Simple studio lighting for groups

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Hi guys, I wonder if I can get some (more) help?

I have a studio for fun and usually shoot single portraits (or couple max). Anyhow, last night I was asked to shoot a milestone anniversary family group of about 12 people. It's not too serious as they are family friends and I am doing it as a favour.

I haven't done anything like that before and am wondering what the simplest and quickest way is to light them. I will also presumably be doing couples as well while they are there.

I will be using my Sony A73 with Sony 85mm and Samyang 35mm lenses.

I have 2 Lencarta Elite Pro2 flashes and available modifiers are a 120cm octabox, a 100x70cm softbox, a 120x30cm stripbox, a Westcott 7ft silver (parabolic type) umbrella and a couple of standard reflective umbrellas.

I have a choice of white, grey or black seamless paper backgrounds.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thanks guys. Barebulb or with a standard reflector on the strobes?
 
Diamonddec said:
Thanks guys. Barebulb or with a standard reflector on the strobes?
Click to expand...
Standard or spill kill reflector at a minimum. If I had enough power to defeat daylight I'd probably use a softbox or shoot through brolly before bouncing. It won't make a lot of difference in most cases but it will calm the shadow edges down a bit if you have to put the strobes close to your bounce surfaces.
 
juggler said:
If I had enough power to defeat daylight I'd probably use a softbox
Click to expand...
I don't really see a softbox option for 12 people... maybe the 7ft if you packed them together and placed it far enough away (defeating the point of the softbox). You could get really creative and light smaller groupings to combine in post, but that's not at all "simple."
juggler said:
or shoot through brolly before bouncing
Click to expand...
A shoot-through allows you to combine both to a certain extent... assuming the space isn't that large you can get a bit of harder directional lighting with backwards spill bounce/fill. I didn't see any shoot-throughs listed... and TBH, IMO it would take a bit of fiddling to refine and would likely be more subtle than useful for this type of shoot. I wouldn't go out and buy them just for this...
 
sk66 said:
I don't really see a softbox option for 12 people... maybe the 7ft if you packed them together and placed it far enough away (defeating the point of the softbox). You could get really creative and light smaller groupings to combine in post, but that's not at all "simple."

A shoot-through allows you to combine both to a certain extent... assuming the space isn't that large you can get a bit of harder directional lighting with backwards spill bounce/fill. I didn't see any shoot-throughs listed... and TBH, IMO it would take a bit of fiddling to refine and would likely be more subtle than useful for this type of shoot. I wouldn't go out and buy them just for this...
Click to expand...

It think you've misread.. I'd use a softbox/brolly AND bounce that off the wall if I had sufficient power, esp if I couldn't get the strobe far from the bounce surface. It does make a small difference.
 
There is a way to light a large group with one large softbox or reflective brolly. It looks like this:-
group.jpg

The principle is that the nearer subjects "see" less of the light surface area, but are closer so receive more light per sqm of brolly or softbox surface. The folks at the far end, receive less light because they are further away, but "see" more of the light source. It does take some finessing of the light position and this one needs more work, but you get the idea. There will also be variations in the quality of the light - the closer subject sees a taller light giving softer shadows in the vertical dimension while the farthest subject sees an almost round but small light source, giving all round harder shadows. You do need a fair amount of room for this, and it would work well outside to give some punch to an overcast/open shade daylit shot.

Using a big window at 90 degrees is a similar idea:-
_OHL6200-Website.jpg

Or if you have the ceiling for it, this is on camera bounce flash - just make sure no light from the flash hits the group directly (I use a "black foamy thing" to flag this off):-

_OHL6186-Edit-Website.jpg


It's not pretty but it works :)
 
Scooter said:
There is a way to light a large group with one large softbox or reflective brolly. It looks like this:-
Click to expand...
Have you ever done this?
I've only tried it once and it didn't really work for me... the result I got was effectively just hard light so no real point to it. I've also tried cross lighting a large group using two umbrellas feathered to the opposite sides. That was a bit better except for the confusing/conflicting shadows. I'm not saying it can't be done well... I just never have.
TBH, maybe I just didn't try hard enough to work it out... photographing people is not really my thing, and when I have done this kind of work it's just never really mattered all that much.

Scooter said:
Using a big window at 90 degrees is a similar idea:-
Click to expand...
But this is quite different...
The source of illumination is not the window; it is whatever is shining light through the window. So the ISL (size/distance) is generally much less significant. The example pic is hard to evaluate in those terms because it is mixed lighting (window/overhead/fill). And the window isn't feathered in the example either.
If the window was covered/diffused, then it would be the light source.

Scooter said:
It's not pretty but it works :)
Click to expand...
Personally, I think it worked quite well... it's the image I would choose/use. :D
 
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sk66 said:
Have you ever done this?
I've only tried it once and it didn't really work for me... the result I got was effectively just hard light so no real point to it. I've also tried cross lighting a large group using two umbrellas feathered to the opposite sides. That was a bit better except for the confusing/conflicting shadows. I'm not saying it can't be done well... I just never have.
TBH, maybe I just didn't try hard enough to work it out... photographing people is not really my thing, and when I have done this kind of work it's just never really mattered all that much.


But this is quite different...
The source of illumination is not the window; it is whatever is shining light through the window. So the ISL (size/distance) is generally much less significant. The example pic is hard to evaluate in those terms because it is mixed lighting (window/overhead/fill). And the window isn't feathered in the example either.
If the window was covered/diffused, then it would be the light source.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but it's not totally dissimilar - the source is basically the clouds in the sky, and some of the ground, walls etc outside - but you are quite right the visible area (through the window as an aperture) from one subject to the other is much less varied.

Here's a side brolly example...(I couldn't add it in the original post as you can only add 3 images...). There's quite a bit of fill here though tbh, and probably some of the ambient - I tend to use the flash (a small speed-light in this case bounced into a large-ish silver brolly) just to add some direction and clean up the light a bit - as we're moving from place to place. The light is quite hard, but I don't mind that too much if there's plenty of fill tbh. I do have a shadow on the right most woman from the guy's chin but hey ho..

_OHL5356-Website-small.jpg


sk66 said:
Personally, I think it worked quite well... it's the image I would choose/use. :D
Click to expand...

Yeah me too, and these days for larger groups, if I can, I just deploy multiple speedlights also firing up into the ceiling, to make an even bigger bounce source.
 
OK guys, the shoot is tonight and I've had a practice and decided that bouncing both studio strobes off the wall behind me gives me the best coverage and even light. Albeit there are hardly any shadows on the model that i used, floor or background. My studio is 25 feet long and 15 feet wide and I am on full power at f11 and at ISO 200 shooting the length of the studio. I will organise the 10 or 11 people in two rows. I am just using white seamless for handiness and have extended the width of my 9ft wide roll by another 3 feet or so to 12 feet wide to get 6 people wide in.

Hopefully it will work out OK, but I'm starting to get anxious now as I've never dealt with more than 2 people at a time in the studio (and that was only once... and were my family!)

I keep telling myself its a favour to my best friends and in her words that "its not the end of the world if the pictures are not 100% as its just to mark the occasion of a big anniversary for her parents", but I want to do the very best that I can, of course. I'm particularly useless at posing even 2 people, let alone 10, but we'll manage!

Thanks for everyone's contributions and advice. Much appreciated.
 
I don't believe it! I went into the studio for a final practice this morning and turned the lights on, took a few snaps and noticed that I had lost about a stop of light from last night and lighting uneven. Nothing had changed with camera or lights. Perplexed, I didn't know what the frigging problem was. I've just put the pictures on the computer and am only detecting one catchlight in the eye! Looks like one of the bulbs has blown! … What the heck? :rolleyes:
 
This thread as been a good read. The info given as been great. I was pleased to see you had come back to give an update.

Hope you managed to get the images you were after.

Gaz
 
Well, my panic from earlier was averted when I discovered that the flash wasn't working because somehow the little receiver thing that plugs into the flash had come loose! :oops: :$ Embarrassed? … I should coco! o_O However, I was mightily relieved when I sussed it out! :wacky:

Despite my stressing about doing the session. it turned out fine (as it always does!... I go through the same doubts and fears every time I have to do a shoot for someone else!)… what if my memory cards get corrupted?... what if? … what if? I'm just not cut out to take pictures for other people! … Fragile disposition. :sleep:

I am happy with the pictures given that I didn't know what I was doing!. I ended up just firing the flashes into a wall behind me and it seemed to give decent enough coverage, albeit flat out at ISO200. My friend was happy with the first few pictures that I sent her too, so all good. My posing was s***e, as I expected though, but heyho! :jawdrop:

I'll post up a couple of pics tomorrow as well as a BTS snap of the set-up in case anyone is remotely interested.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
So, as promised, here are a couple of snaps of the studio set-up after your advice on here ...

STUDIO 1 by CFC Photo, on Flickr


STUDIO 2 by CFC Photo, on Flickr


and here is a test shot of the lighting that I got. I don't want to post the final group shot as I haven't got permission, but my wife and her friends kindly jumped in to help me test. Lighting was the same for the 10 person group shot. A quick bit of tidying up of the seamless, but that was all.

LIGHT TEST by CFC Photo, on Flickr

Settings again were full power on the Lencarta Elite Pro 2's (300 watts each), F11 and ISO200. Room dimensions are 25ft x 15ft.


Certainly not on the same level that most of you guys produce, but I was just happy to get something acceptable for my friend.

Thanks again for all your help. I would really have struggled otherwise.
 
Diamonddec said:
Certainly not on the same level that most of you guys produce, but I was just happy to get something acceptable for my friend.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you would expect to get for a group shot. As far as lighting goes this is quite good; about as good as it gets without a lot of gear/technique IMO.
 
I am no expert as am still a learner but you have done well.
 
I know Bob. :) I'm fairly competent at photography, so I shouldn't panic as I know that I will always get something and can tart it up in photoshop if necessary... but I always worry about meeting expectations. I think that I look at my photography through critical eyes having learned a bit down the years. Therefore I am much harder on myself. At the end of the day, the lay person isn't going to hold me to those same standards, but I can't help myself.:rolleyes: I always worry and fret about stuff... I'm a half empty kinda guy … so the wife keeps telling me anyway! :oops: :$

Appreciate you all commenting, cheers.
 
Hiya.

Happy it turned out well for you.

The image posted looks great to me. I would be well happy to have gotten a group photo lite like that.

Your mind set sounds very similiar to myself.

Well done.


Gaz

Ps:

Thanks for the update. Not many folk return to the thread.
 
cargo said:
Hiya.

Happy it turned out well for you.

The image posted looks great to me. I would be well happy to have gotten a group photo lite like that.

Your mind set sounds very similiar to myself.

Well done.


Gaz

Ps:

Thanks for the update. Not many folk return to the thread.
Click to expand...
Appreciate that Gaz. Cheers mate.
 
Diamonddec said:
I've had a practice and decided that bouncing both studio strobes off the wall behind me gives me the best coverage and even light. Albeit there are hardly any shadows on the model that i used, floor or background.
Click to expand...
I've just noticed this. In the future, if you want more directional lighting and more of a ratio, you can bounce one of the lights forward/closer. This is essentially what most do when they use a shoot through umbrella (without knowing it).
But, for a large group, flatter lighting with few shadows makes life a lot easier...
 
sk66 said:
I've just noticed this. In the future, if you want more directional lighting and more of a ratio, you can bounce one of the lights forward/closer. This is essentially what most do when they use a shoot through umbrella (without knowing it).
But, for a large group, flatter lighting with few shadows makes life a lot easier...
Click to expand...


Cheers Steven. (y)I'll have a play with that and see what I get. Hopefully there won't be a next time though! :eek: TBH, I really should practice a lot more, but I get fed up just shooting my mannequin. I need to get my finger out and start getting some models in.
 
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