should I shoot 24p or 25p for an end product on DVD?

markrichardson

markrichardson

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I'm filming a school event tomorrow and the end product will be a DVD for 95% people.

Am I better off shooting 24 or 25 frames per second? Can UK DVD players playback both or is 24p content converted to 25p for a PAL Dvd?
 
If the final output DVD is bluray then 25p, if the final output is standard definition pal widescreen DVD then film in 50i, or 25p but be careful of fast pans. 24p is not really needed in uk mainly us. So just use 25p or 50
 
Bleo said:
If the final output DVD is bluray then 25p, if the final output is standard definition pal widescreen DVD then film in 50i, or 25p but be careful of fast pans. 24p is not really needed in uk mainly us. So just use 25p or 50
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The US audience will most likely benefit from 60i or 30p as that's the standard frame rates for the NTSC system (29.97). Why should 24P be more useful in the US?

Blue ray players, and almost all HDTVs can handle 24p perfectly well, regardless of territory.

Te only "use" for 24P is to give the same feel to moving images as cinematic film as that is the frame rate for most motion picture systems, not because one country's TV system uses it. I know of no TV system that natively uses 24p. Even HDTV usually uses 720/1080 50i/60i. Most BluRay movies are 1080 24P the world over.

most BluRay is 24fps. With digital TV NTSC or PAL frame rates almost become redundant, as almost all players and TVs these days can handle a wide range of frame rates.


If you;re shooting fast action or lots of panning...
 
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David's mostly correct - Broadcast HDTV is output at 720p (sports/action) and 1080i (dramas, etc).
The difference is negligible, but you're better off putting the set-top box to 720p for the best all-round compromise.

24fps on BR media will be usable on most modern (past 3-4 years) TVs, and all computers.
If it's DVD, then you'll be converting whatever you shoot at into 540i PAL/SECAM or 476i NTSC, with your chosen video editing software.

If you don't know the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray, then you need to figure that out and buy the correct discs before you finalise your edit - the two are not interchangeable terms, and differ quite spectacularly between capacity and resolution capabilities.
If you record at 1080p 24, then you can change the output to suit the media being used, and which part of the world it'll be viewed in.
 
Good points cheers. I just simplify everything in front of me. Film 50i or 25p set timeline for the same settings as used in camera then burn to bluray or DVD pal widescreen. Plays in DVD player great. My mate films 24p and won't play on his DVD player, new one.
 
PJ S said:
David's mostly correct - Broadcast HDTV is output at 720p (sports/action) and 1080i (dramas, etc).
The difference is negligible, but you're better off putting the set-top box to 720p for the best all-round compromise.

24fps on BR media will be usable on most modern (past 3-4 years) TVs, and all computers.
If it's DVD, then you'll be converting whatever you shoot at into 540i PAL/SECAM or 476i NTSC, with your chosen video editing software.

If you don't know the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray, then you need to figure that out and buy the correct discs before you finalise your edit - the two are not interchangeable terms, and differ quite spectacularly between capacity and resolution capabilities.
If you record at 1080p 24, then you can change the output to suit the media being used, and which part of the world it'll be viewed in.
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Broadcast TV in the UK is 1080i50, there are no 720p50 broadcasts.
 
There most definitely aren't broadcasts at 720p50, since no such broadcasting standard exists - it's 720p25, given it's been de-interlaced into a progressive scan signal beforehand.

If you're suggesting 720p is a set-top box only output, and that the received signal is always 1080i, then I'd be very surprised to hear that being so.
 
PJ S said:
There most definitely aren't broadcasts at 720p50, since no such broadcasting standard exists - it's 720p25, given it's been de-interlaced into a progressive scan signal beforehand.

If you're suggesting 720p is a set-top box only output, and that the received signal is always 1080i, then I'd be very surprised to hear that being so.
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This is incorrect.

"The EBU Technical Committee recommends that EMISSION standards for HDTV should be based on progressive scanning: 720p/50 is currently the optimum solution, but 1080p/50 is an attractive option for the longer term.

Although there are strong technical arguments in favour of progressive scanning for emission, the EBU Technical Committee recognises that some broadcasters might wish to broadcast 1080i programme material. As consumer electronics equipment (e.g. set-top boxes and displays) will accept both 720p and 1080i formats, broadcasters will be able to select either of these formats – even on a programme-by-programme basis."

1) If you deinterlace i50 you get p50 - why would you use a deinterlacer that reduces temporal sampling frequency?
2) The broadcasting standard in most of the EU is 720p50
3) The broadcasting standard in the UK is nominally 1080i50 but uses PAFF coding.


I wouldn't suggest using 720p50 as an output from your set-top box. Use of 1080i50 or 1080p50 depends on whether your set top box or your TV has the better deinterlacer.
 
I suggest you revisit wherever you came across that information - it's flawed!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/dq/pdf/tv/tv_delivery_of_programmes_to_worldwide_v1.0-2011.pdf

Sorry, not really wanting to get into a piddling contest, but due to how TVs used to work, the broadcast signal was transmitted twice - odd field first, then even.
Due to how our eyes work, the resultant 50 fps meant there was no discernible time difference noticed between fields, creating the impression each frame was being transmitted instantaneously.
When you transmit an interlaced signal, you need to two to create the one frame, ergo if you drop the interlacing, you only need the one frame at 25 fps.

Seriously, if you don't believe me, that's okay, just go and look at the specs on a stills or dedicated video camera.
Progressive will be 25/30 (PAL/NTSC) unless the camera (gimmicky ones) offers double speed at 50/60p giving the option to view at half speed smoothly.

This oddly enough, is how high-speed film operates to give slow motion replay of bullets piercing an apple.
 
Guys I think you are mixing up fields and frames. 1080 50i means 50 interlaced fields making up 25 frames i.e. each interlaced frame is made up of two interlaced fields.
 
I suggest you revisit wherever you came across that information - it's flawed!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/dq/pdf/tv/tv_delivery_of_programmes_to_worldwide_v1.0-2011.pdf


It's not flawed, that text was a direct copy from the European Broadcasting Union Technical Committee (a trade association including the BBC) recommendation on HD in Europe. The BBC don't accept 720p50 HD, however it is in the "HD Ready" and DVB specs and is regularly broadcast in Europe, check out lyngsat for the transmission parameters of RAI, SVT, ZDF, Tele5......

Please see 5.7.1.4 and 5.7.2.2: http://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/101100_101199/101154/01.09.01_60/ts_101154v010901p.pdf

Also, you're mixing up delivery standards with emission standards.






Sorry, not really wanting to get into a piddling contest, but due to how TVs used to work, the broadcast signal was transmitted twice - odd field first, then even.
Due to how our eyes work, the resultant 50 fps meant there was no discernible time difference noticed between fields, creating the impression each frame was being transmitted instantaneously.


No, nothing to do with how CRTs worked at all. (PC Monitors were progressively scanned CRTs). It was an engineering decision, a form of analogue compression which halved the RF bandwidth required to transmit the Luminance signal.




When you transmit an interlaced signal, you need to two to create the one frame, ergo if you drop the interlacing, you only need the one frame at 25 fps.


Again no, you take a 1920x540 sample field and use a filter to vertically expand it to a 1920x1080 frame. So a 50 field per second (25 fps) interlace signal is deinterlaced to a 50 fps signal. Check the patents on famous deinterlacers if you don't believe me.





Seriously, if you don't believe me, that's okay, just go and look at the specs on a stills or dedicated video camera.
Progressive will be 25/30 (PAL/NTSC) unless the camera (gimmicky ones) offers double speed at 50/60p giving the option to view at half speed smoothly.

I'll just check the specs of my dedicated video cameras:

XF305
50Mbps: 1920 x 1080/50i, 25p; 1280 x 720/50p, 25p;

PMW-EX3:
HQ mode: 1920 x 1080/50i, 25p, 1280 x 720/50p, 25p

GY-HM790:
1920 x 1080 (1080p24/p25/p30, 1080i60/i50) 1280 x 720P (p60/p50/p30/p25/p24)


These cameras do NOT frame double. . In order to shoot sport, you need temporal sampling rates of at least 50 fps - these cameras shoot 50 individual frames per second - no frame doubling.



This oddly enough, is how high-speed film operates to give slow motion replay of bullets piercing an apple.

I know, I quite like using the phantom flex at p2500.
 
CSB said:
Guys I think you are mixing up fields and frames. 1080 50i means 50 interlaced fields making up 25 frames i.e. each interlaced frame is made up of two interlaced fields.
Click to expand...

No, I really am not.
 
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