Shooting Junior football...CRB check?

redmonkee

redmonkee

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PHILIP
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This morning I made my way to the local park where two junior teams were just about to kick off.

Having had my new 7D and 300 f/4 for two weeks and not had time to use them I figured this would be a great chance to try my hand at sports photography.

Rather than just start shooting I thought i'd better get permission from the two coaches. Anyway having asked the Away team manager if he minded me taking a few shots of the game he promptly asked me who I was shooting for.

I replied that I was just trying out my new lens and that I wanted to get into shooting football. He then told me that a few guys have come down without even asking for permission and had their camera taken away.

He said that in order to be able to shoot junior football I would need to get a CRB check and preferably one linked with the F.A.

Do any of you know how I'd go about getting one of these?

Cheers

Phil
 
You do not need a CRB check as you are not deemed to be "in contact" or "supervising" the children
 
Total rubbish if as you say it was in the public park (The public domain) you do not need permission from anyone. As for people removing their cameras that in itself is an offence. The F.A. doesn’t own public parks or have the exclusive rights over kid’s football in the park.
You should have called his bluff and asked him to call a police man if he had concerns.
CRB checks have been discussed loads of time on the forums.
I was at a local interschool’s competition held in County Durham and the same thing happened to me. A burly idiot came over telling me stop or I would be removed from the field. I reminded him it was in the public domain. Just as he was starting to tense up against me, a gentleman behind me holding a Cannon DSLR interjected and asked under what authority this guy had to stop people, he Hummed and Hared and said it was law as paedophiles could be watching. The guy with the Cannon then pulled out his I.D. and informed the buffoon he was a Divisional Superintendant with Durham Constabulary there taking a few shots of his grandson and he was free to pursue the matter further offering his own mobile to call the local nick.
After the idiot sulked off the “super” told me as long as there is no charge and in the public domain i.e. an open public place any individual is free to partake in any interest, hobby or pastime as long as it did not hinder, spoil or cause interference that could lead to a breach of the peace. If it had been a closed event i.e. pay to enter or on private land then they could have, with notices present, requested no photography. It wasn’t, it was an open public park.

Sounds like you had the same buffoon as me.

It comes down to the mistrust that has been instilled on us all now by our wonderful government. We view everyone as terrorists and paedophiles see Marcel’s current tag on the forum “Were not terrorists” he has a very valid point.
 
He hasn't said it was a public park, yet.
 
Dave that sounds like it could have got nasty. And that's exactly what I want to avoid. I'm not a big guy so it wouldn't take much for an idiot to try it on with me. Is it worth getting a CRB to diffuse any potential situation or are there any other documents worth taking?

I have been on the F.A website and it states on there it is not an offense to photograph on public land, maybe I should print this off and take that next time?
 
It’s down to sad individuals Philip. A CRB check is worthless; the buffoon probably doesn’t even know what one looks like. CRB checks are for people who work with or supervise children and venerable people. I am a retired fire officer and I had CRB and (Home Office -
P2) checks years ago, as we did school visits and property visits and advisories to venerable people. (Old frail learning needs) etc.
From that day I was never asked again I could have been given the all clear on Monday morning and offended on the Tuesday but I have my CRB check that proves beyond doubt I am not a threat. No! It proves on or before that date I had nothing registered against me.
Some idiot has heard down the pub the term CRB and now feels he is well informed.
Best advice I can give you is don’t bother it is highly unlikely you can get a CRB on yourself as it’s normally employers who have to prove why they need the said information. I.e. prove that they, as well as you, meet the criteria to warrant such a check. Not just anyone can apply.
It’s a case of guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. Don’t fall for it. You probably did right in walking away. In my eyes you’re the better person.
 
Not only do you not need a CRB

The FA will NOT issue a CRB to match day photographers Thats a FACT!

The following is part of an email I got from the FA CRB unit

CRB is defined by very specific eligibility criteria and it is not lawful to check someone who is not eligible even if they agree! In simple terms the eligibility criteria in football is for the individual to be "caring for, training, supervising or being in sole charge of children". Whilst this in itself could be open to interpretation however most club photographers take pictures during the game and "official" team photos. There is no legal eligibility to CRB check someone for taking photos or being in possession of images.
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The full email and story can be found on my website here http://www.kipax.com/crb.php
 
KIPAX said:
Not only do you not need a CRB

The FA will NOT issue a CRB to match day photographers Thats a FACT!

The following is part of an email I got from the FA CRB unit
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Spot on KIPAX thanks for that quote !
 
If it's a public park, then theoretically you can just snap away. However, most kids leagues dictate that you have to ask not only both coaches but also each player's parents before you are allowed to shoot. I had to go through this several times last year, thank god it was only 6 a side :lol::lol::lol:

Having said that, the public park bit trumps that, so short of stopping the game, there's not much they can do about it. I think that sort of rule is only any good if you are playing at a football club's ground where it's private.

The CRB bit is absolute rubbish, as is the removal of the cameras.
 
redmonkee said:
Kipax

that is what I have also read.

So the question is if I go to a game next week and manage to get permission off the two coaches then during the game a parent comes up to me and requests me to stop or asks to see a CRB certificate what would be the best way to respond?
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Pleasently then ask them to speak to the two coaches.. i shoot a lot of junior sport on public playing fields and no one has ever approached me..

I always organise photographing a game before the day rather than just turn up. I make sure both managers agree and I ask them to inform all parents.. I then speak to the referee on the day..and to be honest they seem dissinterested :)

If random person asks me then I would just direct them to the managers.
 
If it was a public park then you were fully entitled to take shots however because of the hysteria whipped up that says if a photographer is not a terrorist then he is a paedophile problems like yours occur.There is plenty of adult football played in parks so why not ask the managers of those teams for permission to shoot,if you can get them up on the net I am sure the players would love to see them
 
Nigel

The reason I decided to go to a Junior game was due to it being played a t a slower pace and therefore maybe easier for a first timer to shoot:D

Also I would eventually (once I get good enough) like to sell prints to the parents via my website, and I figured parents are more likely to buy photos of their kids playing footy than open age players buying pics of themselves....I may be wrong on this assumption however!
 
If the "public" park is owned by the local council then is it "public"?. If the game is played in a public park as a kick about then it maybe so, but if the pitch is hired from the local council then it may be deemed as a private event. If so then permission must be gained by the people running the event. Where teams are involved individual parents may object even if they are not the "main" person in the photograph unless an agreement had been made beforehand. CRB is not required unless stipulated by the organisers and only if engaged to photograph the event.
This is not the letter of the law but could be an interpretation and if you think this is bad you should read the "new" copyright law show it be passed!
 
redmonkee said:
Nigel

The reason I decided to go to a Junior game was due to it being played a t a slower pace and therefore maybe easier for a first timer to shoot:D
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Its harder to shoot actually.. seriously ...
 
snapzz said:
CRB is not required unless stipulated by the organisers and only if engaged to photograph the event.!
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the only way that would work is if they applied for a CRB for you and only if they did that without using the FA .. bit of a non starter really wouldnt you say? :)
 
KIPAX said:
the only way that would work is if they applied for a CRB for you and only if they did that without using the FA .. bit of a non starter really wouldnt you say? :)
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Yep agreed. But with kids footie tournaments they usually do ask if you have one. We all know they will not carry out a check of their own as it will cost too much.
 
CaptainPenguin said:
Totally with Kipax on this I shoot from West Midlands League Premier division down to Birmingham AFA division 7 and the lower you go the less predictable the players control becomes and the harder it is to photograph
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unpredictable and 7 players going for one ball haha :)

To take it a step furthur.. the easiest football to photograph is premiership football.. hard not to get a good shot.
 
I am photographing in a couple of weeks children in a family farm park so I went to a local police station for a CRB and it cost me £10 not the same thing as a public park but for a small fee it will help me to get rid of the idiots, I hope this helps. John
 
grumpy69 said:
I am photographing in a couple of weeks children in a family farm park so I went to a local police station for a CRB and it cost me £10 not the same thing as a public park but for a small fee it will help me to get rid of the idiots, I hope this helps. John
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Can you explain this a little more please... becasue theres no way this could happen.. cerainly not the way you just explained it.. You cant just walk into a police station and pay 10 quid for a CRB .. no way!!
 
This CRB thing is a nightmare. My lad plays for various Basketball clubs, I like to take pics of him & his team whenever possible. Some agree some don't.

Not sure how I stand about posting pics of him & other players on the net.

One club he plays for will let me take pics during a game, however during training I am not even allowed to watch him or be in the same hall as him. Thats without a camera. He is my son & I can't be in the same hall as him whilst he trains unless I am CRB checked. How does that one work??

Still I am only his Dad at the end of the day.

Bit sad really!
 
KIPAX said:
Can you explain this a little more please... becasue theres no way this could happen.. cerainly not the way you just explained it.. You cant just walk into a police station and pay 10 quid for a CRB .. no way!!
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:plusone:
 
KIPAX said:
Can you explain this a little more please... becasue theres no way this could happen.. cerainly not the way you just explained it.. You cant just walk into a police station and pay 10 quid for a CRB .. no way!!
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I agree my brigade checks took 3-4 weeks and had to be sanctioned by a divisional officer at HQ.
 
KIPAX said:
Can you explain this a little more please... becasue theres no way this could happen.. cerainly not the way you just explained it.. You cant just walk into a police station and pay 10 quid for a CRB .. no way!!
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It's true, Skipton police station north yorkshire. I went in and asked about CRB checks and the officer sent me home with a form to fill in, I then took it back with two forms of I D then after about 6 weeks all should be ok, I had a letter yesterday telling me in a couple of weeks all will be in place. John
 
grumpy69 said:
It's true, Skipton police station north yorkshire. I went in and asked about CRB checks and the officer sent me home with a form to fill in, I then took it back with two forms of I D then after about 6 weeks all should be ok, I had a letter yesterday telling me in a couple of weeks all will be in place. John
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First off thats not quite the same story is it :)

Second.. Your not supposed to be able to get a CRB as an individual and as far as I know the law hasn't changed

Theres lots more... But your story still doesnt hold water and I think your drip feeding us info.. Because you can't get one like that.. Well no one else in the country can :(
 
KIPAX said:
First off thats not quite the same story is it :)

Second.. Your not supposed to be able to get a CRB as an individual and as far as I know the law hasn't changed

Theres lots more... But your story still doesnt hold water and I think your drip feeding us info.. Because you can't get one like that.. Well no one else in the country can :(
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I'm CRB checked pretty regularly as part of my job, so I have no worries there, I got asked last year shooting a game if I'd been CRB'd, but when I explained that I didn't require one, but was CRB'd anyway, they accepted it.

Sometimes I find that if you explain things to people they're more willing to accept it.
 
rmt1982 said:
I'm CRB checked pretty regularly as part of my job, so I have no worries there, I got asked last year shooting a game if I'd been CRB'd, but when I explained that I didn't require one, but was CRB'd anyway, they accepted it.

Sometimes I find that if you explain things to people they're more willing to accept it.
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True.. I have a CRB with blackburn rovers and just direct everyone to there welfare officer.. keeps them happy :)
 
KIPAX said:
First off thats not quite the same story is it :)

Second.. Your not supposed to be able to get a CRB as an individual and as far as I know the law hasn't changed

Theres lots more... But your story still doesnt hold water and I think your drip feeding us info.. Because you can't get one like that.. Well no one else in the country can :(
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I had no idea about CRB CHECKS thats why I went to the police station, I am only telling you what happend to me ???
 
grumpy69 said:
I had no idea about CRB CHECKS thats why I went to the police station, I am only telling you what happend to me ???
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methinks there may be a large que at skipton police station on monday morning because i know loads of people who would like a CRB :)
 
It is possibe to get something similar from your local police station, its not a CRB as you can only get them through an umbrella company and the police station isnt one (as far as I know). Cant remember what its called though.
 
snapzz said:
It is possibe to get something similar from your local police station, its not a CRB as you can only get them through an umbrella company and the police station isnt one (as far as I know). Cant remember what its called though.
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Thanks for info, I cannot remember what the form said it was but I explaned to the officer what I needed, for £10 at least I have something :lol:
 
grumpy69 said:
Thanks for info, I cannot remember what the form said it was but I explaned to the officer what I needed, for £10 at least I have something :lol:
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probably a weekend pass lol
 
Wow loads of response to this guys, cheers for taking time out to read my initial post.

So as it stands at the moment, I should be ok to go photographing next week?

I do think its a sad world we live in when you cant even take your camera to a local game of football without all this hassle and worry.
 
redmonkee said:
Wow loads of response to this guys, cheers for taking time out to read my initial post.

So as it stands at the moment, I should be ok to go photographing next week?

I do think its a sad world we live in when you cant even take your camera to a local game of football without all this hassle and worry.
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Remember, you are OK to take photos but you must do so in a manner not to cause a confrontation. Heed the advice given by Kipax and let those less informed (they are not buffoons by the way) know the legalities and why you are taking the said shots.
 
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