Shooting off camera flash in TTL mode?

[ajax_andy]

Has anyone tried this and how well does it work?

I've got a couple of weddings coming up where the ceilings are pink & red... not ideal for using flash!!!

I'm planning on shooting the 1st dances using a shoot through umbrella and speedlight. I've never done this before but due to the fact they're going to be moving about I'll need to shoot in TTL mode, and was wondering how well this works?

I've used of camera flash plenty of times but never in TTL mode.

Any pitfalls I need to be aware of?

I have a 7D and Nissin Di866 mark ii so won't need to use wireless trigger receiver... although again it's not something I've used before due to the triggers being a very easy thing to use, however I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you can't shoot TTL off camera with trigger / receiver?

 

[BarryDawsib]

Has anyone tried this and how well does it work?

I've got a couple of weddings coming up where the ceilings are pink & red... not ideal for using flash!!!

I'm planning on shooting the 1st dances using a shoot through umbrella and speedlight. I've never done this before but due to the fact they're going to be moving about I'll need to shoot in TTL mode, and was wondering how well this works?

I've used of camera flash plenty of times but never in TTL mode.

Any pitfalls I need to be aware of?

I have a 7D and Nissin Di866 mark ii so won't need to use wireless trigger receiver... although again it's not something I've used before due to the triggers being a very easy thing to use, however I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that you can't shoot TTL off camera with trigger / receiver?

Canon and Nikon both have some form of off camera TTL system, both Infra-red, or they where last time I checked.

Not a clue on more modern Canon kit though, if in doubt, CTFM (check the ******* manual), might be able to trigger with pop up flash or sticking another Nissin on top of camera

As to needing to shoot on TTL because they are moving, metering for manual and keeping a fairly equal distance (e.g. F4 ISO 100 125th at 7 feat) is pretty easy

Obviously depending on the result you are after of course.

Just remember, TTL wants to light up the whole frame unless you tell it otherwise.

 

[HoppyUK]

Easy peasy. Get some practise in!

I would switch flash metering to centre-weighted rather than evaluative. Make sure the slave is seeing the pop-up master okay. Be ready with flash exposure comp, either on back of the gun or in-camera. Also use normal exposure comp to adjust the ambient if needs be. Maybe gel the flash? Shoot-throughs are wasteful of light and unless you're close the gun might be working quite hard, so if recylce time is slow, push ISO.

E-TTL is good for this sort of thing, but if you hit problems, switch to manual and just make sure you keep the shooting distance relatively constant.

 

[ajax_andy]

Easy peasy. Get some practise in!

I would switch flash metering to centre-weighted rather than evaluative. Make sure the slave is seeing the pop-up master okay. Be ready with flash exposure comp, either on back of the gun or in-camera. Also use normal exposure comp to adjust the ambient if needs be. Maybe gel the flash? Shoot-throughs are wasteful of light and unless you're close the gun might be working quite hard, so if recylce time is slow, push ISO.

E-TTL is good for this sort of thing, but if you hit problems, switch to manual and just make sure you keep the shooting distance relatively constant.

Thanks... yeah I'm starting to think remote trigger / receivers might be better than relying on infr red tbh... not sure but the signal might get blocked by the couple etc?

I has also thought about not using a shoot through and just going with a bare flash (might actually go with 2)... like you said difusing it is just wasting the light and will make it less powerful... also probably less dynamic too.

Flash compensation is a good suggestion... also just changing the aperture too will help with if they get closer / futher away from the light sources.

Should make for some great images but I'll have a play around with it before then and work out the best setup.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks... yeah I'm starting to think remote trigger / receivers might be better than relying on infr red tbh... not sure but the signal might get blocked by the couple etc?

I has also thought about not using a shoot through and just going with a bare flash (might actually go with 2)... like you said difusing it is just wasting the light and will make it less powerful... also probably less dynamic too.

Flash compensation is a good suggestion... also just changing the aperture too will help with if they get closer / futher away from the light sources.

Should make for some great images but I'll have a play around with it before then and work out the best setup.

It's visible light rather IR, but no matter. It should be reliable indoors with low room lighting, but if someone gets right inbetween line of sight you'll be in trouble.

I'm assuming a large room where light from a shoot-through will get diffused everywhere and bounced out of the back into the ether, giving nothing back. A silver brolly might be getter, much more light and less waste.

Adjusting the aperture for distance only works in manual of course, but the inverse square law is harsh when you're close, hence one of the big advanatges of auto-TTL. Bear in mind it's flash to subject distance that matters, not camera to subject, but if the exposure is right at say 2m and then you/they move to just 1m, exposure goes up by two stops, and if it changes to 4m it goes down down by two stops. Hard to stay on top of variables like that using manual in the heat of the moment.

 

[tiler65]

You can use bare flash for portraits but you have to be careful of the skin and the shadows...here is one I shot with a bare 580exII

This was probably zoomed in quite a bit all on manual, I can't remember the exact settings but it still gives a fantastic quality of light.

 

[ajax_andy]

It's visible light rather IR, but no matter. It should be reliable indoors with low room lighting, but if someone gets right inbetween line of sight you'll be in trouble.

I'm assuming a large room where light from a shoot-through will get diffused everywhere and bounced out of the back into the ether, giving nothing back. A silver brolly might be getter, much more light and less waste.

Adjusting the aperture for distance only works in manual of course, but the inverse square law is harsh when you're close, hence one of the big advanatges of auto-TTL. Bear in mind it's flash to subject distance that matters, not camera to subject, but if the exposure is right at say 2m and then you/they move to just 1m, exposure goes up by two stops, and if it changes to 4m it goes down down by two stops. Hard to stay on top of variables like that using manual in the heat of the moment.

Thanks for the information... I didn't realise it was visible light, but you are right about if that gets blocked then I'd be in trouble, so will stick to the remote trigger/receiver combo.

So bouncing it back with a silver umbrella is a better option by the sounds of things? I have one of those too so that wouldn't be a problem.

Good tips on the manual vs TTL mode... think after reading that then TTL is the way to go as you're completely right with what you said.

Very helpful, thanks for that

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks for the information... I didn't realise it was visible light, but you are right about if that gets blocked then I'd be in trouble, so will stick to the remote trigger/receiver combo.

So bouncing it back with a silver umbrella is a better option by the sounds of things? I have one of those too so that wouldn't be a problem.

Good tips on the manual vs TTL mode... think after reading that then TTL is the way to go as you're completely right with what you said.

Very helpful, thanks for that

Strictly speaking it's transmitted visible light, received as semi-IR by the slave. The master gun just stobes very quickly and sends out a load of Morse code like command pulses, along with the regular pre-flash for exposure calc.

Shoot-through or silver or whatever, it depends! It bit of practice in different rooms etc would stand you in good stead to tackle any venue or situation at short notice.

 

[ajax_andy]

Strictly speaking it's transmitted visible light, received as semi-IR by the slave. The master gun just stobes very quickly and sends out a load of Morse code like command pulses, along with the regular pre-flash for exposure calc.

Shoot-through or silver or whatever, it depends! It bit of practice in different rooms etc would stand you in good stead to tackle any venue or situation at short notice.

Thanks, have you ever shot with bare flash or would that be too harsh?

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks, have you ever shot with bare flash or would that be too harsh?

TBH, I'm not sure I ever have, though there's plenty that do because it's easier. I don't care for the harsh shadows and it also makes positioning of the light much more difficult. Get it right and the result can look nice enough, but the subject has only got to turn to one side a little and you get a great black shadow of the nose right across their face. That kind of thing.

I don't shoot weddings but am usually on hand for family/social/parties. I have a rig that's been honed over the years, with two guns and a camera bracket. One fires ceiling bounce direct from the hot shoe and the second is in a small softbox (this one - Gamilight 43, decent size, very efficient and extremely light http://photo-tips-online.com/review/gamilight-square-43-softbox/ ) that I like a lot. The Gamilight is positioned so it picks up the auto-TTL master pulses from the hot-shoe gun which is handy It's a kind of an on-camera studio that, combined with positioning options offered by the bracket (modified Lastolite jobbie) gives lots of versatile lighting options.

Edit: if I was doing this professionally, I'd probably get an assistant to handle the remote flash/brolly. Set everything for say 2m correct exposure in manual and tell them to always maintain that distance.

 

[ajax_andy]

TBH, I'm not sure I ever have, though there's plenty that do because it's easier. I don't care for the harsh shadows and it also makes positioning of the light much more difficult. Get it right and the result can look nice enough, but the subject has only got to turn to one side a little and you get a great black shadow of the nose right across their face. That kind of thing.

I don't shoot weddings but am usually on hand for family/social/parties. I have a rig that's been honed over the years, with two guns and a camera bracket. One fires ceiling bounce direct from the hot shoe and the second is in a small softbox (this one - Gamilight 43, decent size, very efficient and extremely light http://photo-tips-online.com/review/gamilight-square-43-softbox/ ) that I like a lot. The Gamilight is positioned so it picks up the auto-TTL master pulses from the hot-shoe gun which is handy It's a kind of an on-camera studio that, combined with positioning options offered by the bracket (modified Lastolite jobbie) gives lots of versatile lighting options.

Edit: if I was doing this professionally, I'd probably get an assistant to handle the remote flash/brolly. Set everything for say 2m correct exposure in manual and tell them to always maintain that distance.

Yeah i hear what you're saying... maybe one bounced with silver umbrella and one with shoot through or softbox would give a better and more even spread of light than say a bare and a bounced silver brolly.

I can't bounce of ceiling due to colour so that rules out that option... might just need to set it up how in my mind it's going to work and then play around with it for a few minutes until I'm satisfied.

Ahh an assistant would be lovely, but they would probably want to be paid and so that's not an option at the moment sadly.

 

[tiler65]

Andy I think you are complicating things.....

have a look here, many of these are bare flashed 1st dance shots with 'funny' coloured ceilings.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fi...cGJCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=1075

You have to take into consideration some PP work from this type of shot by the nature of you will probably not know what the ambient light will be like on the day/night plus the mix of a DJ/bands lighting rig. Bouncing off a coloured ceiling is NOT hard to correct in PP.

 

[ajax_andy]

Andy I think you are complicating things.....

have a look here, many of these are bare flashed 1st dance shots with 'funny' coloured ceilings.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fi...cGJCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEYQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=1075

You have to take into consideration some PP work from this type of shot by the nature of you will probably not know what the ambient light will be like on the day/night plus the mix of a DJ/bands lighting rig. Bouncing off a coloured ceiling is NOT hard to correct in PP.

Hi Tiler, yeah you're probably right tbf... I suppose as long as there is some light coming from a flash somewhere and it's illuminating the couple, then it's going to look fine.

Looking at those examples I'd say the one's with bare flash are more dynamic and I like the look, so will probably try that out