Should cyclists carry mandatory insurance and registration plates?

mex

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Nigel
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I ask this because a friend's wife was stopped at a red light, right next to an entrance to a local park. A cyclist came through the entrance and was unable to stop, he went into the front wing of my friend's wife's car, causing quite a bit of damage to the front wing and scratching the bonnet. The cyclist got up and walked his bike away, my friend's wife was so shook up by what had happened she didn't get any details, but, the car behind her had a dash-cam and caught the incident on video. They have taken advice on what to do regarding the repairs, only to be told that unless the cyclist is honest and insured and comes forward, they basically are stuffed unless they can identify the cyclist and pursue reimbursement through a court.
 
Yes I do agree , I do some cycling and allways feel at risk when riding
Being a decent person if I caused any damage I would sort it with the party involved
 
Was discussed a lot in another thread recently.

You have problems with enforcement and with it then putting people off cycling which would be bad for overall health. Any registration will be small and hard to read so if a cyclist speeds off will you still be able to report?
 
Was discussed a lot in another thread recently.

You have problems with enforcement and with it then putting people off cycling which would be bad for overall health. Any registration will be small and hard to read so if a cyclist speeds off will you still be able to report?

Well, you also have a problem, in that some cause damage to other people's property and no doubt in some cases cause injury to the innocent,now I don't know about you, but I would be pretty p***ed off if a cyclist rode into my car,causing damage and decided to walk away without even apologising.. I'm pretty sure in today's day and age a registration plate could be affixed to identify a cyclist,or indeed his bike if it get's stolen.
 
More & more cars have parking/proximity sensors, not beyond the possibility to have NFC type technology combined with 'collision' sensors do that the car driver has a traceable record of the bike involved.

In other words a digital number plate.

Yes, it would require a step change in making such 'hit & run' collisions 100% unacceptable and would take time to become adopted......but IMO cyclists need insurance and should take responsibility for any damage caused!
 
I don't know about you, but I would be pretty p***ed off if a cyclist rode into my car,causing damage and decided to walk away without even apologising.
I agree.

I also believe that the argument this cannot be done is specious. Enforcement can be done using the existing processes; we know that people drive without licences or insurance and we catch them, often enough.

As to the idea that requiring a licence and insurance would put people off healthy cycling? Doesn't make sense to me but I daresay those with something to hide would agree with it - I'm quite sure most cyclists would not.

Cyclist wearing helmet IMG_3413.JPG
 
Yes, I think they should. I've had two of my cars damaged by cyclists who then just rode off into the traffic and I know of several others whose cars have been damaged too. One had his written off by the insurance as they said it was beyond economical repair - a gouge/scratch from front to back on both wings and doors.

The problem is implementing it - it would be a huge task.
 
I had an incident as a cyclist many years ago, the car driver made a claim on his insurance and the next thing I knew was a debt collection agency contacted me. Luckily my home insurance covered me and after negotiations it was settled as 50/50 and I had nothing to pay.
 
Not against the idea in principle, but it wont happen for a couple of reasons. Difficulty of implementation, and creating barriers to cycling.

How do you apply a standardised identifier to a bike? You can't fit a license plate to a bike, something on clothing is too easily obscured or forgotten.
What would be the age restrictions? Will kids need to be insured? From when they start learning or when the stabilisers come off?

A few years back a family with a toddler were walking along the seafront where I had just parked up and their child was randomly lobbing pebbles collected from the beach. One hit and broke my windscreen, I confronted the dad and he gave me a false phone number so it was left to me to repair. Can we register and insure pedestrians?

Both for climate change reasons and public health there is a much needed drive to get people to drive less and use less or non-polluting forms of transport. Rightly or wrongly that means there is no appetite to put any additional barriers to people getting on a bike.

I do think there should be more policing. There are cyclists, and there a cyclists. Those that are responsible and keep their bikes in good working order, and those that ride around on unroadworthy clunkers. There are existing legal requirements that are not enforced, but it would help if this condition of bikes could be policed even if just by spot checks along with compliance with the highway code. But these days it seems that we don't have enough police to cover serious crime so realistically nothing much will happen here either, but that could be a start of a much wider topic.
 
Well, you also have a problem, in that some cause damage to other people's property and no doubt in some cases cause injury to the innocent,now I don't know about you, but I would be pretty p***ed off if a cyclist rode into my car,causing damage and decided to walk away without even apologising.. I'm pretty sure in today's day and age a registration plate could be affixed to identify a cyclist,or indeed his bike if it get's stolen.

I would but in the same way I once came back to my car and it had a scratch down the side of it (assume as it was in a car park, someone walking between the cars with a bag/coat and zipper rubbed), or the other day noticed a mark on the back where someone has nudged it. No idea where or how, but I try not to get too stressed about it. These things will happen.
 
We had this arrive yesterday.

direct-line.jpg

I wonder if we should have registration and compulsory insurance for cars? :D
 
Nothing like a good bit of anecdote to get the blood boiling righteousness raised, eh? My mate got his car written off by a bike, it's happening all the time.

Let's say straight out that anyone damaging another's property should be held to account, but the actual issue here needs to be considered, and whatever needs to be done, the action needs to be proportionate.

First, that pesky insurance thing. Well, any cyclist who belongs to a cycling organisation has third party insurance, normally for about £10m, It's thrown in with membership and it costs very little to take out independently (although I suspect few do - those that would already have it through other ways) because - and here's the thing - it is an unusual circumstance when a cyclist causes damage, in contrast to a motor car. Neither is there any penalty for claiming, in distinct contrast to car insurance. So, the insurance companies don't think the risk is very high, in my book that is concrete evidence that it is a minor issue. And, before you say "Ah but the insurance companies just expect the cyclist to ride away" ignores the reality that most often in accidents cyclists are incapable of riding away, whosever fault it is, and this demographic is, almost by definition, a more responsible part of the cycling community. Many people also have 3rd party cycling cover on home insurance these days. There is no reason for an insured cyclist not to stop and provide details.

So, what about that problem that cyclists don't stop? At this stage, I have to wonder what that "cyclist" looks like in your mind. In my mind they are just an ordinary person, very like a motorist and they are likely motorists as well. It should come as no surprise that motorists also don't stop. Not only do they have the same psychological makeup as people on bikes, but they are incentivised not to stop, as it will cost them hard cash. Upthread someone said "we know that people drive without licences or insurance and we catch them, often enough." The current estimate is that there are around 1,000,000 uninsured motorists, with about a 1 in 10 chance of being caught (100k prosecutions a year). And then - if you like a nice anecdote - there are the outliers. While we're on anecdotes, we all know that car park scrapes without owning up are common. But, because it doesn't fit into an "us and them" mindset, you just shrug and ignore it. Maybe you do turn it into an "us and them" and have a good sexist rant at women drivers. I've had £1,000 of damage done by a supermarket trolley, and they didn't stop, either. Maybe they need to have license plates too.

So, what IS the problem that needs fixing? When you can't fix the more serious problem caused by cars, that have number plates and are regulated?
 
So, what IS the problem that needs fixing?
Perhaps... using an awful lot of words to say that you don't agree with others? :tumbleweed:
 
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The problem that needs fixing is the entrenched dog whistle approach to transport.
 
Perhaps... using an awful lot of words to say that you don't agree with others? :tumbleweed:
I know it's unfashionable, but I was trying to explain why I didn't agree with others, leaving opinion as far out of it as possible, and presenting some facts and situations that may not have been fully considered by others. It did need a few words and they weren't especially excellently put together, I'm sorry.
 
Well, you also have a problem, in that some cause damage to other people's property and no doubt in some cases cause injury to the innocent,now I don't know about you, but I would be pretty p***ed off if a cyclist rode into my car,causing damage and decided to walk away without even apologising.. I'm pretty sure in today's day and age a registration plate could be affixed to identify a cyclist,or indeed his bike if it get's stolen.
Where would it attach to the bike?
Do pedestrians and horses need plates as well?
 
Where would it attach to the bike?
Do pedestrians and horses need plates as well?

Do you mean something like a car reg.plate? or something a little bit more sensible and realistic, like say, a barcode that could be easily affixed just about anywhere on the frame? IIRC some horses carry identification by means of branding and microchipping. If a horse caused damage to a car, it would be most likely the fault of the car, maybe driving too close to the animal or as some t***s do, sounding their horn to get past !!

EDIT to add, microchipping of horses, ponies and donkeys is now (as of Oct 2020) compulsory.
 
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Where would it attach to the bike?
Logically it wouldn't. The sensible approach would be to put it front and back on a compulsory HiVis vest
Do pedestrians and horses need plates as well?
I don't see why riders shouldn't have them.

For whether pedestrians should, I suggest you consult your local branch of Paranoids are Us. ;)
 
Logically it wouldn't. The sensible approach would be to put it front and back on a compulsory HiVis vest

I don't see why riders shouldn't have them.

For whether pedestrians should, I suggest you consult your local branch of Paranoids are Us. ;)
I've had more pedestrians damage my car than cyclists, so why pick on cyclists.
Also had more horse riders damage my car than cyclists.
 
I've had more pedestrians damage my car than cyclists, so why pick on cyclists.
Also had more horse riders damage my car than cyclists.
As above, if you feel that the law should reflect only your preferences, perhaps you should consider joining Solipsists Anonymous. Of course, it might be difficult to find them as only you exist. Still, keep plugging away and you might get somewhere! :naughty:
 
As above, if you feel that the law should reflect only your preferences, perhaps you should consider joining Solipsists Anonymous. Of course, it might be difficult to find them as only you exist. Still, keep plugging away and you might get somewhere! :naughty:
Oh, you mean in the way this thread was started reflecting only the preferences of some motorists? (and you continue in that vein).

Extraordinary.
 
Do you mean something like a car reg.plate? or something a little bit more sensible and realistic, like say, a barcode that could be easily affixed just about anywhere on the frame? IIRC some horses carry identification by means of branding and microchipping. If a horse caused damage to a car, it would be most likely the fault of the car, maybe driving too close to the animal or as some t***s do, sounding their horn to get past !!

EDIT to add, microchipping of horses, ponies and donkeys is now (as of Oct 2020) compulsory.
Not sure how a barcode can be read, unless
a) you have special equipment with you
b) the bike is near enough for the bar code to be read

Most cyclists will tell you of t***s sounding their horns as they pass close. Not pleasant, not legal and not necessary.

Unfortunately this kind of thread just acts to reinforce division. Not helpful at all.
 
Not sure how a barcode can be read, unless
a) you have special equipment with you
b) the bike is near enough for the bar code to be read

Most cyclists will tell you of t***s sounding their horns as they pass close. Not pleasant, not legal and not necessary.

Unfortunately this kind of thread just acts to reinforce division. Not helpful at all.
a) a phone app.?
b)true.

I can't argue with your statement regarding horns & cyclists.
Do you think cyclists should carry insurance?
 
a) is specialist equipment.

plus - Not everyone has a smart phone, and not all of those know how to read a barcode. (in the same way that not everyone has access to a car - at least 20% of the population don't have access to a vehicle, and this is heavily skewed towards ethnic minorities.)

Most cyclists do carry insurance.

Do you think that pedestrians should carry insurance?

Do you think motorists should carry insurance :D (or maybe better question is should we fund police services better!)
 
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Unfortunately this kind of thread just acts to reinforce division. Not helpful at all.

Actually, I'm not sure you're right. It's worth thinking for a moment about the nature of a forum and the character of the level of conversation, or debate.

Just about everyone who takes the time to post anything on a forum is convinced they have something to say, as we all know that isn't always the case. Some people are entirely convinced that they are right, and are unlikely to be open to rational argument, debate or discussion - I'd go as far as to say that applies to the majority of contributors. That's why I rarely quote someone I take issue with, instead I describe what I want to say and only use quote when I want to respond in conversation.

For example as a rule people who think cyclist must wear hi-viz are unlikely to be convinced otherwise, despite the overwhelming responsibility of piloting a car within the confines of what you can see. After all, they will say, it makes sense - I almost hit a cyclist without lights the other night, and if I had it would have been their fault. The concept of victim blaming goes by in a whoosh of self righteousness.

However, that's not the entire story. Within any community there will be people reading who may not have made up their mind, or who are open to lucid discussion. They may not care enough to join in but I suggest that they are actually the more important factors in consideration. There are always knob heads on both sides of any argument that are going to shout loudly but the intelligent reader will normally recognise them for what they are.

Take the anecdotes at the start of the thread about these Manic Cylists Destroying Our Cars. I've both driven and cycled an unusually large number of miles over my life, I have yet to experience a single instance like that. That's not to say that the people reporting these instances are lying, although they may be experiencing recovered memory who knows, but I am certain that most people's experience will be closer to mine. That is, more poor driving causing accidents, more car park nudges and scrapes causing damage without leaving contact info etc etc than any of these cyclist damaging cars incidents. I am sure they do happen, but the cost of insurance reflects the likelihood, as I pointed out earlier. So, while the initial anecdote will likely raise a sympathetic response from readers as it has happened to someone you consider a "friend", by asking readers to question that, based on their own experience, you do achieve something. Maybe.

I know that in the past I have been educated and changed opinions on subjects because of what I have read and encountered, I don't see myself as unique or self righteous, so there are going to be people like me.

That's why I think it's worth the effort of engaging
 
OK. The thread is somewhat helpful.

Shall we wait until the next one ;)
 
There are always knob heads on both sides of any argument.
Which may or may not be true.

It does raise the serious question of: who decides the "knob headedness" of a contributor and who decides on the "knob headedness" of the decider?
 
That's easy. The reader. I've made an extended study of the matter and it is crystal clear that the majority of them are those who disagree with what I think.
 
...the majority of them are those who disagree with what I think.
Ah!

Rare indeed is honest understanding of our own fraility! :LOL:
 
Actually, to answer your question seriously, for any given post and poster the KH quotient is directly linked to the Opinion:Knowledge ratio, people can have a high KHQ while still being "correct" - right but for all the wrong reasons.

In a specialist forum like this, there is inevitably a large number of contributors with years of experience and deep knowledge of the core subject, that's why despite being an enthusiastic amateur my contributions in the photographic sections tends to be quite limited. In the non-core subjects the standard modus operandi is that anything goes, one person's opinion is as valid as another's knowledge and experience. That's a tendency that social media tends to aggravate and amplify. Add to that the vox-populi that says all you need to learn something is a few weeks with a TV camera pointed at you and you will be as good at it as a professional with years of experience, throw into the mix the toxic "We've had enough of experts" that drove the pro-Brexit campaign and you have the stage set.

If you are arguing with someone who knows more than you about a given subject and has more experience in it than you, chances are your KHQ needle is banging on the max stop.
 
one person's opinion is as valid as another's knowledge and experience.
Depending on the subject under discussion, that is actually correct.

When it comes to matters of fact, we live in a sea of information and not checking the facts before writing is heinous, In many cases, it's obvious that posters are too lazy (or stupid) to simply review what is already common knowledge before writing.

There is, I'm afraid, no way of helping such people.
 
Depending on the subject under discussion, that is actually correct.

Aside from Religion, I 'm curious in what field you think opinion is the equal in value to knowledge and experience? Arguably, philosophy and life sciences are simply opinion, but even there knowledge and experience provides a framework that makes understanding more meaningful and scientific discipline allows meaningful insight, leaving solipsism as the only area where opinion is as valid as knowledge and experience.
 
Depending on the subject under discussion, that is actually correct.

When it comes to matters of fact, we live in a sea of information and not checking the facts before writing is heinous, In many cases, it's obvious that posters are too lazy (or stupid) to simply review what is already common knowledge before writing.

There is, I'm afraid, no way of helping such people.

The fact that someone who doesn't believe the science on anthropomorphic climate change is more than slightly ironic.
 
The fact that someone who doesn't believe the science on anthropomorphic climate change is more than slightly ironic.
Belief and science are mutually exclusive, so I try never to fall into the fool's trap of belief.
 
Aside from Religion, I 'm curious in what field you think opinion is the equal in value to knowledge and experience? Arguably, philosophy and life sciences are simply opinion, but even there knowledge and experience provides a framework that makes understanding more meaningful and scientific discipline allows meaningful insight, leaving solipsism as the only area where opinion is as valid as knowledge and experience.
I think you've misunderstood me.

I take the view that opinion is only of value if it's based on both knowledge and experience. As for solipsism: I've never understood how it can withstand the hard truth of, for example, some nasty person punching you!
 
I've twice had bikes damaged by motorists who left me concussed by the side of the road and drove off.
Both times at mini roundabouts where I had right of way.

To be fair they both did stop briefly to check I wasn't dead.
 
As much as I dislike cyclopaths (you know the ones I'm on about, not all cyclists in general) I think this would be a rather poor idea. Firstly, this is restricting people's freedoms, rather drastically at that. What's next - licence plate while walking down the street. Like when you decide to key in some car or mug someone? Sure, why not. We would all love to wear a prison uniform with ID numbers that on top of CCTV and all sorts other existing surveillance systems. (Besides if dibble was really interested in finding that cyclist they could probably get very close just by using mobile phone records in the area at the time. But they never will because it doesn't concern them or is not of national importance). And secondly, how would you police that they carry genuine number plates? Random stop and searches? This sounds like North Korea already. Rather complain about Police not doing their job protecting people and property at all anymore, bad education and manners of people.
 
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