Shooting with legacy speedlights and Godox X Pro II transmitter

[Blue439]

I have recently transitioned from Phottix studio strobes to Godox monolights. From my earlier days, also remain a Nikon SB-900 speedlight, as well as two Phottix Mitros+ for Nikon ones.

I used to be able to set and fire all those speedlights from my Phottix Odin II transmitter, and I assumed I would be able to do the same thing with my new “Odin II–equivalent”, namely the X Pro II transmitter (technology does go forward, not backward, right?). I looked around to see what receiver would be able to do the job on the speedlight side, and I found the X1R–N (the latter meaning “for Nikon”, there is an X1R–C for Canon and so on) that looked very much like my old Phottix Odin receiver.

It was a bit difficult at first. I thought the easiest way to go would be to set the SB-900 to Manual, but it didn’t work. I found nothing really straightforward on how to achieve what I wanted on the internet, so I ended up asking the techs at Strobepro in Canada, even though I never was a customer of theirs.

Kevin from Strobepro replied swiftly and in a very detailed manner, and his bottomline advice was: set the SB-900 to TTL, and not to M! I did, and it works fine: I can remotely set, adjust and trigger my SB-900 from the X Pro II transmitter on my Nikon Z7 II.

Now, I need to try with the Mitros+ flashes. Them being “for Nikon” flashes, I assume it shouldn’t be too difficult, but we’ll have to confirm that. I’ll come back here to report, hopefully shortly.

 

[Scooter]

Ah yes - the remote SB-900 on the X1R-N thinks it's mounted on the camera, and it only accepts data from a camera via the shot-shoe in TTL The X1RN makes up a TTL story that causes the SB900 to arrive at the manual power settings you dial in (unless you set TTL on the XPro as well of course in which case it actually does some TTL ). If the Mitros flashes can do TTL when mounted on a Nikon camera hotshoe, they should also work on an X1RN

 

[Garry Edwards]

Well done for sorting it out, as you've now found out for yourself it can get very complicated, especially with Nikon.
A very clever Chinese electronics engineer told me, quite a few years ago, that he had successfully "discovered" the camera flash electronics. Canon was the simplest, with 20 A4 pages of plain-language description. Nikon involved 370 pages, and encrypted.

The complex electronics almost certainly explained why the Nikon system was streets ahead at that time, and was the obvious choice for press photographers and similar

 

[Phil V]

Ah yes - the remote SB-900 on the X1R-N thinks it's mounted on the camera, and it only accepts data from a camera via the shot-shoe in TTL The X1RN makes up a TTL story that causes the SB900 to arrive at the manual power settings you dial in (unless you set TTL on the XPro as well of course in which case it actually does some TTL ). If the Mitros flashes can do TTL when mounted on a Nikon camera hotshoe, they should also work on an X1RN

Exactly the same for Canon IIRC, and you can set the flash to Manual and control the power from the transmitter, but it can only accept the signals if it’s in ETTL.

 

[Blue439]

The Mitros+ were unfortunately not totally willing to cooperate... That’s OK, I will resell them both and buy one or two of the Godox ones with built-in X receivers. They will be lighter and easier to carry around anyway. Will have a look at their lineup.

 

[Blue439]

Darn...! Fell victim to an unexpected attack of GAS I hadn’t seen coming... Dropped the speedlight idea and went for an AD200 Pro II instead... Almost the same form factor, bulk and weight, three times the power... Now that I’m sold on the concept, I’m searching for a vendor with good prices...

 

[Garry Edwards]

Darn...! Fell victim to an unexpected attack of GAS I hadn’t seen coming... Dropped to speedlight idea and went for an AD200 Pro II instead... Almost the same form factor, bulk and weight, three times the power... Now that I’m sold on the concept, I’m searching for a vendor with good prices...

View attachment 446152

You may want to search for a vendor with a genuine bricks and mortar business, even though prices may be a little higher. Saving a bit of money is fine if nothing goes wrong, but many online sellers are incapable of providing any level of after-sales service.

 

[Blue439]

You may want to search for a vendor with a genuine bricks and mortar business, even though prices may be a little higher. Saving a bit of money is fine if nothing goes wrong, but many online sellers are incapable of providing any level of after-sales service.

Yes of course, I know that. My local reseller in Lyon often has very good prices, or can matched them when challenged...

 

[Phil V]

Darn...! Fell victim to an unexpected attack of GAS I hadn’t seen coming... Dropped the speedlight idea and went for an AD200 Pro II instead... Almost the same form factor, bulk and weight, three times the power... Now that I’m sold on the concept, I’m searching for a vendor with good prices...

View attachment 446152

I have the original, non pro, absolutely love it.

 

[Dryce]

I have the original, non pro, absolutely love it.

I have the ProII and only just started with it. I'm treating it as a portable studio light rather than a big speedlite. So sticking into a small softbox using an S-Bracket. The downside of the pro II vs the original is the larger head which means you have to fit in through the S-Bracket backwards when setting up which is a minor inconvenience.

It is noticeably bigger and heavier than a normal on camera flash like a TT685 or V860.

I think it's a nice product. I'm annoyed I didn't get one of these units a few years ago. If I continue to be happy with it I'll probably look at getting a second unit in a few months.

 

[Scooter]

Darn...! Fell victim to an unexpected attack of GAS I hadn’t seen coming... Dropped the speedlight idea and went for an AD200 Pro II instead... Almost the same form factor, bulk and weight, three times the power... Now that I’m sold on the concept, I’m searching for a vendor with good prices...

In many ways - you've just skipped a few episodes of GAS and gone straight to the end game If I could only have one type of light, it would be these.

I find the rest of the Godox "AD" series lights to be irrelevant tbh:

AD100 - bulkier (due to cylindrical form factor) and half the power
AD300 - half a stop brighter and even bulkier (cylindrical lights do not pack well into a camera bag, and you can't tape two together easily)
AD400 - one stop more and immense bulk. Just get 2 AD200's and some gaffer tape instead - much more versatile
AD600 - 1.5 stops more, costs more than a Bron studio head and weighs more than the moon. 3 AD200's will be much more useful.

 

[Blue439]

In many ways - you've just skipped a few episodes of GAS and gone straight to the end game If I could only have one type of light, it would be these.

I find the rest of the Godox "AD" series lights to be irrelevant tbh:

AD100 - bulkier (due to cylindrical form factor) and half the power
AD300 - half a stop brighter and even bulkier (cylindrical lights do not pack well into a camera bag, and you can't tape two together easily)
AD400 - one stop more and immense bulk. Just get 2 AD200's and some gaffer tape instead - much more versatile
AD600 - 1.5 stops more, costs more than a Bron studio head and weighs more than the moon. 3 AD200's will be much more useful.

I agree with you on the weight of the AD600, I noted that above. You don’t specify which model you’re referring to, maybe things got a little better with the Pro II that I have, but it’s still quite heavy. However, less so than my former Phottix Indra500 with its battery —because, of course, one must compare apples to apples: a light and its power source. And in this case, I’m not even mentioning the cable and the need to be within 5 meters because it isn’t longer, and so on.

So, heavy, yes, but because I plan to light very large spaces with the AD600s, I think I will need the power —and as we say in the Breton language, Trop fort n’a jamais manqué —“Too strong never failed”.

 

[Scooter]

I agree with you on the weight of the AD600, I noted that above. You don’t specify which model you’re referring to, maybe things got a little better with the Pro II that I have, but it’s still quite heavy. However, less so than my former Phottix Indra500 with its battery —because, of course, one must compare apples to apples: a light and its power source. And in this case, I’m not even mentioning the cable and the need to be within 5 meters because it isn’t longer, and so on.

So, heavy, yes, but because I plan to light very large spaces with the AD600s, I think I will need the power —and as we say in the Breton language, Trop fort n’a jamais manqué —“Too strong never failed”.

Except sometimes "too strong never got to the location as he was too heavy" If you can get it where you need it though it'll do the job well.

I have an original AD600BM

 

[Blue439]

Except sometimes "too strong never got to the location as he was too heavy" If you can get it where you need it though it'll do the job well.

I have an original AD600BM

Too strong’s got a Timber Ridge bright red beach wagon to get there, if needed. And if the going get really tough, them’s got a Beach Rolly too.

 

[Scooter]

Too strong’s got a Timber Ridge bright red beach wagon to get there, if needed. And if the going get really tough, them’s got a Beach Rolly too.

Ah well if you've got a cart - you're golden!

 

[LongLensPhotography]

AD400 - one stop more and immense bulk. Just get 2 AD200's and some gaffer tape instead - much more versatile

Good line of thinking but horrible advice. AD-B2 is a cheap and versatile dual bracket that combines 2xAD200 into one bigger light. Super useful even if using just one light. Proper modelling LED, best Bowens bracket around. Just great stuff.

AD400 is actually smaller than a combo deal, but combo is more versatile. 400 has a terrible terrible battery design. Basically after a month these get disabled. So you need to know to open it up, and press a hidden reset button. Stupid and nasty.

AD600 - 1.5 stops more, costs more than a Bron studio head and weighs more than the moon. 3 AD200's will be much more useful.

again it depends what is more useful. It is highely unlikely to combine all 3 200's so the 600 will certainly shine through in certain circumstances. Not sure what the point is complaining about weight. It lives on the stand, so you don't care. I've shot some huge houses in hurry with one handheld (+ 130cm umbrella) so it is not like job impossible.

 

[Scooter]

Good line of thinking but horrible advice. AD-B2 is a cheap and versatile dual bracket that combines 2xAD200 into one bigger light. Super useful even if using just one light. Proper modelling LED, best Bowens bracket around. Just great stuff.

AD400 is actually smaller than a combo deal, but combo is more versatile. 400 has a terrible terrible battery design. Basically after a month these get disabled. So you need to know to open it up, and press a hidden reset button. Stupid and nasty.


again it depends what is more useful. It is highly unlikely to combine all 3 200's so the 600 will certainly shine through in certain circumstances. Not sure what the point is complaining about weight. It lives on the stand, so you don't care. I've shot some huge houses in hurry with one handheld (+ 130cm umbrella) so it is not like job impossible.

You may find a use for the AD-B2, however the AD series of lights are designed for use on location, and this is where I use them (and these locations are often at the end of a fairly long hike, with some light climbing, or at the other end of a flight ). The AD-B2 only works with the curly bulb heads. These heads are much less efficient than the forward facing Fresnel heads and only make sense if you want to fill a softbox. If you want to combine 2 AD200's, you are almost certainly struggling for power, in which case using the curly bulbs, and a softbox is not a good move. Not to mention the need to carry a softbox around, with its bulk and sail-like properties ) I find taping 2 AD200's with the Fresnel heads together is much quicker, and more light-efficient. The modelling lamp the AD-B2 adds is not really of any use on location (and if you're in a studio, and need a softbox and a modelling light - you're better off using a studio head) I do use the modelling lamps on the Fresnel head - but only as a light locator - ie so I can see where a back-light is in the background through the viewfinder to hide it behind the model etc. There is no logical scenario for me, where the AD-B2 would make more sense than something else.

The AD series lights are battery powered location lights. It's not the weight and bulk in use that's the issue - the weight, and the bulk of an AD600 matters if you have to cart it up a mountain, along with the stand, and some form of reflector or softbox though. If you can use a cart, or you location can be driven to, then sure - an AD600 might make sense, but I find the AD200 with the Fresnel head is enough in even the brightest situations. (and the 3 AD200s can be used separately as well - and so, to me, they are more useful than a single AD600)

I've used one but never owned an AD400. I've read many accounts of the battery problem you mentioned though.

 

[Blue439]

but I find the AD200 with the Fresnel head is enough in even the brightest situations. (and the 3 AD200s can be used separately as well - and so, to me, they are more useful than a single AD600)

I've used one but never owned an AD400. I've read many accounts of the battery problem you mentioned though.

I understand where you're coming from. We each have our own use cases. I have tested the AD200 Pro II at home, where I have some rather large, high-ceilinged rooms, and it labors putting out enough power to do the job properly, unless I carry it handheld and pop it half a dozen times. Then, I manage to end up having covered the whole room but, man, what a lot of post-production work in perspective...! I set up the two AD600 Pro II on their stands in the appropriate places, and I'm done in one exposure —and not even at full power. I really can't see myself lighting a Romanesque church with solely the one AD200. I have seen the American guy from whom I learned the lovely “flambient” technique light houses in California with an AD200 (he does also carry a 600, though), but then we're talking houses –even large ones– not churches.

 

[LongLensPhotography]

You may find a use for the AD-B2, however the AD series of lights are designed for use on location, and this is where I use them (and these locations are often at the end of a fairly long hike, with some light climbing, or at the other end of a flight ). The AD-B2 only works with the curly bulb heads. These heads are much less efficient than the forward facing Fresnel heads and only make sense if you want to fill a softbox. If you want to combine 2 AD200's, you are almost certainly struggling for power, in which case using the curly bulbs, and a softbox is not a good move. Not to mention the need to carry a softbox around, with its bulk and sail-like properties ) I find taping 2 AD200's with the Fresnel heads together is much quicker, and more light-efficient. The modelling lamp the AD-B2 adds is not really of any use on location (and if you're in a studio, and need a softbox and a modelling light - you're better off using a studio head) I do use the modelling lamps on the Fresnel head - but only as a light locator - ie so I can see where a back-light is in the background through the viewfinder to hide it behind the model etc. There is no logical scenario for me, where the AD-B2 would make more sense than something else.

Completely disagree more with this

Power output matters to me and I work 100% on location. Ad-b2 has a solid and reflective design and retains most power out of any bare bracket available. Secondly, a wide angle reflector is really a must if using something like umbrella or anything outside of softbox. That's another stop or more of light. By this point the horrid Fresnel head is left in the dust. I don't use them . Their light output pattern is terrible. Poor light quality. Just all round unusable. Not sure why they even bothered including it

 

[LongLensPhotography]

The AD series lights are battery powered location lights. It's not the weight and bulk in use that's the issue - the weight, and the bulk of an AD600 matters if you have to cart it up a mountain, along with the stand, and some form of reflector or softbox though. If you can use a cart, or you location can be driven to, then sure - an AD600 might make sense, but I find the AD200 with the Fresnel head is enough in even the brightest situations. (and the 3 AD200s can be used separately as well - and so, to me, they are more useful than a single AD600)

I'm afraid you or better your assistant is really lugging 600 up the mountain because this is just barely enough to overpower the sun with hard modifiers on like parabolic umbrella or one of those high efficiency reflectors. 200 is just not doing no matter what

 

[Scooter]

Completely disagree more with this

Power output matters to me and I work 100% on location. Ad-b2 has a solid and reflective design and retains most power out of any bare bracket available. Secondly, a wide angle reflector is really a must if using something like umbrella or anything outside of softbox. That's another stop or more of light. By this point the horrid Fresnel head is left in the dust. I don't use them . Their light output pattern is terrible. Poor light quality. Just all round unusable. Not sure why they even bothered including it

Output matters to me too! and I'm sure the AD-B2 is best at mounting one or two open bulbs but it's still behind the simple Fresnel head that comes with the AD200 in terms of efficiency of light delivery. This is not the fault of the AD-B2, but the open bulbs that go in it, and the reflectors you then need to use (and carry about). Even the best reflector dishes won't equal the light delivery of the rectangular head.. I agree the pattern is pretty terrible from the Fresnel head, around the edges, but I don't see that bit - I'm not lighting an entire room with it - just a single figure mostly. Typically I have a black card tube or extended barn doors on it when using it inside. Just different use cases, but on location - lets say a beach, and I'm up to full power on one AD200 with the most efficient head - the Fresnel one, and I need more light, switching down to the open bulb is not the way to go. Taping a second AD200 to the top or side of the existing one is quick and simple and delivers another stop of light. No softboxes, brollies, reflectors or assembly required. Once you need a softbox then yes - a bigger light with more raw light output will be better.

I've put up some measurements and pictures of the patterns here:

AD200F vs AD200B vs AD600BM

Light output tests for the AD200 with the rectangular Fresnel focused (speedlight type) head, the AD200 with the open curly tube head, with two types of 7" Bowens Mount reflectors, 2xAD200 with the Fresnel head on both and the AD600 with the same reflectors. All lights were set to maximum...

www.talkphotography.co.uk

 

[Scooter]

I'm afraid you or better your assistant is really lugging 600 up the mountain because this is just barely enough to overpower the sun with hard modifiers on like parabolic umbrella or one of those high efficiency reflectors. 200 is just not doing no matter what

and yet we've been using mostly a single AD200 for years to great effect

 

[Scooter]

I understand where you're coming from. We each have our own use cases. I have tested the AD200 Pro II at home, where I have some rather large, high-ceilinged rooms, and it labors putting out enough power to do the job properly, unless I carry it handheld and pop it half a dozen times. Then, I manage to end up having covered the whole room but, man, what a lot of post-production work in perspective...! I set up the two AD600 Pro II on their stands in the appropriate places, and I'm done in one exposure —and not even at full power. I really can't see myself lighting a Romanesque church with solely the one AD200. I have seen the American guy from whom I learned the lovely “flambient” technique light houses in California with an AD200 (he does also carry a 600, though), but then we're talking houses –even large ones– not churches.

Yes I can see if you're lighting an entire church, wall-to-wall, then (bare bulb?) AD600s would be ideal. In fact I may even be tempted to bring 3 studio heads and the LP800 inverter if I've got wheels. It's all about access and ease of transport for me - if I can use the cart, I may take the AD600, but almost always my journey involves tunnels, climbing, sand dunes and rocks - places where the cart can't go

 

[LongLensPhotography]

and yet we've been using mostly a single AD200 for years to great effect

Good for you. They are great (with bulb in) and can do really a lot but you do hit their limit once the sun is out
Fresnel spread of light makes it unusable with anything in my book. The round one is a bit better, but then the little standard reflector with diffuser film is way better than either for some quick direct hit