Should we interfere with this Muslim lot killing each other

dejongj said:
A emoticon online makes all the difference, don't forget that words only make up 7% of communication. You'll have to make up for non verbal,communication and intonation.

Besides what may be funny to you isn't to someone else. That has nothing to do with having a sense of humour or not.
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In the world I live in, I don't have to continually tell people 'I'm joking', it's obvious to them, because that's who I am. I'm not hiding behind a joke, I use humour as part and parcel of all of my life. It comes in handy in both my jobs, where I am required to be entertaining in order to get people to co-operate.

Like I said, it makes me highly suspicious of people who don't recognise humour for what it is, in fact I take an almost instant dislike to people who have a sneering attitude to humour (for clarity, that's not a joke - I find people with that attitude are generally arseholes)
 
Should we interfere with this Muslim lot killing each other

Just to precis the above.
We have constantly interefered in the Middle East, by backing one side against another - Israel/Palestine(from 1948 - could go back hundreds of years though), Iran(1953 the US and the UKoverthrew the democratically elected government and installed a dictator), Egypt(Suez and the more recent coup), Iraq(1979 Iran/Iraq war - we backed Saddam Hussein, 1996 Desert Storm, 2003 invasion), Libya, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon.
We have always interfered in the Middle East, and because of the way that Neo Conservative politics and interventionism works, we will probably continue to do so.
Because of the above, the death toll is in the millions and shows no signs of slowing down.
It also encourages more terrorist attacks around the World.
 
dejongj said:
I'm more and more for outlawing religion and man made rules.
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I tend to agree. At least any public/outward signs of religion. (in private or designated places of worship, no problem)
 
Phil V said:
In the world I live in, I don't have to continually tell people 'I'm joking', it's obvious to them, because that's who I am. I'm not hiding behind a joke, I use humour as part and parcel of all of my life. It comes in handy in both my jobs, where I am required to be entertaining in order to get people to co-operate.

Like I said, it makes me highly suspicious of people who don't recognise humour for what it is, in fact I take an almost instant dislike to people who have a sneering attitude to humour (for clarity, that's not a joke - I find people with that attitude are generally arseholes)
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I appreciate that, however when you are in person or even on the telephone with such people they have the benefit on non verbal,communication, like intonation, posture, a smile, etc.

None of these things are available when you merely put words on paper or an online form. A limited extension is available by using emoticons to infer your are being a cheeky chappy.

Ps. I wish I could be a joker/entertainer in my position. Unfortunately that would be totally inappropriate and unacceptable. People come together from all sorts of perspectives. Just because they aren't the same as you, doesn't make them an arse hole.
 
OldCarlos said:
I tend to agree. At least any public/outward signs of religion. (in private or designated places of worship, no problem)
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I have no issues with private either. Just got to be careful how that is classified.

I mean take the latest issue with the Jewish,community in London where they ban children from school when mum uses a car and drives herself. Their argument is a religious one and that it is a private school and thus their rules.
 
dejongj said:
As Boris let slip from a security services briefing, a bunch of sexually frustrated Muslims w******s who can't get a girl through normal means; abuse, rape or become a hijadist....What a choice eh? One almost forgets there is an alternative which is much more common yet somehow doesn't apply to them?

Just in case there are some sensitive lefties frothing at the mouth, here is one of the many links and references http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/jan/30/boris-johnson-jihadis-are-porn-watching-w******s
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Is'nt boris being a tadd hypocritical? he is afterall a rather large w****r himself.
 
Well Boris didn't come up with the intelligence, so I'm not sure what the point is you are trying to make.
 
NJL said:
Get this thread off this forum, it is offensive.
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???? So all the national news papers are ok but it is not for here. Odd.

If there is anything not accurate why no correct it and discuss it?
 
dejongj said:
... People come together from all sorts of perspectives. Just because they aren't the same as you, doesn't make them an arse hole.
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Of course everyone is different, I certainly don't expect everyone to be like me, or even to like me. But when I make an obvious joke on an Internet forum and someone (who could have chosen to ignore it) chooses to treat it seriously in some high handed point scoring exercise, then tries to defend the indefensible by accusing me of 'hiding behind a joke' ...

That's how I'd define an a******e :)

Ps. There's an ignore button for people who'd rather find offence than chuckle. ;)
 
The real *problem* may start when we add Pakistan nuclear warheads into the equation. It is really not that improbable if you think about it. Al Quaeda is already very influential down there, potentially deeply infiltrated into government and army; and many now swear allegiance to DAESH (ISIS). With this in mind we and the US should have never left Iraq, and now the least the US could do is to colonise the whole bloody place and teach them good life manners.
 
Phil V said:
Of course everyone is different, I certainly don't expect everyone to be like me, or even to like me. But when I make an obvious joke on an Internet forum and someone (who could have chosen to ignore it) chooses to treat it seriously in some high handed point scoring exercise, then tries to defend the indefensible by accusing me of 'hiding behind a joke' ...

That's how I'd define an a******e :)

Ps. There's an ignore button for people who'd rather find offence than chuckle. ;)
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So rather than acknowledging and discussing constructive suggestions on the limitations of communication and the make up of the communication components of it in general. The elements that are clearly lacking when just using words on the Internet, you once again decide to totally ignore it and make it personal???

"High handed point scoring exercise..." where do you get that from. I didn't know we got point, where is the score being tallied? What are the prices? Wow amazing, I guess that just exhibits your true nature behind those "jokes".

:kiss: love you too Phil but from now on I'll just take EVERYTHING you say and suggest as one big joke. There is a joke in that alone actually ;)
 
dejongj said:
So rather than acknowledging and discussing constructive suggestions on the limitations of communication and the make up of the communication components of it in general. The elements that are clearly lacking when just using words on the Internet, you once again decide to totally ignore it and make it personal???

"High handed point scoring exercise..." where do you get that from. I didn't know we got point, where is the score being tallied? What are the prices? Wow amazing, I guess that just exhibits your true nature behind those "jokes".

:kiss: love you too Phil but from now on I'll just take EVERYTHING you say and suggest as one big joke. There is a joke in that alone actually ;)
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That'd improve things :D
 
And back on topic....

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...at-lee-rigby-plot-trawled-al-qaida-propaganda

And then there is the case of Kazi Islam 19yo from London who decides to groom a poor chap with learning difficulties into a Lee Rigby copy cat terrorist. With stuff like this going on, right here on our shores, it is actually clear that there is no option but to interfere with extremist muslims both here and abroad.

I mean take those three girls, it came out that for one of them here father was actually very active and militant. Photographed together side by side with the Rigby killers on a chaudry gathering. Heck the girls even contacted home as it now transpires...There rarely is smoke without fire.

And then there are the twin sisters from Manchester who seem to be at the centre of the online grooming and recruitment campaign. The war is here, and right amongst us. The difficulty will be to distinguish between those extremist and those that are not. That will require very careful consideration and is not easy....
 
BillN_33 said:
Yes - but we can make no difference (at all)

No - and we will be condemned by the "pinkies" and champagne socialists if we don't

Tony has just resigned so there can't be any money in it



bottom line is - we can make no difference whatsoever - we need to protect this country, (Europe) and let them get on with it


- they are 500 years behind Sepp Blatter
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Genocide has been conducted in multiple countries and continents where the world has stood by and done nothing, or waited until it is too late.

My view is there should be a genuine UN or other force that tries to intervene where viable in such situations. People (as in army personnel) would know and understand what they might be signing up to.

You refer to this 'muslim lot killing each other'. You don't specify who you mean, so I assume you mean ISIS, If so, I guess your question is should we let an organisation go one taking on large parts of two countries, possibly expand further, all the while committing murder, rape, slavery, cultural destruction etc against generally defenseless families. My answer to that is we should do everything we can stop it. That might be military action, that might other means, it might be covert, it might be a combination. What it should not be is apathy, or ignoring it as it affects 'muslims only' in your words. People are people, and people are being systematically killed. For me this is what the UN should be all about, but it is completely useless. The security council is a joke, with one side or another vetoing pretty much anything.

There may not be an easy answer, but we should not stop looking for the right one in circumstances like this.
 
BillN_33 said:
Yes - but we can make no difference (at all)

No - and we will be condemned by the "pinkies" and champagne socialists if we don't

Tony has just resigned so there can't be any money in it



bottom line is - we can make no difference whatsoever - we need to protect this country, (Europe) and let them get on with it


- they are 500 years behind Sepp Blatter
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What a thoughtful and balanced post. I shall have to spend some time thinking about the rather complex and intriguing arguments you have made. I take it the middle east is a speciality of yours?
 
Rapscallion said:
What a thoughtful and balanced post. I shall have to spend some time thinking about the rather complex and intriguing arguments you have made. I take it the middle east is a speciality of yours?
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Although in the past I spent time working in several of the affected countries I am no expert on Middle East matters.

We all have our views, which may or may not be useful, but my interest in this thread was in the one question which I thought was now relevant at this time for the UK ........ can we the UK, make a difference in the region?

my views are as follows ...... not really complicated or even complex

It is worrying how the civil war in Syria has developed into a regional Sunni-s***te war in Syria/Iraq, but this was probably inevitable after Iraq ……….. how particular Gulf States, (certain of which are US allies), originally openly funded IS and how this is developing.
The Sunni-s***te war has reached the Saudi border and with the involvement of Iran the Saudi’s are more likely to strengthen their ties with Pakistan with the purchase of further nuclear technology and maybe weapons. The US has no option but to support the Saudi’s but the dynamics in that country could dramatically change as IS increase its influence and and wealth. This has spread to the Yemen where the Iran backed Shiite rebels are flighting the Saudis on their border.

Egypt is moving closer to Moscow and away from US influence………. Sunni Saudi have always been a strong US ally. Russia have always supported Assad’s regime, a natural enemy of Saudi.

The price of oil is important and the Saudi’s could easily flood the market with cheap oil which would hurt the fragile Russian economy.

In particular the financial support that Kuwait has given to rebel groups and the way that Turkey have been involved as a conduit for the movement of money to IS and indeed how Turkey has involved itself in the purchase of IS oil is also worrying. This is quite ironic in that IS are now aligned with the forces that supported the Baathist party in Iraq.

So to give my view on the simple question that I asked .....................There is very little that the UK can do militarily, we are not strong on that front and politically we are now irrelevant in the region.... on the aid front it is complicated to know what to do next

so, should the UK intervene? - not at all - it would serve no purpose and we would be ineffective……. we can only sit back and watch the wild fire spread.....

what's going to happen to the price of oil and it's effect on the world economy is relevant to the UK ...... anyones guess at this time; but I am sure the forecasting models in the worlds financial centres are working overtime to pick up any signs.

we should all be concerned about the wider implications of what is happening and the political solution that must eventually come.... ask Tony, even he can only keep so many balls in the air at once?

or even mischievously from an investment standpoint - should you/I sell my oil company shares? .... probably yes

why do you reckon "Sunni Jim"
 
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