't be great.

Alternatively if you can afford it an Epson or even better a Nikon Coolscan or Minolta Dimage as mentioned by Steve above will give you much better results and if you buy at a good price you will lose nothing when you come to resell it once you've finished your scanning.

From a quick search on the well known auction site it looks like you can pick up a fourth generation Nikon IV or maybe 4000 for £350ish, so if you can spare the cash for the short time while youre scanning you'll likely get most of it back when you come to sell, you may even make a little profit.
 
Just a word of warning that scanning is an art form in itself and that it can be a very difficult and time consuming process. If you are looking for high quality results, you might need to be prepared to invest considerable time and effort, as the biggest factor in quality scans will be the scanner operator, not the equipment.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

...and for a scanned image it's very difficult to make a silk neg at of a sow's neg. So if you have a stack of negs from a very old cheap Micky mouse 35mm (or whatever) camera, then maybe the cheapest type of scanner would be ok.
 
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...and for a scanned image it's very difficult to make a silk neg at of a sow's neg.
Curious tangent there.....
Camera-Scanning the 110's, was a revealing exersize. And they probably got a disproportional amount of time spent on them for the 'quality'. Odds are against you from the off; 110 frame size is tiny, which is unhelpful, to both quality and ease of handling; then few 110 cameras were particularly wonderful, and as mentioned, a lot of 110 pics probably came from 'key-ring' cameras, but the main gripe against 110 was that the cassette denied a sprung backing plate to keep the film flat in the trap, whatever it was. Bain of the format, though was 'cheap' Truprint film, given away 'free' when they sent the prints back, but even shop bought 110 wasn't often great; they didn't often offer the favored emulsions in the format, and popularity of the format was in the 70's, when 'colour-print' emulsions were still a bit of a novelty anyway. BUT!

For all the odds against.... what I have managed to lift from 110 hasn't been 'so' bad, and often offered a fair few pleasant surprises; scanning has managed to 'lift' them from the fuzzy faded prints in the album; the diligence to individually scanning, often getting better 'correction' in digital reproduction, than they did in commercial chemical printing, and they have stood enlargement to 17" screen size, way beyond the 3x4.5" economy sized prints that were ever made from them originally.

Whilst, so many 'family' snap-shots; an awful lot may be forgiven faded colours or lack of sharpness, because "That's Uncle Ted's Arnstrong!" the 'posh' car he cherished for so many years no one thinks a photo survived of..... or similar. Like cousin Julie, the rampant feminist, wearing a DRESS?!?

Which is warning; WE as photographers can very easily forget what is an 'acceptable' quality, chasing 'image' quality, and loose sight of the wood for the trees, and that it's the SUBJECT that really matters most.

In that, a certain amount of turd polishing, is justified. You wont make a silk purse out of a sows ear, but the battered moth eaten 'rag' you think you have, MIGHT just be a rare and worthy bit of history, like a medieval wedding dress deservant of it's place in the museum, even though it's not really something you might wear to dinner!

In counterpoint, then lifting images from 35mm, which I know were taken by 'good' photographers, with 'good' cameras, where you'd expect the odds to be with you, I've often been disappointing... most often with my own 'archive'!!! "WHY ON EARTH! Did I take THAT?!?.. WHAT on earth was I thinking of? What the heck was I trying to do THERE?!.... As I work through a roll from my early enthusiasm with an SLR, and find 'interesting' and often unsettling 'alternative angles' found for things like the sea crashing up a rocky crag, with a 45degree horizon and 45 degree angle of inclination; and ten 'variations' with different shutter speeds, exposures or AHRGhhhhhhhhhhhhh 'effects filters'!!!!!!!! Making me actually sea sick, looking at them! {Yeah.... who's blushing? Like Dr's we tend to bury our mistakes, don't we Lol}

Even if it's not too disgusting, follow on questions often leave you perplexed; "Where was that? WHEN was that?" before shuffling on to ponder why a photo you recognize from the album, and recall was "Quite good".. actually 'isn't. because scanning displays the full frame where the old prints were often cropped to fit standard paper sizes in prints, and screen display, even without 'zoom', is displaying them larger than they were ever likely seen on paper.

True, you cant make a nice sharp scan from a neg that was out of focus to start with, or 'recover' one grossly under or over exposed; But, you can, get a lot out of less 'ideal' negs, and if you work to a 800x1000px 'web-display' high compression jpg, as the 'acceptable' standard, and apply a little tolerance for more interesting 'subjects'.... well, you wont get silk purses from complete sows ears, but can still make a fair few perfectly serviceable leather wallets from a donkey's hind leg! Whilst a lot of raw silk can likely still end up on the cutting room floor! ;-)
 
Another thought is:- if you have a print plus the neg it could be better to scan the print as unless the neg is stored properly it could be covered in scratches and grime etc......I've been happy with my scans of very old small prints and up to A4 they look reasonable.
 
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When I started scanning my back archive of negatives and slides, I ended up doing 150 or so rolls. It did take months, but I just let the computer get on with it, and pop by every now and then to move on to the next frame. That way it wasn't too much of a chore. All the frames from those rolls went through the scanner and were previewed, but I didn't bother scanning them all; unrecoverably wrong exposure or oof frames just got passed over and on to the next. There's probably another hundred rolls but I've lost interest in them since getting back to taking more film. But, it's definitely doable. And I found out things about my past I had completely forgotten, that are now back, part of my memory again, and that's priceless. Go for it!
 
True, you cant ..... 'recover' one grossly under or over exposed

It's off topic to go into this, but I disagree. You can make a better print from a scan digitally than you can from the negative in a darkroom when the exposure if way off. I have a negative that looks to all the world unexposed, but I found that when scanned the image was recognisable. A very poor image, but the alternative (from a darkroom) would have been no image at all. Less serious underexposure could be easily recovered. This is black and white of course. I have no experience with badly exposed colour. Over exposure in black and white was usually retrievable by using a reducer (and small amounts of underexposure by using an intensifier, possibly with selenium toning added).
 
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