Shutter Speeds.

[Swanseajack]

I am starting to get into bird photography, mainly small birds around the garden using a tripod due to disabilities.

I was looking at some pictures of a Black Headed Gull in water which seemed flat and with good light and there was SS of upto 1/1600 using a monopod.. To me this seems high and nearly upto three times faster to similar pictures I have taken of similar size birds when manual focusing a 300mm f4 lens on my Fuji XT1 via an adapter.

My understanding was to have a starting point of one times your focal length, so in my case 1/320 and the example above of 1/400 as a 400mm lens was used. Looking at some of my similar pictures the highest I have been is 1/640 and that was due to me having arm disabilities and the lens not having IS/VR as it was a legacy lens.

Can you lose some detail by having such a high SS, will you lose some detail as the sensor isn't open long enough??

I don't suppose there is a right or wrong but some guidance would be appreciated. I have gone back to a DSLR this week just for this hobby and the longer lenses available over Fuji.

 

[BRASH]

I mainly use a 500 prime usually wide open @ f/4 and try to get a ss of about 1000 or above handheld. Dependent on lighting conditions it does sometimes fall below that. With a tripod you may get the ss down a fair bit but you can still get camera shake even with a tripod. It'll be trial end error with your set up to see what setting work best in the conditions at the relevant time. A higher ss should not impact on IQ as much as other factors like high ISO or different f stops.

 

[Neil B]

I am starting to get into bird photography, mainly small birds around the garden using a tripod due to disabilities.

I was looking at some pictures of a Black Headed Gull in water which seemed flat and with good light and there was SS of upto 1/1600 using a monopod.. To me this seems high and nearly upto three times faster to similar pictures I have taken of similar size birds when manual focusing a 300mm f4 lens on my Fuji XT1 via an adapter.

My understanding was to have a starting point of one times your focal length, so in my case 1/320 and the example above of 1/400 as a 400mm lens was used. Looking at some of my similar pictures the highest I have been is 1/640 and that was due to me having arm disabilities and the lens not having IS/VR as it was a legacy lens.

Can you loose some detail by having such a high SS, will you loose some detail as the sensor isn't open long enough??

I don't suppose there is a right or wrong but some guidance would be appreciated. I have gone back to a DSLR this week just for this hobby and the longer lenses available over Fuji.

First off the focal length = shutter speed is wrong
Available light/aperture/iso determines what the shutter speed should be for the correct exposure.

 

[Nod]

Simon, the shutter speed/focal length "rule" is a very rough rule of thumb as to what shutter speed is needed to be able to handhold a focal length using a full frame DSLR (or 35mm film), so if the lens is the 300mm you used on a Fuji X-T1 which has a crop factor of 1.5x, you would need a shutter speed of 1/450th of a second to get a sharp shot handheld BUT many other factors come into effect, so some people (young and strong!) may get away with significantly longer shutter speeds while others will need significantly faster. On a good day, I can handhold a 300mm on a crop body at 1/500th but these days I have the benefit of VR on my lens of that length so can get away with 1/125th with relative ease.
What neither VR nor the rule of thumb can compensate for is subject movement, so a higher shutter speed is often needed to freeze the subject. As long as there's plenty of light, you can't really go too fast, although some subjects (prop driven aircraft for example) can benefit from longer shutter speeds. If your 1/1600th s gave a well exposed shot, it gave a well exposed shot, although if the aperture was wide open, I would be tempted (once I had a shot in the bag) to try a slightly slower shutter speed with a slightly narrower aperture to get a little more DoF since very wide apertures can give very shallow DoF so the eyes may be sharp but the beak and tail are soft. Most lenses also perform better when stopped down a little too - another reason to use a slightly smaller aperture.
It all boils down to what results you can achieve with your kit - if you're happy, that's what counts! (Although you might get some stick for posting "substandard" images on the forum!)

 

[Swanseajack]

Thanks for the replies Brash & Neil,

What I was doing with my XT1 was setting auto ISO (max 6400), min shutter speed (1/320 on 300mm f4 lens) and letting the camera do the rest, sometimes I would alter the EC. When looking at the photos on Redrobins recent post, I noticed the SS as 1/1600 @ f9 and too me it seemed very high in good light by the look of things and using a monopod. When I looked at similar photos I had taken the highest SS I recorded was 1/640. Hence me asking the question for me to learn.

So what your saying is let the available light determine your settings and going as high as 1/1600 @ f9 is okay and that high SS will lose not detail in the birds?

First off the focal length = shutter speed is wrong
Available light/aperture/iso determines what the shutter speed should be for the correct exposure.

 

[Swanseajack]

Simon, the shutter speed/focal length "rule" is a very rough rule of thumb as to what shutter speed is needed to be able to handhold a focal length using a full frame DSLR (or 35mm film), so if the lens is the 300mm you used on a Fuji X-T1 which has a crop factor of 1.5x, you would need a shutter speed of 1/450th of a second to get a sharp shot handheld BUT many other factors come into effect, so some people (young and strong!) may get away with significantly longer shutter speeds while others will need significantly faster. On a good day, I can handhold a 300mm on a crop body at 1/500th but these days I have the benefit of VR on my lens of that length so can get away with 1/125th with relative ease.
What neither VR nor the rule of thumb can compensate for is subject movement, so a higher shutter speed is often needed to freeze the subject. As long as there's plenty of light, you can't really go too fast, although some subjects (prop driven aircraft for example) can benefit from longer shutter speeds. If your 1/1600th s gave a well exposed shot, it gave a well exposed shot, although if the aperture was wide open, I would be tempted (once I had a shot in the bag) to try a slightly slower shutter speed with a slightly narrower aperture to get a little more DoF since very wide apertures can give very shallow DoF so the eyes may be sharp but the beak and tail are soft. Most lenses also perform better when stopped down a little too - another reason to use a slightly smaller aperture.
It all boils down to what results you can achieve with your kit - if you're happy, that's what counts! (Although you might get some stick for posting "substandard" images on the forum!)

Thanks Nod for the further explanantion.

Theres some stunning photos in this section and If i can get as half as good as some of them I'll be a happy man.

 

[Neil B]

Thanks for the replies Brash & Neil,

What I was doing with my XT1 was setting auto ISO (max 6400), min shutter speed (1/320 on 300mm f4 lens) and letting the camera do the rest, sometimes I would alter the EC. When looking at the photos on Redrobins recent post, I noticed the SS as 1/1600 @ f9 and too me it seemed very high in good light by the look of things and using a monopod. When I looked at similar photos I had taken the highest SS I recorded was 1/640. Hence me asking the question for me to learn.

So what your saying is let the available light determine your settings and going as high as 1/1600 @ f9 is okay and that high SS will lose not detail in the birds?

If that was needed to prevent the whites from "blowing" (overexposed) then yes, harsh light and white is a bad combination, think of how many Kingfisher shots you see with no detail in the whites.

 

[Swanseajack]

All makes sense now to me, thanks for the advice folks.

If that was needed to prevent the whites from "blowing" (overexposed) then yes, harsh light and white is a bad combination, think of how many Kingfisher shots you see with no detail in the whites.

 

[The W]

The shutter speed you need to freeze the action also depends on the subject. Smaller birds tend to need higher shutter speeds as they move more quickly, while larger birds are more languid. Quoting from The Handbook of Bird Photography (Varesvuo, Peltomäki & Máté), the minimum shutter speed to freeze action at 500mm:

soaring eagle 1/640s, flying goose 1/1000s, flying black grouse 1/1600s, flying swift 1/2000s and flying small bird 1/3200s.

 

[rob-nikon]

I was looking at some pictures of a Black Headed Gull in water which seemed flat and with good light and there was SS of upto 1/1600 using a monopod.. To me this seems high and nearly upto three times faster to similar pictures I have taken

My understanding was to have a starting point of one times your focal length, so in my case 1/320 and the example above of 1/400 as a 400mm lens was used. Looking at some of my similar pictures the highest I have been is 1/640 and that was due to me having arm disabilities and the lens not having IS/VR as it was a legacy lens.

Have you thought the photographer was planning for what would happen next? As the gull was sitting on the water perhaps he was waiting for it to take off? A shutter speed of 1/1600 would be about right to freeze the movement sufficiently during take off. I regularly take perched shots faster than needed as I'm forward planning for the take off shot. I don't have reactions quick enough to change the shutter in time.

 

[Nawty]

Just to make it clear, you do not lose detail from having a fast shutter speed, in fact most people try and keep the shutter speed as high as possible - by avoiding any blur you improve the detail in the shot.

Os course, often the light isn't good enough...

 

[Swanseajack]

Have you thought the photographer was planning for what would happen next? As the gull was sitting on the water perhaps he was waiting for it to take off? A shutter speed of 1/1600 would be about right to freeze the movement sufficiently during take off. I regularly take perched shots faster than needed as I'm forward planning for the take off shot. I don't have reactions quick enough to change the shutter in time.

Just to make it clear, you do not lose detail from having a fast shutter speed, in fact most people try and keep the shutter speed as high as possible - by avoiding any blur you improve the detail in the shot.

Os course, often the light isn't good enough...

Thanks for the further replies. As I said in post 8, it all makes sense to me now.