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Already asked that question a while back. Suprisingly, no answer.
Shooting Junior football...CRB check?
- Thread starter redmonkee
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Already asked that question a while back. Suprisingly, no answer.
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swap places.. what wouyld you think? hand them a business card yes.. but I am not a big fan of printing website pages and offering to people ... at the end of the day you could have written it all yourself and then printed it...
Also you will find the person telling you (wrongly) that you need a crb will be convinced its a fact... i dont think you will sway him with a web printout
I would just tell them I am a photogrpaher.. I do know what I am talking about re photography
anyway none of this should happen if you take my original advice,... organise all this before the game then direct anyone asking to the managers... i would never ever just turn up to a childrens sport event ...organise in advance.
Sophotogenic
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I wouldn't be surprised either - I am sure that some people who I have met before have previously stolen, drunk drove or in anyway shape or form broken the law. It's only when people are caught can they be monitored - this isn't the Minority Report after all.
Yes the law is an ass, and it is a pain for the 99.99% of photographers who are true photographers and who are not weird in anyway - but as usual it is the 00.01% who ruin it for others.
Yes the law is an ass, and it is a pain for the 99.99% of photographers who are true photographers and who are not weird in anyway - but as usual it is the 00.01% who ruin it for others.
Sophotogenic
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No - the best idea is get CRB checked then all of your problems are sorted. Remember though, you can't get yourself CRB checked - you need to get a company to do it for you - umbrella companies I think they are called. Colleges are good.
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So your saying the bit about match photographers not being eligable for crb and it being unlawful to even apply is wrong?
Sophotogenic
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No. Anyone can be CRB checked and if it gives reassurances to parents then why not do it? Ultimately some people refuse to hire photographers without it, just as most commercial clients wont book photographers who aren't insured. It isn't right or wrong, it is just what some people need.
I've taken photos at a junior football tournament and had to get permission from all of the parents to do so. I then had a standard password so everyone there could look at the photos on my website which made it nice and simple - however, one parent out of the 200 there wasn't happy with this arrangement so I had to issue a seperate password to every single set of parents. Made it a lot more complicated, but unfortunately that is a parents right and I had to go with that.
I've taken photos at a junior football tournament and had to get permission from all of the parents to do so. I then had a standard password so everyone there could look at the photos on my website which made it nice and simple - however, one parent out of the 200 there wasn't happy with this arrangement so I had to issue a seperate password to every single set of parents. Made it a lot more complicated, but unfortunately that is a parents right and I had to go with that.
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so the fa are wrong then? Not being funny mate but have you even read this thread?
Sophotogenic
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CaptainPenguin
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Going right back to the very start of this thread why not just shoot open age football there are loads of teams around Saturday's and Sunday's.I shoot every week for my club and regularly the opposition say they wish they had a regular photographer at their games
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it shows
but rather than get you to read it ...Heres a part of the email I got from the FA CRB unit when they refused to even process my CRB application..
neil_g
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my point was the whole princaple of a CRB is a bit of a farse im my opinion.
i certainly wont be going to get one unless i cant afford to turn an insistant client down (and even then it would be them that has to get it).
not that i have anything to hide, itd just be on princaple.
Sophotogenic
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lol right well I found the original post so cheers mate. On your website it says you are CRB checked - how did you get yours?
it shows
bigrob
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The CRB hysteria reminds me of when my youngest was taking his 11+ a year and a half ago.
You apply to the LEA to take the 11+. They send you a letter telling you where and when he is to take the exams.
We didn't get the letter when expected, so phoned and were told another letter would be send. Anyway after they had supposedly send 3 letters I phoned up on the Friday (knowing the exams were the next week).
They didn't want to tell me where and when & said I had to come down to the office with ID in case I was up to no good...
I asked to speak to someone higher up and politely explained I had already given them his name, DOB, address and the primary school he goes. If I was up to no good I wouldn't be doing it as he was going in to a school with a few hundred parents around.
They relented.
All a CRB proves is that you haven't been caught doing anything bad - up to the point of the CRB.
You apply to the LEA to take the 11+. They send you a letter telling you where and when he is to take the exams.
We didn't get the letter when expected, so phoned and were told another letter would be send. Anyway after they had supposedly send 3 letters I phoned up on the Friday (knowing the exams were the next week).
They didn't want to tell me where and when & said I had to come down to the office with ID in case I was up to no good...
I asked to speak to someone higher up and politely explained I had already given them his name, DOB, address and the primary school he goes. If I was up to no good I wouldn't be doing it as he was going in to a school with a few hundred parents around.
They relented.
All a CRB proves is that you haven't been caught doing anything bad - up to the point of the CRB.
Exactly that
The point of the matter is, in terms of the law at least, that a tog does not need permission, nor do they need a CRB for photographing an event on public property. Niceties aside, that is the law. I know for a fact that if someone came up to me and tried to take my camera from me, whether they were a parent or not, the police would be called and they would be in the wrong.
That said, if someone came up to me and asked me what I was doing I would be polite.
Unfortunately, people everywhere do not understand the law. Even people who are supposed to be enforcing it, unfortunately it's becoming more and more commonplace and photographers everywhere are the ones loosing out.
Dave Routledge
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Hi everyone
This is a thread close to my heart, having been question by an angry mother and also had some people call the police when they knew full well I was photographing my own children (my wife and children told them that). In this case of course the police responded to their call and to the dismay of the callers, the police could see what was happening and apologised to my wife, even asking if she wanted them to "have a word" with the people who made the call (the police didn't even speak to me). Thankfully common sense prevailed, but things could have been different.
The angry mother approached me as I was photographing a football match in which my own son was playing (I had already asked the opposing team's manager if he objected). The mother came across from an adjacent field where her son was playing in another match and demanded to know what I was doing photographing children and did I know It was aginst the law. I explained that I was photographing my own son and his team mates, and resented the implication that I was a paedophile. She became uncomfortable at the directness of my reply and very quickly said that she was implying no such thing, before walking off issuing a warning for me not to photograph her son who was playing on the other pitch. I believe that had I argued the law with her, she would have become more aggressive and caused a real scene, because she believed she was right. She had proably told the other parents what the law was about about photogtraphing children and how I was breaking it and how she would stop me. I beleive that confronting her with how she was making ME feel, made her realise I was probably just an innocent dad and that her response was out of proportion, and so she backed down.
Explaining the law is not our problem, the law is clear enough raelly. No CRB check needed (and not possible to obtain one for those circumstances) and no permission to photograph needed either.
Our problem is overcoming perception and hysteria. That is a much more difficult problem to overcome and requires an armoury of common sense, politeness, patience and discernment as to whether our decision to photograph is worth the consequences that might ensue.
If we stand our ground after objections are raised, we will not be subject to arrest for a criminal act, can claim any damages against anyone who takes our equipment and may even win the argument should the police be called and be told we can continue, but would we really want to photograph under those circumstances?
Whilst the law is clear cut and unambigious; No CRB or permission needed to photograph in a public place. The perception issues are complex and multi-layered. I guess each situation needs to be treated on its own merit.
Sometimes I think we should fight and sometimes I think we simply back off.
I think the question of whether people should have the right not to be photographed in a public place would make an interesting debate. Perhaps one worthy of its own thread.
God bless
Dave
This is a thread close to my heart, having been question by an angry mother and also had some people call the police when they knew full well I was photographing my own children (my wife and children told them that). In this case of course the police responded to their call and to the dismay of the callers, the police could see what was happening and apologised to my wife, even asking if she wanted them to "have a word" with the people who made the call (the police didn't even speak to me). Thankfully common sense prevailed, but things could have been different.
The angry mother approached me as I was photographing a football match in which my own son was playing (I had already asked the opposing team's manager if he objected). The mother came across from an adjacent field where her son was playing in another match and demanded to know what I was doing photographing children and did I know It was aginst the law. I explained that I was photographing my own son and his team mates, and resented the implication that I was a paedophile. She became uncomfortable at the directness of my reply and very quickly said that she was implying no such thing, before walking off issuing a warning for me not to photograph her son who was playing on the other pitch. I believe that had I argued the law with her, she would have become more aggressive and caused a real scene, because she believed she was right. She had proably told the other parents what the law was about about photogtraphing children and how I was breaking it and how she would stop me. I beleive that confronting her with how she was making ME feel, made her realise I was probably just an innocent dad and that her response was out of proportion, and so she backed down.
Explaining the law is not our problem, the law is clear enough raelly. No CRB check needed (and not possible to obtain one for those circumstances) and no permission to photograph needed either.
Our problem is overcoming perception and hysteria. That is a much more difficult problem to overcome and requires an armoury of common sense, politeness, patience and discernment as to whether our decision to photograph is worth the consequences that might ensue.
If we stand our ground after objections are raised, we will not be subject to arrest for a criminal act, can claim any damages against anyone who takes our equipment and may even win the argument should the police be called and be told we can continue, but would we really want to photograph under those circumstances?
Whilst the law is clear cut and unambigious; No CRB or permission needed to photograph in a public place. The perception issues are complex and multi-layered. I guess each situation needs to be treated on its own merit.
Sometimes I think we should fight and sometimes I think we simply back off.
I think the question of whether people should have the right not to be photographed in a public place would make an interesting debate. Perhaps one worthy of its own thread.
God bless
Dave
OP
redmonkee
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Gee David!
That is exactly the kind of situation I want to try and avoid. Knowing how to handle that situation is very difficult, and really depends on the kind of person who is objecting to you photographing.
David had a parent from your son's game objected, what would you have said? would you have stopped taking photos?
Also just to throw this one in, Do you think that people react more to older men taking photos as opposed to ladies and younger men (I am not suggesting you are an older man by the way )
That is exactly the kind of situation I want to try and avoid. Knowing how to handle that situation is very difficult, and really depends on the kind of person who is objecting to you photographing.
David had a parent from your son's game objected, what would you have said? would you have stopped taking photos?
Also just to throw this one in, Do you think that people react more to older men taking photos as opposed to ladies and younger men (I am not suggesting you are an older man by the way
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Interesting discussion. I was until fairly recently a Signatory for our Registered Body for martial arts. We got chopped because we did not complete sufficient applications in a year to meet their targets. I now check the documents and pass the form onto another larger registered body through whom we get the checks done. When the ISA comes into force you will only need to get this done once! I've had 3 separate checks done in the recent past - one for martial arts as an instructor, one as a volunteer photographer and one as a tutor on a CertEd course. You also hear of judo clubs where all the club officials, Treasurer, Secretary et al have CRB checks - what a nonsense.
However, I do have a little sympathy for the likes of football coaches and photographers. They are caught between what they see as a duty of care and the rights of the public.
But personally, I think there's little to be gained by anyone 'nefarious' taking photos - the kids are suitably dressed, there's no obvious way to know their identity (unless their names are on their football shirts), most of the parents are there anyway.
Realistically, I'd have thought the best way to gain some photographic experience might be to find some adult weekend football in the park and chat them up about what you want to do and what they can get out of it. What I've seen of kiddies footie pics are pretty unimpressive. I went to a friend's junior rugby match last autumn. He squared it with the ref, no problem taking shots of the boys, but frankly the material was a bit 'uninteresting' compared to the senior rugby. I got some nice shots of his son, but as for the rest, I had nothing I would have published as good photos.
However, I do have a little sympathy for the likes of football coaches and photographers. They are caught between what they see as a duty of care and the rights of the public.
But personally, I think there's little to be gained by anyone 'nefarious' taking photos - the kids are suitably dressed, there's no obvious way to know their identity (unless their names are on their football shirts), most of the parents are there anyway.
Realistically, I'd have thought the best way to gain some photographic experience might be to find some adult weekend football in the park and chat them up about what you want to do and what they can get out of it. What I've seen of kiddies footie pics are pretty unimpressive. I went to a friend's junior rugby match last autumn. He squared it with the ref, no problem taking shots of the boys, but frankly the material was a bit 'uninteresting' compared to the senior rugby. I got some nice shots of his son, but as for the rest, I had nothing I would have published as good photos.
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That has probably happened, and means that a CRB check isn't any sort of cast-iron guarantee. It only means, as has been said, that they haven't been caught. Prior to recent cases, I'd have judged that women were highly unlikely to be involved in any sort of child pornography - and I was proved wrong. Quite shocking.
Dave Routledge
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Gee David!
That is exactly the kind of situation I want to try and avoid. Knowing how to handle that situation is very difficult, and really depends on the kind of person who is objecting to you photographing.
David had a parent from your son's game objected, what would you have said? would you have stopped taking photos?
Also just to throw this one in, Do you think that people react more to older men taking photos as opposed to ladies and younger men (I am not suggesting you are an older man by the way
Hi Philip
I am not sure how I would have reacted if a parent from my son's game had objected, I think I would have strongly argued my case and held my ground, but backed off if it all got too distressing.
I am sure being male causes much more of a reaction.
What has happened, is that what was once a very much brushed under the carpet, even denied by professionals (Freud etc) phenomenon of child abuse (mostly committed by men) has now been exposed to the public, and rightly so. The suspicion that falls upon anyone taking photographs of children is a by product of that public awareness and vigilance.
The mental association betweeen a man with a camera and a child has changed from "happy family photography" to "paedophile activity". That the camera has been used to feul paedophile activity is lamentable beyond belief, but, sadly, it is so.
Perhaps common sense will gradually replace overreaction and hysteria, but while we wait, we are subject to suspicion and hositility, however misguided and unfair that may be. I think our response should be a mix of confident humility in what we are doing, and gracious politeness to give in to the senisitivity of others, even if it means we sometimes miss the shot we are legally entitled to.
God bless
Dave
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I got mine through blackburn rovers who put me down not just as match photogrpaher.. i will be expected to do all the girls and ladies photogrpahy.. including one on one pics and having access all areas (well obviously not all)
thats a big difference between that and photogrpahing pitchside which basically puts you in the same position as anyone else watching the game..