Should people have the right not to be photographed

Hi everyone

The law is clear(ish). If it is a public place and we are not causing a breach of the peace or collecting information for an act of terror, then as photographers we are at liberty to photograph members of the public without asking their permission.

Not for much longer - a new law by Mandelson will make this an offence.

This law is being brought into existence without any parliamentary debate at all - as most new laws will soon be.

It is being claimed that this will only apply to professional photographers but seeing the way ordinary photographers are already under attack you can expect to soon be arrested for even having a camera on a street.

Think I'm joking?

Wait and see!
 
Not for much longer - a new law by Mandelson will make this an offence.

This law is being brought into existence without any parliamentary debate at all - as most new laws will soon be.

It is being claimed that this will only apply to professional photographers but seeing the way ordinary photographers are already under attack you can expect to soon be arrested for even having a camera on a street.

Think I'm joking?

Wait and see!

Hi Peter

That is interesting, do you have any more info or links to articles?

God bless
Dave
 
Not for much longer - a new law by Mandelson will make this an offence.

This law is being brought into existence without any parliamentary debate at all - as most new laws will soon be.

It is being claimed that this will only apply to professional photographers but seeing the way ordinary photographers are already under attack you can expect to soon be arrested for even having a camera on a street.

Think I'm joking?

Wait and see!

Can't see it happening - too many phones with camera, digi cams etc.... It would end photography as we know it.
 
Hi Peter

That is interesting, do you have any more info or links to articles?

God bless
Dave

No but there was a thread on here about street photography with a link to the bill - and one of the things being introduced was to ban "Non consensual photographs" which means candid street shots above other things.
 
Here's a link to a petition to stop the bill:

http://copyrightaction.com/forum/uk...and-bans-non-consensual-photography-in-public

The important part is about halfway down:

"The ICO code : put that camera away, my face is private

Not content with abrogating photographers' copyright, another part of Government is now going some way to ban photography altogether in public places, for data protection reasons. The Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) proposed new code for personal information online has "commonsense" new rules that in effect will prohibit photography in public places where anyone who's in the photograph might be unhappy about being photographed. A photo, taken in public, is now deemed private data, y'see.

CCTV, full body scans at airports, no problem, but if an ordinary person takes a photo, this Kafkasesque notion of privacy in public will apply. Unless it's on film. You'd probably be OK taking photos of someone committing a criminal offence too, as ICO thinks this shouldn't be private information.

Mindful of the damage this would do to tourism and how much it would **** off Joe Public to be told he can't use his cameraphone in the street to make humiliating snaps of his drunk mates for Facebook (and quite possibly subsequent orphan use by Rupert Murdoch), ICO have decided that this lunacy shall only apply to pro photographers, a small enough constituency to castrate with impunity.

Of course ICO thinks all pro photography is deeply unpopular paparazzi harassment of our beloved celebrities so it is acting in a most principled manner for, you guessed, the public interest. Minor considerations like journalism, history, social documentary, freedom of expression - and even the simple logic that if you can eyeball it in public, it can't possibly be private - all are just collateral damage. At a stroke, ICO is redefining allowable photography to exclude all that contentious street stuff that has made the record of the last 150 years so insightful. Consensual falsehoods, celebrity promotion, ridiculous propaganda, marketing nonsense will all be fine, however.

"Consultation" has, in the now time-honoured manner, met with stonewall indifference. As far as ICO are concerned, there is not a problem. It simply means pro photographers must not take any photo that anyone in the picture may object to. They don't have to actually object, the photographer has to guess whether they might and do the responsible thing.

Almost always that will mean putting the camera away and going home. In the most CCTV-monitored and nannied country in the world, once the bossed-about public gets the idea that they have a right to not be photographed in public places they wil point blank refuse, just to assert the one tiny freedom left to them. At last they will no longer have to imagine privacy rights they don't have. The prejudice and suspicion against anyone with a big camera will be officially sanctioned. Photographers will not only be potential paedophiles and terrorists, but identity-thieving personal data pirates too.

Of course, we already have police and PCSO's deploying S44 TA2000 for the purpose of interdicting photography in public places. That has admittedly been ruled illegal under ECHR by the European Court in Strasbourg, but HMG assure that is in the public interest too and police say it is a vital part of the fight against terrorism, so the law lives on.

All told, at this rate it will soon be easier to photograph in North Korea than UK."
 
It's certainly easier to photograph 'street' in Afghanistan...lol
 
Hi All,

I enjoy street photography even though I am not that good at it, still finding my feet so to speak.

However, I think that of paramount importance is not to offend, which it would appear is the majority opinion on this thread.

I use a 70 - 200 lens and will often sit in a high street whilst my Wife is off shopping somewhere, watching people and waiting for a moment that seems right. If I take a picture that includes a child I will call the parent over and show them, offering to email them a copy. No one has objected and all have been very impressed and pleased. I have of course made sure they realise I am just an amateur.

All about moderation and politeness I think.

Regards

Chris
 
Thanks for posting the link Peter

It will be interesting to see how this develops; more muddy water it seems to me.

As it happens I am going into London today armed with my "professional" kit which includes the subtle Canon 70-200. I am going to photograph buildings mainly, but I am sure it will involve some people so hopefully it will be trouble free.

God bless
Dave
 
never understood the obsession of taking pictures of strangers in the street. Its akin to watching big brother or any other reality TV show.

Personally I think you should not be allowed to take pictures of strangers purely cause its weird lol
 
In much the same way as landscape photography is like watching the test card?

burn (sorry)



I don't think people should, because the images we have of older generations are priceless and without recorded information we could end up with a cultural dark age when no one knows what happened in a few hundred tears time
 
No need to apologise as I have no idea what you mean. :D

Landscape photography is really really really dull though. I'm glad we can agree on that.

It's OK if you stick some people in it though...
 
I fail to see the difference between taking a photograph of someone and generally looking at them with your own eyes. If they represent a subject/context that appeals to you for some reason that justifies taking a photograph then take the shot. It's probably less obtrusive than staring at them anyway.
 
As long as you do not harass people or disturb public order, then you should have the right to do whatever you please.

Of course some people find that a mere photograph taken far away is harassment. It would be up to a judge to determine what is and isn't within the law.

The street is public, so explicitly you do not have presumption of privacy.

Of course if they say its for "photojounalism", then go ahead and do almost anything you want, no bother... Which I find is unfair and unlawful.
 
No they shouldnt have the right to refuse. Our lives are monitored in many different ways and no one bats an eyelid, yet get out your cam for an innocent shot and your suddenly best buddys with al-qaeda.:shrug:
 
never understood the obsession of taking pictures of strangers in the street. Its akin to watching big brother or any other reality TV show.

Personally I think you should not be allowed to take pictures of strangers purely cause its weird lol

It's not something I usually do, but I started documenting things where I live, because I realised so much has changed over the last 20 years and we've lost things, like huge murals painted on the side of houses.

A knock onto this is the local characters.

This is a local drinker who uses this spot to sink his Stella. Sometimes he has drinking friends with him:
97506278.jpg


This old boy is in town every weekend earning a few extra pennies for his playing
107300486.jpg



Then there's just the nice girls doing the collections at Christmas. I just gave her a smile she turned and smiled back and I took her picture. This was used in the local paper to accompany a nice write up of the charities work.
107300482.jpg



I found in Sri Lanka this year that I spent more time recording the people as it was them that had the most impact on me.
 
But this is nothing new. Look at any photo's back from time and they tell a story. You've only got to look at people like Cartier-Bresson's work
 
Hy Byjer,

We always drop £1 in the old boys hat when we are shopping in Swindon.

Regards

Chris
 
As soon as photographing people in public is made illegal, all kinds of bad things follow.

If you request someone who has taken your picture to stop doing so, and they continue, then you have legal grounds to pursue based on "Harassment", but that's as far as it should ever go.
 
Yes.

I know most people wont care that you are taking their picture, and it wont affect them. But what about those of us that do and have real issues with it? How can we as photographers address this? :shrug:
 
Yes.

I know most people wont care that you are taking their picture, and it wont affect them. But what about those of us that do and have real issues with it? How can we as photographers address this? :shrug:

by not being assholes and stopping if asked, if photographers push too hard there is harassment which is a course of action so 1 picture then being asked to stop at which point you stop is ll good at present and seems like a reasonable enough system to me
 
well I photographed all manner of prime terrorist targets today brandishing my very obvious 70-200 and not one of her majesty's police force so much as gave me a second glance.

I bet there is one group of people who wish it was illegal to take photographs in public....The Household Cavalry!! I would hate to be photographed all day long without a break and with no option to refuse.

Also found this on the front page of The Evening Standard.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...leton-wins-apology-for-tennis-court-photos.do


God bless
Dave
 
by not being assholes and stopping if asked, if photographers push too hard there is harassment which is a course of action so 1 picture then being asked to stop at which point you stop is ll good at present and seems like a reasonable enough system to me

I understand your point, but for me 1 picture would be too many. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think like that either.

It's a shame there isn't really a solution.
 
It would be one step on a slippery slope.

It would start of with "close up" shots (how do you define "close up"). But what happens about a photo that is ever so slightly wider - ban it, then a little wider still - ban it. Where do we end up - you cant take a photo anywhere where people are.
 
I understand your point, but for me 1 picture would be too many. I'm sure I'm not the only one to think like that either.

It's a shame there isn't really a solution.

Perhaps not - but it might make things a little easier if you can identify exactly what it is about having your photo taken that you object to - afterall the camera is only seeing what everyone around you can see.

What the photograph is used for once it has been taken is a different matter entirely - and is subject to different rules.
 
A bit of give and take is what we are missing these days, and that spreads far beyond photography :clap::thumbs::wave:
 
My view on this are quite simple

whilst we have rigthts in public places these should not replace respecting others views on photography wheather it be religous or personal.

i am involved wth doing multi religion events , and have learned that if i ask they are more likely to say yes. personally i dont like to be photographed but at events i dont mind, as this would spoil my pleasure.

just remember respect is a two way street.
 
Not for much longer - a new law by Mandelson will make this an offence.


I'm no fan of Mandy, but it was nothing to do with the Digital Economy Bill, except that it appeared on the same page of copyrightaction.com's blog-cum-forum, as they conceded in the follow-up discussion

copyrightaction.com admin said:
You are 100% correct that the Digital Economy Bill orphan works issue is quite separate from the ICO privacy and data protection issue. Writing both up in the same article as two assaults on photography by two separate government departments (IPO & ICO) seems to have confused some people, and with hindsight was a mistake.

A couple of days later they said

copyrightaction.com admin said:
I do now have permission to publish the ICO letter and will do so as soon as possible, which I hope will clarify all of this, but right now the DEB orphan works provision has been and is the more pressing issue :(

That was in on March 5th. I've not seen it yet.

My interpretation of the ICO consultation they linked, which was only peripherally related to photography by a further guidance note proposal published 18 months ago, was that it was in the context of business use of photographs (e.g. for security passes). I'm afraid that copyrightaction.com's reading appears unduly alarmist to me.
 
they can ask to see the shot...and perhaps have a valid point of not wanting to be in your photograph
but if its of buckingham palace with crowds...i dont think they can have their way

the only situation is if you actually get them in when you could of avoided it...ie they are close to you where your focal point is really farther away and they are compromised to some extent by that proximity



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this fellow was beginning to resent my prescence...
 
Of course their wish of not to be photographed should be respected ... many people do not feel comfortable with their image being recorded ... whether it is legal or not is irrelevant!

Well, then they ain't gonna be leaving their house, because their image is recorded probably at least twenty times between leaving their house and getting into town to do the shopping.
 
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