Sigma Full Frame mirrorless + L mount lenses

[Andy Into The Wild]

Apologies if it's already been posted (I didn't see a specific thread for it), but Sigma have also announced a full frame mirrorless camera based on Panasonic/Leica L mount system.

More interestingly, they've committed to developing 14 L mount lenses to match their Sony lineup, which means that neither the Sigma or Panasonic full frame bodies will be restricted to expensive Leica lenses for long...very exciting!

https://www.digitalcameraworld.com/news/sigma-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-is-coming

 

[twist]

Hopefully it's not like their other cameras.

 

[Phil V]

The interesting part to me was the L to EF adaptor, so now Sigma, Panasonic and Leica will be able to use EF lenses.

 

[Andy Into The Wild]

The interesting part to me was the L to EF adaptor, so now Sigma, Panasonic and Leica will be able to use EF lenses.

Agreed, that and the Sigma lenses for the Panny/Leica/Sigma system - I'm less interested in the Sigma body tbh!

 

[the black fox]

going to be a interesting 2019 , I also clicked on to the olympus thread were they virtually stated its olympus 100th year next ,watch this space

 

[twist]

The interesting part to me was the L to EF adaptor, so now Sigma, Panasonic and Leica will be able to use EF lenses.

And Sony, seems Nikon may have missed a trick.

 

[Phil V]

And Sony, seems Nikon may have missed a trick.

To be fair, this is Canon building a future proof lens mount and getting bitten on the bum. Who needs a Canon Camera now everyone else can use their lens mount?

 

[twist]

To be fair, this is Canon building a future proof lens mount and getting bitten on the bum. Who needs a Canon Camera now everyone else can use their lens mount?

I guess, they don't perform like native canon af but then again not everyone needs that extra af performance. The money is in the lenses anyway so maybe it was a smart move.

 

[Phil V]

I guess, they don't perform like native canon af but then again not everyone needs that extra af performance. The money is in the lenses anyway so maybe it was a smart move.

I don’t know what test data youve seen on a camera only announced today, but if Sigma can reverse engineer a lens to AF as well as a Canon, why would they not be able to reverse engineer the camera to use that lens as well as a Canon?

 

[Dryce]

Hopefully it's not like their other cameras.

They have said there will be a FF camera based on the Foveon sensor.

So the good news for some of us is that it will be.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

I guess, they don't perform like native canon af but then again not everyone needs that extra af performance. The money is in the lenses anyway so maybe it was a smart move.

It is definitely a smart move. SA mount is defunct and now it is perfect time to kill it and move the "showcase" system to a more widely adopted and open (I guess?) L mount. They may not sell many bodies for a start but lenses will fly off the shelves. IF and when they get a great sensor together they instantly have adaptable, interchangeable and versatile system.

And it is certainly good news someone else other than Sony or Canon are developing a unique sensor line. You just never know if they will catch up and overtake one day.

 

[twist]

I don’t know what test data youve seen on a camera only announced today, but if Sigma can reverse engineer a lens to AF as well as a Canon, why would they not be able to reverse engineer the camera to use that lens as well as a Canon?

Well they have Sony's af protocols and the mc11 which works okay mostly (not all lenses) but not canon native. They are still reverse engineering and the adapters doing the translations... I'll be very surprised if they match canon native. From what I can tell canikon can't even get their DSLR lenses to perform as well adapted as they can on their DSLRs.

 

[Phil V]

Well they have Sony's af protocols and the mc11 which works okay mostly (not all lenses) but not canon native. They are still reverse engineering and the adapters doing the translations... I'll be very surprised if they match canon native. From what I can tell canikon can't even get their DSLR lenses to perform as well adapted as they can in a DSLR.

I don’t know why you keep repeating this, every person who owns an M mount camera has confirmed that their EF lenses work perfectly.

But no doubt next week, you’ll tell us they don’t again

For hopefully the last time... they do!

Nikon have their own peculiarities, because they didn’t do the job properly when they should have 30 years ago.

 

[twist]

I don’t know why you keep repeating this, every person who owns an M mount camera has confirmed that their EF lenses work perfectly.

But no doubt next week, you’ll tell us they don’t again

For hopefully the last time... they do!

Nikon have their own peculiarities, because they didn’t do the job properly when they should have 30 years ago.

Do they? How are you comparing your M af performance to say a 5d4 or 1dx in the same demanding conditions?

But Nikon's AFC is slower and missing focus with their latest lenses not 30 year old lenses.

 

[Phil V]

Do they? How are you comparing your M af performance to say a 5d4 or 1dx in the same demanding conditions?

But Nikon's AFC is slower and missing focus with their latest lenses not 30 year old lenses.

You don’t even understand what you’re posting! Let alone my posts.

My Canon EF lenses perform as well on the adaptor as native M lenses directly mounted (some faster), comparing to a different camera is ridiculous. The M5 can’t focus like the 1dx. We’re talking about lens compatibility not camera processing speed.

My point about Nikon isn’t about ‘30 year old lenses’ it’s about the fact that 30 years ago Canon moved to an all electronic mount, whereas Nikon have bodged their way through trying to pretend all their lenses were ‘compatible’, which they’re clearly not.

 

[the black fox]

You don’t even understand what you’re posting! Let alone my posts.

My Canon EF lenses perform as well on the adaptor as native M lenses directly mounted (some faster), comparing to a different camera is ridiculous. The M5 can’t focus like the 1dx. We’re talking about lens compatibility not camera processing speed.

My point about Nikon isn’t about ‘30 year old lenses’ it’s about the fact that 30 years ago Canon moved to an all electronic mount, whereas Nikon have bodged their way through trying to pretend all their lenses were ‘compatible’, which they’re clearly not.

My old Nikon 50mm f1.4 ais is amazingly sharp Phil , but in manual focus on a Panasonic or Olympus body

 

[HoppyUK]

To be fair, this is Canon building a future proof lens mount and getting bitten on the bum. Who needs a Canon Camera now everyone else can use their lens mount?

Because Canon makes better cameras? By and large, that's been true over the last few decades and hence consistent market leadership. Not always perhaps, but over time Canon has always delivered and I see no reason for that to change. Canon is now in a stronger market position than ever, even if the camera market itself isn't in great shape.

Sigma cameras with their Foveon sensors are an anachronism, with Sigma's Yamaki Jnr honouring his late father's wish to become a camera manufacturer. He has said as much. They'll never be big sellers, but Foveon has a few diehard supporters who relish the Foveon's remarkable sharpness potential, even if it's hopeless at pretty much everything else (very poor at high ISO, high power consumption, bulky electronics etc) and there's a big question mark over AF performance of a mirrorless Sigma camera. (The same question also hangs over Panasonic - if you haven't got phase-detect AF, then you're just not in the mainstream game.)

 

[woof woof]

Because Canon makes better cameras? By and large, that's been true over the last few decades and hence consistent market leadership. Not always perhaps, but over time Canon has always delivered and I see no reason for that to change. Canon is now in a stronger market position than ever, even if the camera market itself isn't in great shape.

Sigma cameras with their Foveon sensors are an anachronism, with Sigma's Yamaki Jnr honouring his late father's wish to become a camera manufacturer. He has said as much. They'll never be big sellers, but Foveon has a few diehard supporters who relish the Foveon's remarkable sharpness potential, even if it's hopeless at pretty much everything else (very poor at high ISO, high power consumption, bulky electronics etc) and there's a big question mark over AF performance of a mirrorless Sigma camera. (The same question also hangs over Panasonic - if you haven't got phase-detect AF, then you're just not in the mainstream game.)

I'd agree that there are question marks over focus performance of a FF Panasonic as we haven't seen it yet but their MFT cameras can focus pretty much instantaneously. With a fast focusing lens on my Panasonic MFT cameras there's no need to wait for the camera to focus and instead you just point and press the shutter and by the time your finger goes from meter and focus to take the shots it's done it. It is that fast.

If they can get a FF camera to work anywhere near that fast it'll be more than good enough for a lot of people a lot of the time. Tracking may be another question as may be performance in very low light but beyond bragging rights on internet forums in reality cutting edge performance in these areas may be niche needs for many people. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Phil V]

My old Nikon 50mm f1.4 ais is amazingly sharp Phil , but in manual focus on a Panasonic or Olympus body

Exactly.

That’s absolutely fine for twiddlers, but since I was a late adopter of Auto Focus, I expect a modern camera to auto focus instantly and perfectly.

 

[the black fox]

Got to second Alan’s remarks there , totally no a.f problems on my Panasonic , and even when I,m slightly off myself it still seems to get sharpness on the eyes right . Having been through the mill with both Nikon and canon I can only add that the keeper rate per session using MFT cameras and lenses is virtually the same and that includes birds in flight

 

[Cagey75]

I can snap an MF lens into sharp focus as quick as some of the slower AF lenses take. Of course it comes with practice, and having good eyes. There's something more pleasurable about nailing a shot with manual focus. I'm talking true MF lenses, which feel almost always better to use, not this fly-by-wire BS

 

[HoppyUK]

I'd agree that there are question marks over focus performance of a FF Panasonic as we haven't seen it yet but their MFT cameras can focus pretty much instantaneously. With a fast focusing lens on my Panasonic MFT cameras there's no need to wait for the camera to focus and instead you just point and press the shutter and by the time your finger goes from meter and focus to take the shots it's done it. It is that fast.

If they can get a FF camera to work anywhere near that fast it'll be more than good enough for a lot of people a lot of the time. Tracking may be another question as may be performance in very low light but beyond bragging rights on internet forums in reality cutting edge performance in these areas may be niche needs for many people. We'll just have to wait and see.

I beg to differ. Tracking AF performance is vital for a large number of users. I simply wouldn't buy a new camera that wasn't good at that, especially when there are plenty of other cameras that are excellent - Sony FF mirrorless for example, and most DSLRs.

 

[Phil V]

I beg to differ. Tracking AF performance is vital for a large number of users. I simply wouldn't buy a new camera that wasn't good at that, especially when there are plenty of other cameras that are excellent - Sony FF mirrorless for example, and most DSLRs.

This.^

AF speed to most users is usually considered to be important for moving subjects. A camera that focuses on a static subject in a billionth of a second is pointless if it can’t track movement.

Human beings (the important bit) have all the time in the world to focus on static subjects, camera AF is only a real benefit when it can focus on moving stuff.

 

[woof woof]

I beg to differ. Tracking AF performance is vital for a large number of users. I simply wouldn't buy a new camera that wasn't good at that, especially when there are plenty of other cameras that are excellent - Sony FF mirrorless for example, and most DSLRs.

Differ all you want but how many is a large number 50? Everyone -1? And what performance do they need?

My points were simply that you seem to have written off a camera of which there are few if any reports on yet whilst a look at what Panasonic is doing with MFT might indicate that the focus performance may be good enough for many people and uses if we can stop the hyperbole fan boy internet willy waving.

And BTW I did mention cutting edge, just good enough will do nicely and Panasonic might be better than the latest Canikon entries, maybe. Lets just wait and see.

 

[woof woof]

This.^

AF speed to most users is usually considered to be important for moving subjects. A camera that focuses on a static subject in a billionth of a second is pointless if it can’t track movement.

Human beings (the important bit) have all the time in the world to focus on static subjects, camera AF is only a real benefit when it can focus on moving stuff.

Why not take a look at what people are achieving with moving subjects and MFT?

I know it's a big IF but if Panasonic can get anywhere near reproducing MFT focus performance in a FF body or better still better it these cameras may not be half bad.

 

[the black fox]

Why not take a look at what people are achieving with moving subjects and MFT?

I know it's a big IF but if Panasonic can get anywhere near reproducing MFT focus performance in a FF body or better still better it these cameras may not be half bad.

Got to agree , I went through a worrying couple of months when I first changed systems thinking my days of b.i.f were gone . How wrong I was birds , planes ,cars it takes them all in it’s stride the hit rate equals and sometimes surpasses what I could get with a DSLR . And technology is advancing fast it can only get better