Shutter vs. Aperature priority? advice please.

Yes it is the rate in which i pan... which was directly connected to the speed of the car. Thats my point.
The speed at which i was panning required that definite shutter speed to get the perfect mix of sharp subject and blurred background.
Manual mode wouldnt have worked and neither would AV or P mode with program shift.
Thats why i felt i needed to defend the use of TV mode :)
 
Well yes, but does that mean the cars are always going at the same speed?
Can you press the shutter when each car is at the exact same point?
If so? my hat is off to you sir!:thumbs:
 
DiddyDave said:
Sarcasm aside though

For changing light situations, i.e. intermittent cloud on a sunny day, or a pitch bathed in sun but with a big shadow area too, you simply meter for each situation and toggle between the two different exposures with your thumb.
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duh never fought of that.... Sarcasm aside though :)

I already do that in large stadiums where there are large sections of dark or light due to the sun behind the stands... I set ISO for the darkest and switch shutter speeds .... switching iso (preffered) is a three fingered job... I would love a camera that lets you flick between settings but the 1dmkII doesn't :(

..

the exact scenario I gave you meant the difference was a few feet of light area then a few feet of dark area... your solution would not work as a player runs too fast between the two. you couldnt do it and neither could someone from "the old days"..
 
The different classes of dragster were pretty much going at the same speed yeh.
the slowest class needed 1/80 and all the middle classes i used 1/100.
I fired off a 4 or 5 shot burst when they were roughly just coming up to being parallel to me.
I could pretty much nail the subject being sharp at 1/100 shutter speed and at 1/120 it was still sharp but the background not so blurred.
Unfortunately the 300mph top fuel class everyone stood up to watch so i couldn't try it with them :(
 
I can't remember the last time I used shutter priority.

80% of the time, I can achieve the shutter speed I need by adjusting the aperture, or, if I wish to keep the aperture at a certain value, adjusting other settings such as ISO speed to get the correct speed, where shutter priority can very wildly in what it decides to adjust to remain at 1/XXX speed.

If I can't maintain the level of control I desire with aperture priority, then I use manual.
 
mmm well I have to say I use both aperture and shutter priority for sports, I use manual when using flash , for panning its usually shutter or manual. Really depends on the light you have to work with and the type of outcome you want.

iain
 
Obviously a lot of clued up opinions. I'm faily new to photography and take mostly travel/landscape shots. I dont have sensational lenses (my kit 18-55 and a 10-20) or body (nikon d40) so an important consideration for me is staying within the 'sweet spot' of f8-11. I find that locking within this region in Aperture priority is the best method of controlling image quality. Does this approach make sense?
 
Sorry to butt in, but a quick question,

Is aperture controlled by the camera body or by the lenses?

as some lenses have a f-stop number on them and on my kit lenses it says
f4.6 -f5.6 etc, the numbers are not accurate but I can control it up to a really small fstop number, so just confusing me,

Thanks
 
Xplosion said:
Sorry to butt in, but a quick question,

Is aperture controlled by the camera body or by the lenses?

as some lenses have a f-stop number on them and on my kit lenses it says
f4.6 -f5.6 etc, the numbers are not accurate but I can control it up to a really small fstop number, so just confusing me,

Thanks
Click to expand...

These are the biggest apertures (smallest f stop numbers) that the lens will open up to at either end of it's zoom. They will go up to smaller apertures often f22 or greater f numbers. I was completely confused as well when I had my first SLR.
:bonk:
 
Ted said:
Obviously a lot of clued up opinions. I'm faily new to photography and take mostly travel/landscape shots. I dont have sensational lenses (my kit 18-55 and a 10-20) or body (nikon d40) so an important consideration for me is staying within the 'sweet spot' of f8-11. I find that locking within this region in Aperture priority is the best method of controlling image quality. Does this approach make sense?
Click to expand...

anyone able to comment on this? just worried that I may be a bit off the mark.
 
Ted said:
anyone able to comment on this? just worried that I may be a bit off the mark.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me Ted. Having your camera in AV is a great way to control a lot of aspects and quality of your photos. Especially for landscapes.
 
Ted said:
Obviously a lot of clued up opinions. I'm faily new to photography and take mostly travel/landscape shots. I dont have sensational lenses (my kit 18-55 and a 10-20) or body (nikon d40) so an important consideration for me is staying within the 'sweet spot' of f8-11. I find that locking within this region in Aperture priority is the best method of controlling image quality. Does this approach make sense?
Click to expand...

Ted said:
anyone able to comment on this? just worried that I may be a bit off the mark.
Click to expand...

That's what I usually do when taking landscapes, as shutter speed isn't usually an issue with things that don't move. If the light isn't too good then I usually just up the ISO but leave aperture at f8-11 if I can. You don't have a sensational lens "10-20" I'm really jealous - next thing on my shopping list:thumbs:
 
I think we covered off the f-stop thing on super-wides on another thread - so to try to be succinct...

f-stops define Dof, on super-wide lenses, the DoF is always very close to infinity - so effectively isn't an issue

Using a super-wide lens' highest IQ aperture is the prime (pun) consideration as DoF is pretty much irrelevant since it's a foot, yard at worst to infinity anyway

Using a smaller f-stop - i.e. f22 or greater is a waste of time (another better pun - anyone?) and actually makes the image less sharp with no obvious DoF benefit

So, if we've eliminated the aperture setting, only the shutter speed/ISO matters

For best IQ - use a low ISO but if that makes the shutter speed <= the reciprocal of the focal length you need a tripod; if you have no tripod, increase the ISO until it's >= the focal length's reciprocal

Oh, and learn to hold it all steady and breath correctly

Simple ain't it

DD
 
DiddyDave said:
I think we covered off the f-stop thing on super-wides on another thread - so to try to be succinct...

f-stops define Dof, on super-wide lenses, the DoF is always very close to infinity - so effectively isn't an issue

Using a super-wide lens' highest IQ aperture is the prime (pun) consideration as DoF is pretty much irrelevant since it's a foot, yard at worst to infinity anyway

Using a smaller f-stop - i.e. f22 or greater is a waste of time (another better pun - anyone?) and actually makes the image less sharp with no obvious DoF benefit

So, if we've eliminated the aperture setting, only the shutter speed/ISO matters

For best IQ - use a low ISO but if that makes the shutter speed <= the reciprocal of the focal length you need a tripod; if you have no tripod, increase the ISO until it's >= the focal length's reciprocal

Oh, and learn to hold it all steady and breath correctly

Simple ain't it

DD
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I'm going to be picky here but don't take it as a personal slight.
DOF is no more important than the hyperfocal distance during landscape photography and they are not the same thing (not that you said they were).

Just for completeness, f22 will only soften your images if diffraction limitation occurs and, this is only an issue if you are printing large.
But yes, a D40 is diffraction limited at about f16.
 
Well for what its worth, me as a relative newcomer to this wonderful hobbie, is just at the stage of moving away from full automatic mode, and I have found this thread extremly helpful, so thanks to everyone here.

I am going to take this new found knowledge and try AV for static objects, and TV for moving - going to Renault world series next weekend so this could be a VERY useful thread for me....thanks.
 
Grahame said:
Well for what its worth, me as a relative newcomer to this wonderful hobbie, is just at the stage of moving away from full automatic mode, and I have found this thread extremly helpful, so thanks to everyone here.

I am going to take this new found knowledge and try AV for static objects, and TV for moving - going to Renault world series next weekend so this could be a VERY useful thread for me....thanks.
Click to expand...

I think after a while people settle into what works best for them.
I don't believe there is a right or a wrong, well, there is actually, if your photos don't look good then you got it wrong.:D
 
Hi Soupy, unless you try name-calling, no personal slight can be had methinks

(I wish you'd talk crap sometime soon so I could throw in the 'You've dropped a Clanger there!' joke)

But I don't get your DoF/Hyperfocal (HP) comment

HP is just a means of extending the overall DoF so I can't see how HP can be more important than the thing it alters - that said, on these super-wides (10-20, 12-24) that are so popular HP focussing when at f8-f16 may mean from 6" onwards is in focus as opposed to 20" onwards - so unless you are very very close to a foreground subject HP makes no difference

Grahame - that's great m8. This has been a thought provoking thread and many contributors have explained themselves well too - which helps everyone

DD
 
You're right of course.
I did not phrase that very well did I.

I'll try and explain what I mean a bit better when I have put some thought into it.
 
OK, having thought about it a bit longer.

DOF extends in front of and behind the plane of focus.
It is commonplace in landscape photography to want everything in focus from forground to infinity.
To maximise the amount of the scene in focus you need work out your hyperfocal distance to avoid the effects of diffraction and using the largest possible aperture.

It's no good focusing at Infinity as you have wasted all of the DOF that extends passed that point.

So, by knowing what your sensors limitations are regarding diffraction, you can then work backwards and determine where you have to focus the lens to acheive the desired effect.

Sadly modern lenses do not offer much in the way of distance scales and DOF markings so a table of variables will prove handy.

Did that make any sense or am I still talking twaddle?:thinking:
 
Its manual, try it and you will find yourself in the future using it more than the other two.

Les F
 
soupdragon said:
OK, having thought about it a bit longer.

DOF extends in front of and behind the plane of focus.
It is commonplace in landscape photography to want everything in focus from forground to infinity.
To maximise the amount of the scene in focus you need work out your hyperfocal distance to avoid the effects of diffraction and using the largest possible aperture.

It's no good focusing at Infinity as you have wasted all of the DOF that extends passed that point.

So, by knowing what your sensors limitations are regarding diffraction, you can then work backwards and determine where you have to focus the lens to acheive the desired effect.

Sadly modern lenses do not offer much in the way of distance scales and DOF markings so a table of variables will prove handy.

Did that make any sense or am I still talking twaddle?:thinking:
Click to expand...



As clear as consomme !!! :D

Here's a very useful DoF/HP calculator I often refer to when teaching to newbies local to me... http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

And to cover my point about HP making sod-all difference on these super-wides in practice, here's an example...

My D2Xs with it's 12-14 @ 12mm & f16 focussed at 1000 feet has a near focus point of 18 inches. So everything from 18 inches onwards will be in focus

If I then use it's HP point and focus there instead - that's just 18 inches away too - everything from 8 inches to infinity will be in focus

So without bothering to use HP focussing I have everything in focus from 18", and with it from 8" - hence, unless I'm laid on the ground and want the closest blades of grass in focus too HP as a technique is unnecessary for such wide lenses

Even more surprising I guess, is that if I open it up wide to f4 and focus at something 6ft away, I still have everything in focus from just 3ft away to infinity

These lenses almost eliminate DoF as a workable tool, the aperture setting becomes more of an exposure control rather than actually affecting the DoF to a noticeable extent

DD
 
whats TV mode?

and whats recommended for takin pics of cars on a track
i tried shutter priority at the weekend. but only got about 3 pics that i'd call any good. the rest were blurry. but i was a fair way away from the track, in the grandstand using zoom
 
Sorry to but in.... But what is 'A-Dep' all about (canon Eos 30D) :thinking: I really should read the manual :D
 
Splog said:
Sorry to but in.... But what is 'A-Dep' all about (canon Eos 30D) :thinking: I really should read the manual :D
Click to expand...

Put really simply, in this mode you focus on the nearest point you want sharp, then you focus on the furthest. The camera then works out the distance it needs to focus on and the aperture to cover this range with the DoF. What makes it a little more of a useful tool than hyperfocal whatits, is that rather than going for max DoF, it set the camera so you get the focus falling off after the far marker distance. Or at least it will try to, shoot with a superwide and as DD pointed out, it's all in the DoF anyway.
 
Boy do you lot make photography complicated......:)
 
dazzajl said:
Put really simply, in this mode you focus on the nearest point you want sharp, then you focus on the furthest. The camera then works out the distance it needs to focus on and the aperture to cover this range with the DoF. What makes it a little more of a useful tool than hyperfocal whatits, is that rather than going for max DoF, it set the camera so you get the focus falling off after the far marker distance. Or at least it will try to, shoot with a superwide and as DD pointed out, it's all in the DoF anyway.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the reply, but now I'm really confused how that works in the camera :thinking: I really do need to read that manual :D
 
I never use shutter priority, I work in AV most of the time. What could be simpler - if it's action, you're not going to get a faster shutter speed at any given ISO than you are with the lens wide open, and if there's sufficient light, then you have the ability to stop down a little.

I might switch to Manual Mode for difficult lighting situations and for some flash applications, but otherwise the camera stays in AV.
 
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