Shooting and Explosions in Paris

[andya700]

This is how geo political posturing and deals result in more terrorism for the rest of us.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-secret-stupid-saudi-us-deal-on-syria/5410130

In July 2011, the governments of Syria, Iran and Iraq signed an historic gas pipeline energy agreement which went largely unnoticed in the midst of the NATO-Saudi-Qatari war to remove Assad.

Shortly after signing with Iran and Iraq, on August 16, 2011, Bashar al-Assad’s Syrian Ministry of Oil announced the discovery of a gas well in the Area of Qarah in the Central Region of Syria near Homs. Gazprom, with Assad in power, would be a major investor or operator of the new gas fields in Syria.

Qatar, today the world’s largest exporter of LNG, largely to Asia, wants the same EU market that Iran and Syria eye. For that, they would build pipelines to the Mediterranean. Here is where getting rid of the pro-Iran Assad is essential. In 2009 Qatar approached Bashar al-Assad to propose construction of a gas pipeline from Qatar’s north Field through Syria on to Turkey and to the EU. Assad refused, citing Syria’s long friendly relations with Russia and Gazprom. That refusal combined with the Iran-Iraq-Syria gas pipeline agreement in 2011 ignited the full-scale Saudi and Qatari assault on Assad’s power, financing al Qaeda terrorists, recruits of Jihadist fanatics willing to kill Alawite and Shi’ite “infidels” for $100 a month and a Kalishnikov. The Washington neo-conservative warhawks in and around the Obama White House, along with their allies in the right-wing Netanyahu government, were cheering from the bleachers as Syria went up in flames after spring 2011.

 

[dejongj]

Python script and tripping up - any thing to do with the Ministry of silly walks?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8

Not quite, but I prefer your interpretation much much much better

 

[mex]

IS are not likely to just go away, we have diplomatic relations with Saudi so don't understand the diplomacy angle.

or from another angle, if the rest of the world told the Saudi's where to stick their oil until they stopped funding and arming (allegedly) IS perhaps something would be acheived in the fight against them much quicker.

 

[NeilA1975]

or from another angle, if the rest of the world told the Saudi's where to stick their oil until they stopped funding and arming (allegedly) IS perhaps something would be acheived in the fight against them much quicker.

Difficult since the rest of the world seems to be so reliant on the cheap oil currently being provided by the Saudis.

 

[andya700]

Difficult since the rest of the world seems to be so reliant on the cheap oil currently being provided by the Saudis.

Where are Saudi getting their cheap oil from? Is it their own oil they are selling, or oil purchased from ISIL at knockdown prices?

 

[dejongj]

Where are Saudi getting their cheap oil from? Is it their own oil they are selling, or oil purchased from ISIL at knockdown prices?

It's all happening down the chain by people who want to make a bit extra. The illegal is getting mixed in with the legit, a few steps later and nobody knows where it came from. It is more a case of people wanting to provide for their families opposite deliberate policy. And as there is big money involved I can't blame the individual plant managers doing that to be honest.

 

[viv1969]

Where are Saudi getting their cheap oil from? Is it their own oil they are selling, or oil purchased from ISIL at knockdown prices?

Saudi produce the most oil of any nation by far.
They have no need to purchase from a source such as ISIL.

 

[poacher]

Isis Oil.

Western trade sanctions block imports of fuel into Syria. Landis says that has made the Assad regime reliant on oil that's either smuggled into the country or pumped inside Syria itself — which means dealing with ISIS.

"The Assad government has to run its war machine, it has to run its cities, it needs power," Landis says, and it can get its power from ISIS "cheaply" because ISIS controls much of the country's oil fields.

Syria isn't the only unlikely customer, he says. "Turkey, the Kurds — everybody is buying cheap oil and smuggling it across their border. So the notion that you have clear allies working against ISIS, it's not the case."

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-09-16/isis-selling-cheap-oil-its-enemies-syrias-government-kurds



Inside Isis Inc: The journey of a barrel of oil

http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/

 

[andya700]

Saudi produce the most oil of any nation by far.
They have no need to purchase from a source such as ISIL.

It would be a very handy tool to use in order to keep the oil prices down - as they have been doing deliberately for the past few years.

 

[viv1969]

It would be a very handy tool to use in order to keep the oil prices down - as they have been doing deliberately for the past few years.

The sheer volume of oil they produce themselves already enables them to do that.

 

[poacher]

Saudi produce the most oil of any nation by far.
They have no need to purchase from a source such as ISIL.

Venezuela
Venezuela holds the world's largest proven oil reserves. The country's proven oil reserve as of January 2013 stood at 297.57 billion barrels accounting for about one fifth of the world's total proven oil reserve. The country produced 2.8million barrels of crude oil per day in 2012 with 149 active rigs.

Oil reserves in Venezuela are mainly concentrated in the Maracaibo Basin, a sedimentary basin in the north-western part of the country possessing more than 40 billion barrels of oil reserves, and the Orinoco Belt in central Venezuela which is estimated to contain 235 billion barrels of extra heavy crude oil.



Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia ranks second biggest holding 265.4 billion barrels of proven oil reserve. The Middle East country held the world's largest oil reserve until 2009, until it was surpassed by Venezuela.

http://www.hydrocarbons-technology.com/features/feature-countries-with-the-biggest-oil-reserves/

 

[viv1969]

Venezuela
Venezuela holds the world's largest proven oil reserves. The country's proven oil reserve as of January 2013 stood at 297.57 billion barrels accounting for about one fifth of the world's total proven oil reserve. The country produced 2.8million barrels of crude oil per day in 2012 with 149 active rigs.

Oil reserves in Venezuela are mainly concentrated in the Maracaibo Basin, a sedimentary basin in the north-western part of the country possessing more than 40 billion barrels of oil reserves, and the Orinoco Belt in central Venezuela which is estimated to contain 235 billion barrels of extra heavy crude oil.



Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia ranks second biggest holding 265.4 billion barrels of proven oil reserve. The Middle East country held the world's largest oil reserve until 2009, until it was surpassed by Venezuela.

http://www.hydrocarbons-technology.com/features/feature-countries-with-the-biggest-oil-reserves/

Fair enough.
They still don't need to purchase whatever ISIL oil there may or may not be.

Edit.... Reserves aside, it appears Saudi still far outproduces others.

 

[poacher]

Quote.
Edit.... Reserves aside, it appears Saudi still far outproduces others.


They need to protect their market share.

 

[viv1969]

They really don't.

 

[poacher]

Why does Saudi Arabia continue to pump so much oil

The official explanation — that the Saudis want to crush oil (NYSEARCA:USO) prices in order to protect their market share — just doesn’t make any sense.

And the implication that the Saudis want to crush U.S. shale production doesn’t make much sense, either.

http://www.wallstreetsectorselector...es-saudi-arabia-continue-to-pump-so-much-oil/

 

[simon ess]

Low energy prices makes life difficult for Russia.

Hmmm...

 

[LASTOLITE]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/isis-the-british-women-supporters-unveiled

For those who think the UK dwelling moderates are against what is happening....I suppose. draw your own conclusions........

 

[Llamaman]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/isis-the-british-women-supporters-unveiled
For those who think the UK dwelling moderates are against what is happening....I suppose. draw your own conclusions........

UK moderates ARE against what is happening.

The Muslim Council of Britain published an advert in the Telegraph and Mail Online condemning the attack. This view more accurately reflects what I hear from British Muslims I know.
http://www.mcb.org.uk/horrific-attacks-in-paris-muslim-council-of-britain-responds/

My conclusion is that you're seeing what you want to see, and ignoring what doesn't fit your worldview.

[Anyway, if they support ISIS, by definition they're not moderates, are they?]

 

[Llamaman]

 

[Deleted member 49549]

THE MUSLIM COUNCIL OF WALES MOURNS TERROR ATTACKS

• 14 November 2015

Saleem Kidwai, Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Wales, issues the following statement: –

“The most recent attacks in Paris are an affront to humanity. We mourn the deaths and offer our thoughts and prayers to the families who have lost their loved ones.

The deaths in Paris follow terror attacks in Beirut and Baghdad.

This attack is being claimed by the group calling themselves ‘Islamic State’ but there is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil.

Muslims globally, and here in Wales, reject the so called Islamic States’ political aspirations in Syria and Iraq, and we reject their attempt to justify their violence through religion.

The Muslim Council of Wales extends its hand of friendship to all those in France who are suffering. Paris, Beirut and Baghdad will be in our prayers.”


http://muslimcouncilwales.org.uk/statements/the-muslim-council-of-wales-mourns-terror-attacks/

 

[dejongj]

I think the statement from the councils is not good nor helpful. It goes right to the hard of the problem without supporting it or helping it. Telling these Muslims that they aren't Islamic is not resolving anything. More and more Muslims are joining that fight so they obviously think it is.

Brushing it aside won't help this, it requires proper engagement, in active and open dialog amongst that community. Not just being told that they aren't Islamic.

 

[Llamaman]

Ah, so Moderates are criticised for not publically speaking out, and when they do.
That's not going to make them feel victimised, is it?

 

[Phil V]

I think the statement from the councils is not good nor helpful. It goes right to the hard of the problem without supporting it or helping it. Telling these Muslims that they aren't Islamic is not resolving anything. More and more Muslims are joining that fight so they obviously think it is.

Brushing it aside won't help this, it requires proper engagement, in active and open dialog amongst that community. Not just being told that they aren't Islamic.

To be fair, I don't think those messages are aimed at ISIS, they're for the benefit of ordinary Muslims to try to create some distance in the minds of the public. Just look at where they were published.

 

[andya700]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/isis-the-british-women-supporters-unveiled

For those who think the UK dwelling moderates are against what is happening....I suppose. draw your own conclusions........

The headline is about UK women supporters of ISIL, so why did you decide that the programme was about "UK dwelling moderates"?

 

[dejongj]

Ah, so Moderates are criticised for not publically speaking out, and when they do.
That's not going to make them feel victimised, is it?

I'm just sick and tired of this religion of peace or they are not Islamic. Well they think they are, as do many around the world. Just dismissing it like that won't make it so.

To be fair, I don't think those messages are aimed at ISIS, they're for the benefit of ordinary Muslims to try to create some distance in the minds of the public. Just look at where they were published.

Fair point

 

[arclight]

I'm just sick and tired of this religion of peace or they are not Islamic. Well they think they are, as do many around the world. Just dismissing it like that won't make it so.

 

[Phil V]

I'm just sick and tired of this religion of peace or they are not Islamic. Well they think they are, as do many around the world. Just dismissing it like that won't make it so.



Fair point

But it is a religion of peace just like the others. Unfortunately, all religions also have an element of self preservation built in (a necessity) which can be twisted to justify horrific acts.

We don't know what 'communication ' if any exists between religious leaders and the terrorists (of any religion), it's a bit of a jaded view to assume that because we don't know the truth, the 'average' must secretly support the radical.

 

[Cobra]

My conclusion is that you're seeing what you want to see, and ignoring what doesn't fit your worldview.

Isn't that the way of the world though, from either stand point?

 

[dejongj]

But it is a religion of peace just like the others. Unfortunately, all religions also have an element of self preservation built in (a necessity) which can be twisted to justify horrific acts.

We don't know what 'communication ' if any exists between religious leaders and the terrorists (of any religion), it's a bit of a jaded view to assume that because we don't know the truth, the 'average' must secretly support the radical.

Well theoretically I would agree, however reality presents it differently. The killings are 100% done in name of religion, or at least presented like that. Ergo keep on repeating something that is clearly not reflective of reality won't change it.

 

[Llamaman]

I'm just sick and tired of this religion of peace or they are not Islamic. Well they think they are, as do many around the world. Just dismissing it like that won't make it so.

So should we have dispatched the Archbishop of Canterbury to deal with the LRA?
Every religion has it's extremist sects (plenty of Christian ones across the pond and Christianity is a 'religion of peace' too) - should we judge every religion by its extremists only?

If ISIS are turning you against Muslims, they've beaten you.

 

[Llamaman]

Isn't that the way of the world though, from either stand point?

Thinking there are only two polarised standpoints is most of the problem.

 

[andya700]

The killings are 100% done in name of religion, or at least presented like that.

The killings are carried out by a minority who are following a very extreme version of a religion
Many people only think about Sunni and Shia Muslims, and think that is about as complex as it gets. However, in both groups, there are many different groups - Deobandis, Wahhabis, Salafists, Twelthers (awaiting the arrival of the 12th Imam) etc.
All of these groups differ in their approach and views on the religion, some are more tolerant and some others mirror Islam in the 7th Century.
ISIL are followers of Wahhabism, which IMO is about as extreme as it gets, and which started off in Saudi Arabia, and which to this day is funded by and promoted by that country around the World.
Even Christianity has its extreme groups, here are examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidians

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...ristian-terrorist-groups-you-never-hear-about

 

[dejongj]

So should we have dispatched the Archbishop of Canterbury to deal with the LRA?
Every religion has it's extremist sects (plenty of Christian ones across the pond and Christianity is a 'religion of peace' too) - should we judge every religion by its extremists only?

If ISIS are turning you against Muslims, they've beaten you.

Let's get one thing straight, I am not against Muslims. But if I was they wouldn't beat me, they would have beat Islam by the logic that Muslims don't do this.

Anyway that isn't the point. My point is that the issue can't be ignored and brushed under the carpet by suggesting that they aren't Islamic. There is a serious issue where large parts of their community are joining an extremist section. It has to be dealt with.

 

[Phil V]

Well theoretically I would agree, however reality presents it differently. The killings are 100% done in name of religion, or at least presented like that. Ergo keep on repeating something that is clearly not reflective of reality won't change it.

So, and I'm serious, if I murder my wife and kids tomorrow 'in the name of the almighty Canon', does that make Canon culpable or am I just a homicidal nutcase?

I seriously am frustrated by the 'obvious truth' that they say they're doing this in the name of Allah, so we take that at face value and make all Muslims responsible.

It's ridiculous and doesn't hold up to any kind of intelligent scrutiny.

All religions (as I said) necessarily have violent instructions for self preservation, because that's the point of a religion, it has to be able to propagate. The fact that most 'Christians' instantly dismiss the god sanctioned violence in their text doesn't mean it's not as 'relevant' as for any other religion. AFAIC all religion should be banned internationally on that basis alone. They all potentially pose a threat to National Security.

 

[dejongj]

The killings are carried out by a minority who are following a very extreme version of a religion
Many people only think about Sunni and Shia Muslims, and think that is about as complex as it gets. However, in both groups, there are many different groups - Deobandis, Wahhabis, Salafists, Twelthers (awaiting the arrival of the 12th Imam) etc.
All of these groups differ in their approach and views on the religion, some are more tolerant and some others mirror Islam in the 7th Century.
ISIL are followers of Wahhabism, which IMO is about as extreme as it gets, and which started off in Saudi Arabia, and which to this day is funded by and promoted by that country around the World.
Even Christianity has its extreme groups, here are examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Branch_Davidians

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po...ristian-terrorist-groups-you-never-hear-about

So you agree saying it is a religion of peace and dismissing them as not being Islamic isn't helpful.

 

[dejongj]

So, and I'm serious, if I murder my wife and kids tomorrow 'in the name of the almighty Canon', does that make Canon culpable or am I just a homicidal nutcase?

I seriously am frustrated by the 'obvious truth' that they say they're doing this in the name of Allah, so we take that at face value and make all Muslims responsible.

It's ridiculous and doesn't hold up to any kind of intelligent scrutiny.

All religions (as I said) necessarily have violent instructions for self preservation, because that's the point of a religion, it has to be able to propagate. The fact that most 'Christians' instantly dismiss the god sanctioned violence in their text doesn't mean it's not as 'relevant' as for any other religion. AFAIC all religion should be banned internationally on that basis alone. They all potentially pose a threat to National Security.

You by yourself, just a nutcase. But if many of you start doing that and spreading around the world, and gaining many canon followers than yes Canon has a problem and must act to gets its name back.

 

[viv1969]

There are no "mainstream" religions of peace.

 

[andya700]

So you agree saying it is a religion of peace and dismissing them as not being Islamic isn't helpful.

I would really like you to point me to the place where I said that

 

[Deleted member 49549]

Let's get one thing straight, I am not against Muslims. But if I was they wouldn't beat me, they would have beat Islam by the logic that Muslims don't do this.

Anyway that isn't the point. My point is that the issue can't be ignored and brushed under the carpet by suggesting that they aren't Islamic. There is a serious issue where large parts of their community are joining an extremist section. It has to be dealt with.

I find it very strange that you think a public denunciation of these extremists is the issue being 'ignored and brushed under the carpet'. How can a public message be that? It can't.

 

[Cobra]

Thinking there are only two polarised standpoints is most of the problem.

You only have to read threads like this on TP to see that is largely the case
It doesn't matter what it is, Canon v Nikon. Raw v Jpeg. PC v ithingy's.
There are those fervently for, those fervently against, and the few in the middle that don't give a flying fig.