Sigma 150-600mm C advice

mant01

mant01

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Tried getting some shots of the garden birds today and still having issues with my sigma 150-600mm. Always seems like the focus is off and Im not sure if its the lens or my 700D. This is actually one of the better ones but still soft. This was taken at 1/500s on a tripod and has even had a little sharpening added to try and help. Do you think the lens needs adjusting? or is this just how the lens is?

IMG_5570 by John Colledge, on Flickr
 
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Your best approach to this problem would be to chose static
subjects, at widest aperture, making sure to note the PoF.
 
Couldn't get near 1/1000 with the light available. Wouldn't of thought for barely moving birds on a feeder and using a tripod I'd need that fast? These were taken at widest aperture. Guess I'll do some proper indoor tests with lighting and see if that improves anything.
 
It is not unlikely that you just need to persevere with the lens and shoot in a range of lighting conditions ect before looking at adjustments. I have known a good number of folk who have purchased their bazookas, put them on the camera and captured a whole heap of crap images.

Everything is working against the photographer at long focal lengths, and bear in mind that wishy washy light is quite likely to influence the images in the same manner. Recently a friend of mine bought the Canon 100-400 and 1.4 Extender and subsequently sent me a load of images he'd taken which he thought were OK, personally I'd have formatted the card before anyone else got near them. I thought he'd taken them using a smart phone with some additional clip on lens attached.

I checked out the kit for him and found it was fine. His problem was unrealistic expectations in poor light and not realising that a small tit is still a small tit regardless of how much glass is attached to the camera. He'd looked at some really tasty images, bought the kit and thought the kit and proceeded to shoot anything which moved and a heap of stuff that didn't. It does take a lot of shooting to get really good with a long lens and in the meantime really good conditions will likely deliver some decent frames to keep one sane.

Not to say categorically no tinkering will be required, more a case of rule a out the other stuff like all the matter that's in the air across a long distance, poor light and insufficient shutter speed/aperture optimisation. And keep it all as still as possible.
 
Mike.P said:
You say it was on a tripod, did you have OS switched on at the time?

Also, take the same shot but use AF via live view.
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I turned off the image stabilizer when putting it on the tripod and also tried live view with little to no difference.
 
Phrasemaker said:
It is not unlikely that you just need to persevere with the lens and shoot in a range of lighting conditions ect before looking at adjustments. I have known a good number of folk who have purchased their bazookas, put them on the camera and captured a whole heap of crap images.

Everything is working against the photographer at long focal lengths, and bear in mind that wishy washy light is quite likely to influence the images in the same manner. Recently a friend of mine bought the Canon 100-400 and 1.4 Extender and subsequently sent me a load of images he'd taken which he thought were OK, personally I'd have formatted the card before anyone else got near them. I thought he'd taken them using a smart phone with some additional clip on lens attached.

I checked out the kit for him and found it was fine. His problem was unrealistic expectations in poor light and not realising that a small tit is still a small tit regardless of how much glass is attached to the camera. He'd looked at some really tasty images, bought the kit and thought the kit and proceeded to shoot anything which moved and a heap of stuff that didn't. It does take a lot of shooting to get really good with a long lens and in the meantime really good conditions will likely deliver some decent frames to keep one sane.

Not to say categorically no tinkering will be required, more a case of rule a out the other stuff like all the matter that's in the air across a long distance, poor light and insufficient shutter speed/aperture optimisation. And keep it all as still as possible.
Click to expand...

You're probably right. I mainly shoot macro so this is a completely different kettle of fish. I'll still do some indoor tests but like you say probably find out it's lack of technique
 
Small animals and birds in particular are constantly on the alert for threats/danger as such its rare that they are ever actually still but always twitching/moving, thus you do need to use high shutter speeds (1/1000 th +) to "freeze" them.
This is why aperture is king when it comes to long lenses for wildlife shooting.
Having said that its not just the birds that are soft, even the feeders are
 
mant01 said:
You're probably right. I mainly shoot macro so this is a completely different kettle of fish. I'll still do some indoor tests but like you say probably find out it's lack of technique
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I do occasionally check my own sanity in respect of Camera, long lens combo by setting up detailed objects at a good distance outside and fire a 600w location strobe at the subjects with the camera sat on a tripod using 2 sec timer and quiet shoot mode.

The exercise beats anything I can do handheld every day of every week. :-)
 
Which focus mode were you using and where was your focus point. Using maximum aperture and too slow a shutter speed won't help when you're shooting small birds, which contrary to what you may think are never still, and the birds and feeders are all at different distances. The only way to tell if the focus is off is by doing a test in good light on a static object. I have the same lens on an old 550D and when things are in its favour it really does work well.
 
Jannyfox said:
Which focus mode were you using and where was your focus point. Using maximum aperture and too slow a shutter speed won't help when you're shooting small birds, which contrary to what you may think are never still, and the birds and feeders are all at different distances. The only way to tell if the focus is off is by doing a test in good light on a static object. I have the same lens on an old 550D and when things are in its favour it really does work well.
Click to expand...

I was using single point focus on the bird facing the camera. I know birds are always doing small movements but like someone else said the feeders are still soft. In other images I photographed small birds directly on the feeder and again the feeder was still soft. It may be a combination of a few things but I'll do some tests and see.
 
Thanks everyone for the advice and help. I'll do a few tests and hopefully get some improvements. Thanks
 
I'd try MA and go from there. With these super zooms, from what I've gleamed by hiring one, light is everything. I took a complete load of poop in poor light at upto iso6400 and suspected a lens issue but as soon as the sun came out everything was good.
 
Is your tripod set-up very stable? It is a long and heavy lens and the wind can play a factor. Also consider a remote release. Did you use single point AF?
 
I am also new to this lens and trying to find my feet , but that looks a little out of focus to me.
I took the photo below hand held but it was very bright yesterday.

DSC_4666.jpg by Philip Dolan, on Flickr
 
That lens is capable of super sharp shots at rediculously low shutter speeds, I’d say you have an issue with either technique or the lens needs adjusting.
I’ve taken shots of birds handled at 600mm, 1/100th sec that are pin sharp

https://flic.kr/p/DXdjw7
 
mant01 said:
Couldn't get near 1/1000 with the light available. Wouldn't of thought for barely moving birds on a feeder and using a tripod I'd need that fast? These were taken at widest aperture. Guess I'll do some proper indoor tests with lighting and see if that improves anything.
Click to expand...

Even for static birds I try to use 1/1000 as birds make lots of small movements barely noticeable to the eye. The faster SS certainly helps with this, as well as shooting in bursts of 3 or so shots. Especially useful with bird feeders that swing ;)

Remember long lens technique too (y)
 
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Going from a macro lens to a tele-zoom is quite a learning curve in handling but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the lens is faulty or that it needs a micro-adjust.
Don't try your tests on birds or anything else living at the moment, use static subjects like ornaments or similar and see how you get on with that ... also try a different AF, single-point is less forgiving with movement off the subject.
If you have the ability with your processing software see where the focus point is reported to be at the time of shutter release.
 
Archie747 said:
Is your tripod set-up very stable? It is a long and heavy lens and the wind can play a factor. Also consider a remote release. Did you use single point AF?
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The tripod was very sturdy and I was sat in my kitchen with the back door open so very little breeze. I also tried a 2 second timer and was using single point for all images.
 
gramps said:
Going from a macro lens to a tele-zoom is quite a learning curve in handling but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the lens is faulty or that it needs a micro-adjust.
Don't try your tests on birds or anything else living at the moment, use static subjects like ornaments or similar and see how you get on with that ... also try a different AF, single-point is less forgiving with movement off the subject.
If you have the ability with your processing software see where the focus point is reported to be at the time of shutter release.
Click to expand...
I'm going to try indoors with a newspaper on an angle. I'll focus on a particular headline and see where the focus falls. Figure if other lines of writing appear sharper then I'll know it needs adjusting.
 
mant01 said:
I'm going to try indoors with a newspaper. I'll focus on a particular headline and see where the focus falls. Figure if other lines of writing appear sharper then I'll know it needs adjusting.
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I would suggest something less flimsy than a newspaper so that you can be sure it is a flat perpendicular surface.
 
gramps said:
I would suggest something less flimsy than a newspaper so that you can be sure it is a flat perpendicular surface.
Click to expand...
I'll try a few different set ups to compare. Cheers
 
magicaxeman said:
Small animals and birds in particular are constantly on the alert for threats/danger as such its rare that they are ever actually still but always twitching/moving, thus you do need to use high shutter speeds (1/1000 th +) to "freeze" them.
Click to expand...

I usually try to get up towards 1/2000 with my Sport if I can. The difference is noticeable.
 
If your tests don't resolve the issue, consider speaking to the service dept at Sigma UK. I found them very useful when I had a fault on my 150-600C which I ended up returning for repair.
 
I did a few quick tests using live view and zooming right in and you could clearly see it hit focus then slightly shifted out. It did this every time without fail. I had to only move the focus ring a touch to get it in sharp focus again. Not sure why its hitting then shifting but I guess it needs just a touch of adjustment.
 
nog said:
Nowt to do with your focus issue but best to take the fat balls out of the green mesh bags as birds can get caught in the mesh.
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Thought the bags were left on so people could hang them up. No problem, I'll cut them out tomorrow.
 
The first copy of this lens I got was soft. The second one is sharp with w little MA done on it.
From what you say about the focusing I would say it needs micro focus adjustment done on it. Mine is now pin sharp wide open.
 
Icee said:
The first copy of this lens I got was soft. The second one is sharp with w little MA done on it.
From what you say about the focusing I would say it needs micro focus adjustment done on it. Mine is now pin sharp wide open.
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Yeah it looks that way, unfortunately though my canon 700D doesn't have the function to do it in-camera. So now I'm going to have to buy the sigma dock. Money I'd rather not have to spend but not much choice sadly.
 
I read recently that someone took some shots whilst sat in a car with the windows down, he shot from drivers side across passenger side and his results were soft, he then shot some more shots straight from drivers side and they were fine. The conclusion was that there were small but unseen to the naked eye eddy currents inside the car which affected the performance of then lens. Might this also be so in your case as you were inside the kitchen shooting out into the garden, I would suggest you try again with everything outside.
Matt
 
MatBin said:
I read recently that someone took some shots whilst sat in a car with the windows down, he shot from drivers side across passenger side and his results were soft, he then shot some more shots straight from drivers side and they were fine. The conclusion was that there were small but unseen to the naked eye eddy currents inside the car which affected the performance of then lens. Might this also be so in your case as you were inside the kitchen shooting out into the garden, I would suggest you try again with everything outside.
Matt
Click to expand...

Indeed, atmospheric haze is very common but even more commonly overlooked!
 
mant01 said:
Tried getting some shots of the garden birds today and still having issues with my sigma 150-600mm. Always seems like the focus is off and Im not sure if its the lens or my 700D. This is actually one of the better ones but still soft. This was taken at 1/500s on a tripod and has even had a little sharpening added to try and help. Do you think the lens needs adjusting? or is this just how the lens is?

IMG_5570 by John Colledge, on Flickr
Click to expand...

It could be potential camera shake even on a Tripod - have you tried burst shooting or 3 second delay to mitigate any potential movement? Also wireless triggers are brilliant for wild life photography.

With burst shooting the first shot will be the softest but generally subsequent shots tend to be sharper.

Here is one I took with a Sigma 150-600mm on a Nikon D300S around 8+ years ago so they are capable of taking good shots.

View attachment 117345
 
In the right hands and in the right conditions it is optically a superb lens capable of producing tack sharp photos. At the 600mm lens things become probably less sharp than say 300-400.

My first thoughts are lighting and technique when looking at your shot in the OP.

Looks like a really damp, dark and grey day with very poor light - poor light = soft images. Strong light = sharp images (generally). Think about how your own vision is on a soft, grey day compared to when it's a sunny clear day, everything appears sharper to the eye when the light is like that.

There is some skill involved in producing sharp photos with this lens though, or any lens which extends to 600mm. I had the 700D before upgrading to the 80D and have used it extensively with the Sigma 150-600 C.

On that camera I didn't like the noise results above ISO 800, I didn't really like them at 800. So then your shutter speed needs to be quick, but if you're on a tripod you can choose a slower shutter speed - is the tripod stable, what kind of head are you using?

Are you rolling your finger to de-press the shutter button or more jabbing at it? (the latter won't help with camera shake etc.)

Sometimes with this lens I hook my finger around the lens hood to support the weight at the front, I'd do this even on a tripod unless you've got it rock solid with a gimbal head or so.
 
I feel your pain. I resorted to getting a lens calibration tool for my Sigma 150-600 Sport. Worked a treat after that. Spent a little time doing it and the longer focal lengths are a real pain in the backside. But I have it dialled in now. The lens cal tool and the Sigma dock are added cost though and I don't think the 150-600 is the best at low light situations .. My Nikon 300mm f2.8 vrii coupled with a 1.5x or 2.0x is a lot better at low light although they are entirely different beasts. Tripods are another issue. I bought a top of the range Manfrotto and even though it seemed solid, there was quite a bit of shake (using both a Wimberley and CB gimbal). Somebody put me on to Feisol tripods and I have never looked back .. superb bit of kit .. have you tried a remote trigger? For gods sake don't buy the Nikon one .. I use a Hahnel that I can also use to trigger multiple flash units and I can also set up a laser, infrared or sound trigger .. it was loads cheaper than the Nikon and does a lot more.
 
MatBin said:
I read recently that someone took some shots whilst sat in a car with the windows down, he shot from drivers side across passenger side and his results were soft, he then shot some more shots straight from drivers side and they were fine. The conclusion was that there were small but unseen to the naked eye eddy currents inside the car which affected the performance of then lens. Might this also be so in your case as you were inside the kitchen shooting out into the garden, I would suggest you try again with everything outside.
Matt
Click to expand...
I have tried outside before as well and the images were still just off sharp. Also when I used live view and focused right in, that was in the living room. Like I said it hit focus then slightly shifted to the back and only needed a touch of manual to get it sharp. So I'd say it's not any haze or heat currents and needs adjusting.
I started photography back in 1998 so I am aware of these kind of things but thanks.
 
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