Sky Problem

[myotis]

I will do that Graham.

one at indicated reading, one at one over and one at two over.

15 shots on the roll should get me five scenes there.

I will try to get five scenes of different compositions to see if there are any differences relating to the subject matter

Also pay attention to what is happening to the parts of the scene you "aren't" targeting with the red filter. It's easy to lose shadow detail and darken areas you don't want darkened

Ah, I see @StephenM has already pointed out some of the issues

 

[Barney]

Also pay attention to what is happening to the parts of the scene you "aren't" targeting with the red filter. It's easy to lose shadow detail and darken areas you don't want darkened

Ah, I see @StephenM has already pointed out some of the issues

I dont have a red filter, only orange.

I have so much to learn about the light, colour composition and wavelength reflectance, absorption and diffusion.

 

[excalibur2]

As part of the learning process, bracket your exposures until you get a feel for how the red filter will affect exposure. It will save you a tremendous amount of wasted film in the long run.

Also bear in mind that using an incident meter reading is the same as taking a reflected reading from a grey card, so you shouldn't normally need to make any exposure compensation for light or dark subjects, just for the filter.

So as a film exposure meter can't read colour an exposure reading of a grey card is near enough to green grass, shrubs, decent blue sky, and of course grey buildings and paving. So can't make my mind up that if you pointed a camera with a red filter at decent blue sky would that give you the correct meter reading for the subject in the same light?????

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Because real world objects reflect a range of wavelengths, filters can have other side effects.

To carry this on: the most important thing to realise is that no photograph is an entirely accurate representation of what the photographer witnessed.

By manipulation, an image can be taken closer to what the photographer thought he witnessed but it will always be just one of many possible variations on a theme. This is why there was nothing wrong with what the man with the two Hasselblads was doing: getting closer to what he thought he was seeing so that the publishers of the guide books could provide the least bad information to their customers.

 

[myotis]

I dont have a red filter, only orange.

I have so much to learn about the light, colour composition and wavelength reflectance, absorption and diffusion.

Sorry, not paying enough attention, same thing applies, just that the effect is reduced.

 

[StephenM]

So as a film exposure meter can't read colour an exposure reading of a grey card is near enough to green grass, shrubs, decent blue sky, and of course grey buildings and paving. So can't make my mind up that if you pointed a camera with a red filter at decent blue sky would that give you the correct meter reading for the subject in the same light?????

CdS meters are overly sensitive to red light (never mentioned as far as I can recall until silicon blue cells came out...) so meters can read colour. Look up colour temperature meters sometime, and how you can simulate them...

But as far as the blue sky/red filter question goes, just try it. You don't have to make an exposure, just check the settings. Use a blue card if you don't have a blue sky in your camera bag.

 

[StephenM]

Claus/Meusel
Internet archive
Job done

 

[myotis]

So as a film exposure meter can't read colour an exposure reading of a grey card is near enough to green grass, shrubs, decent blue sky, and of course grey buildings and paving. So can't make my mind up that if you pointed a camera with a red filter at decent blue sky would that give you the correct meter reading for the subject in the same light?????

The underlying assumption of a meter reading from a clear north sky giving the same exposure as a reading from a grey card, is that you want a clear north sky in your final print to be the same tone as an 18% grey card.

Whether the exposure for the sky, will be the same as the exposure for a grey card illuminated by that sky, is something I can't get my head around at the moment. I suspect it wouldn't be the same.

 

[StephenM]

To my mind the red filter would darken the sky more than anything else in the photograph. In the limit, to black. So the exposure correction would turn it back to grey, and in so doing it would overexpose everything else.

In simple terms, if you placed a blue card and a grey card next to each other and they both appeared about the same brightnes, do you think that would still be true looking through a red filter? The human eye's sensitivity variation to colour is astounding - we are almost blind, relatively speaking, to blue.

 

[excalibur2]

CdS meters are overly sensitive to red light (never mentioned as far as I can recall until silicon blue cells came out...) so meters can read colour. Look up colour temperature meters sometime, and how you can simulate them...

But as far as the blue sky/red filter question goes, just try it. You don't have to make an exposure, just check the settings. Use a blue card if you don't have a blue sky in your camera bag.

Just a quick test:-
Meter reading with T90 set to spot:-
Just grey card 1/4 sec f11
Just blue object (lighter blue) 1/4 sec f13
just grey card with red filter over lens 1/4 sec f5.6
just lighter blue object with red filter over lens 1/4 sec f6.7

 

[David_Mug]

Tried some advice - I give up!

 

[Barney]

Well I had a good mess about yesterday, Tried looking through the orange filter at a wispy, hazy, blue sky and there certainly was a bit more contrast and definition to the subtle cloud formations. I only managed four scenes not the five as intended, you would not think it possible to mess up the same scene with three different F stops but I managed it, TWICE!

Scenes selected for variance

Waterfall in woodland shade - Mainly white foamy water and wet black stone
Landscape - hazy view over distant valley across green fields with huge bright skies
Sailing club - Water expanse, trees and skies
Churchyard - as light was going in total shade.

I will process the film later when everyone gets up and have a look at the different scenes, I have a feeling, as previously mentioned, the the unwanted effects of the filter will be as important as the desired effects.

 

[excalibur2]

Well I had a good mess about yesterday, Tried looking through the orange filter at a wispy, hazy, blue sky and there certainly was a bit more contrast and definition to the subtle cloud formations. I only managed four scenes not the five as intended, you would not think it possible to mess up the same scene with three different F stops but I managed it, TWICE!

Scenes selected for variance

Waterfall in woodland shade - Mainly white foamy water and wet black stone
Landscape - hazy view over distant valley across green fields with huge bright skies
Sailing club - Water expanse, trees and skies
Churchyard - as light was going in total shade.

I will process the film later when everyone gets up and have a look at the different scenes, I have a feeling, as previously mentioned, the the unwanted effects of the filter will be as important as the desired effects.

How would you like to get the exposure right on this shot, using a manual Konica TC with the 1.3v battery changed to 1.5v? All I did was point the camera at the blue sky and set the camera for the shot, the latitude of neg film compensates for a not "spot on exposure".

 

[Barney]

How would you like to get the exposure right on this shot, using a manual Konica TC with the 1.3v battery changed to 1.5v? All I did was point the camera at the blue sky and set the camera for the shot, the latitude of neg film compensates for a not "spot on exposure".

That's a great shot Brian, I would probably be using Sunny Sixteen or the incident meter there,

Just guessing from looking at it, I would be going 1/ 250th @ F8 that for 200ASA film of course.

 

[Barney]

Just run those conditions through my old round exposure calculator and it says 1/500th for f8 or 1/250th at f11, So my guess was a stop over.

 

[excalibur2]

That's a great shot Brian, I would probably be using Sunny Sixteen or the incident meter there,

Just guessing from looking at it, I would be going 1/ 250th @ F8 that for 200ASA film of course.

Thanks Wayne
Can't remember the exposure for the boat but couldn't trust the old manual camera exposure meter reading with all that white about
That's my usual walkabout setting on a sunny day i.e. 1/250 @ f8 from about 11:00 to 15:00

 

[Barney]

Thanks Wayne
Can't remember the exposure for the boat but couldn't trust the old manual camera exposure meter reading with all that white about
That's my usual walkabout setting on a sunny day i.e. 1/250 @ f8 from about 11:00 to 15:00

Did you have a filter on there?

 

[excalibur2]

Did you have a filter on there?

No, but am considering putting all my sky filters back on the lenses for lens protection as........if I'm not likely to have a large print from a 35mm shot, could I see the difference in sharpness etc for shots with or without a sky filter?

 

[StephenM]

You might, depending on circumstances, see a difference in flare though.