Should we do this deal or not?

johnty52

johnty52

Suspended / Banned
Messages
547
Name
John
Edit My Images
Yes
As the Secretary of our local Camera club /Photo Soc., I have been contacted by a company putting on a musical show asking for some of our members to come along and take photos on show night.
In exchange for permission to photograph and a free entry ticket ( £21) the production company want us to hand over our photos AND Copyright to them.

Here's part of the email . .

Masters Entertainment Corporation would like to invite up to six of your club members to take photographs of The Rat Pack Vegas
Spectacular Show which is a very visual production with lots of costume changes etc.
Each photographer will receive a complimentary pass for the show and will also be offered the opportunity to
purchase tickets for family and or friends at a discounted rate in advance which is usually 2 for 1.
All we ask in return is to receive a DVD of the show images from each photographer within 14 days and to
retain copyright, thus no printing of names on any photographs.
Images may of course be used for your members amateur competitions and portfolios.
Attendance of photographers at our event will need to be coordinated by a nominated club member . . . . ​

Has anyone else been so contacted ?
Is this a good deal ??
Would the photographers be in a contract (£21 ticket for free) and therefore required to hand over the copyright ?

Thanks,
John
 
We've had this earlier this year don't know if it was the same company as yours. The conditions seem roughly the same so six went along and took shots. A CD was produced and everyone was happy.
I didn't go( I was on holiday) but those who did used it for the experience. There was no hassle from the organisers and there have been no problems since.
 
Just read more of you post. It must be the same firm because it was also the Rat Pack.
What are you going to do with copyright anyway?
You get a free night out at a good show and learn different techniques. Don't be so precious about copyright. You probably won't use it yourself.
 
johnty52 said:
Would the photographers be in a contract (£21 ticket for free) and therefore required to hand over the copyright ?
Click to expand...
Their show, their rules. It's up to you if handing over copyright is worth the tickets and the experience.

Judging by their website they seem to have a turnover of cast members, which may be why they approach amateur clubs in this way to keep their photos fresh. But jeez, that's an awful website they've got!

Personally, I might be tempted - but only if rehearsal and backstage access was included. Something that an amateur would struggle to gain access to. Your choice.
 
Thanks Mickledore , Alastair,

I did some pictures for a local Amateur Dram. company last year, at final dress rehearsal, and they were happy for the images' ownership on a quid pro quo basis, ie I retained ownership and they could use them for publicity.

Guess it is a useful opportunity for members to get some new experiences.

John
 
Ask the members of the club rather than members here . It seems pretty black and white , if you've nowt else on then why not :-)
 
We did this also earlier in the year, we had great fun, a CD was produced and everyone was happy. Regarding copyright, yes it could be an issue for some but I went along with the view (as did the 5 others) that a) it was a great opportunity to practice a different genre from what we normally shoot and b) given my lack of experience of gig photography it was highly unlikely that I would produce any shots that would lose me £millions. But everyone who is interested has to make the copyright decision and that obviously will influence whether they attend or not. Hope this helps
 
It could be that they want copyright just so they have control if you happen to get photos of someone falling off stage or whatever as well as letting them use the better ones for promotion. The terms "Images may of course be used for your members amateur competitions and portfolios. " don't seem overly restrictive
 
It sounds fun but I think they're being a mite too stingey with just 1 ticket each.
The backstage pass suggestion is excellent.
 
Sounds fine, you can use the shots for personal promo stuff, so that's fine. Who really are you going to sell the photos to anyway, other than cast members/immediate audience?

They just want some cheap promo shots, you guys want to have fun/experience. Seems there is no conflict of interest there.

I'd be more worried as to whether the show will be good or not!
 
A few of us from our camera club did a shoot for them a few years ago and I would go for it. Great experience using different camera techniques.

They said they would like the copyright but were not strict about it saying they had no objections us showing our images at our club or posting them on our club website.

Great night and I learned a lot after all its not every week you will be asked to do a photoshoot in a theatre.
 
So you spend the night giving them lots of presumably high quality images, essentially without being paid for it (free entry doesn't cut it for me as you're hardly watching the production while shooting), and you don't even own the photos at the end of it?

I'd tell them to stick it personally although in a way I'm not really sure why it's important what others think here. It's really up to the individual.
 
My first thought is that they don't know what "Copyright" actually means. Don't think that because they are a recognized professional body that they do.
I have had several discussions with agents of major performing artists where they claim that they "Own copyright to all images of their artist."
 
Some have suggested that there is no point to the photographer retaining copyright, after all, you're not going to sell the images.. .. .. .. however, on the flipside, giving the copyright away doesn't stop the company from selling the images. I'm sure two hundred plus photos are worth more than £21? Don't get me wrong, i'd love to do it myself, but i'd want to retain copyright. If they were to use the images for promotional purposes, I'd want credit for it. But that's just my personal view, at the end of the day, it's up to you guys.
 
Some good points for and against, thanks folks, food for thought.

To put this into context, the original email request came to me literally as I was reading this thread https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/whitby-abbey-photography-of-english-heritage-buildings.610459/ .

I was thinking about how togs' 'freedom to take pics' is being challenged everywhere (see eg Freedom of Panorama challenge in EU ) and how we need to look after whatever ''rights'' we currently enjoy, including ownership of our images.
 
When I first read this it looked the 'sort' of terms you see with some competitions................in effect "a rights grab". YMMV but those terms to me are the sort to keep a very long arms length.

The organiser is anticipating at least some very saleable/market worthy images for zero outlay on their part. The cost to them of the tickets is IMO zero so they get all the commercial benefits for the unpaid efforts of I surmise a group of togs to whom the only benefit(?) is a set of images for the practice and portfolio...............now say some of those portfolio images were spotted as having perhaps some editorial (paid) value to the tog, they would then have to obtain permission to even use it/them for that purpose even though AFAIK no releases are typically required for editorial usage but as you gave up the copyright you have no rights to publish them in any form other than as stated.

And as the images would not be credited in any or form there is (though unlikely???) no chance of spinoff benefit because of the lack of attribution!
 
Their request is a great example in how to word a rip off in such a way as to make it sound like an opportunity. They are in business to make money, selling shows like this wherever they can. http://www.ratpack.biz/bespoke-rat-pack-shows.php?id=1&TheatreShows

By inviting a bunch of photographers, to shoot in what is a fairly specialised situation, they are playing the numbers game and will expect to get at least a few decent images at no cost to them.

Personally, I get paid for shooting this kind of stuff so, wouldn't go anywhere near it but then again, if someone thinks that they are going to get some amazing images of blokes pretending to be Dean Martin et. al. fill your boots.

On the question of copyright, they don't need it and there is no need to assign it to them.

Bottom line though, they should be paying.
 
DT01 said:
On the question of copyright, they don't need it and there is no need to assign it to them.
Click to expand...

IIRC the Copyright won't actually be transferred without an assignment in writing? But probably a bit of a hair-split...
 
DT01 said:
Bottom line though, they should be paying....
Click to expand...

...if they were getting pro's who know what they are doing, and guarantee pro level shots ... but they aren't, with amateurs the 'payment' is the tickets and (possibly) privileged access , in exchange for which they get shots with no guarantee of quality or comeback if they aren't useable... which seems fair enough to me
 
Last edited:
big soft moose said:
…if they were getting pro's who know what they are doing, and guarantee pro level shots ... but they aren't, with amateurs the 'payment' is the tickets and (possibly) privileged access , in exchange for which they get shots with no guarantee of quality or comeback if they aren't useable... which seems fair enough to me
Click to expand...

Allow me to correct my statement. Bottom line, they should be paying pros.
 
DT01 said:
Allow me to correct my statement. Bottom line, they should be paying pros.
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with that ... but as they arent I don't see a probem with the proposed deal for an amateur
 
DT01 said:
Allow me to correct my statement. Bottom line, they should be paying pros.
Click to expand...

I can't disagree with that ... but as they arent I don't see a probem with the proposed deal for an amateur
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top