Shooting and Explosions in Paris

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andy700 said:
This article sums it up nicely for me and so do many of the comments at the end. I have to say that I totally agree with Corbyn on this one.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...a-in-syria-and-questions-french-a6736546.html

There isn't very much evidence of Turkey or Saudi fighting ISIL, but there is plenty of evidence of them funding/helping ISIL.
I should also point out that the ISIL suicided attacks in Turkey and Saudi have been aimed at Kurds (the peace rally) and Shias (various Shia mosques).
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Corbyn is an appeasing, throwback joke of a politician. The Saudis are under threat from IS and risk being outflanked if they don't put them down. After the attack:

The Islamic State terror group has claimed responsibility for a suicide bombing in a Saudi Arabian mosque that killed at least 15 people, including 12 members of a Saudi special forces unit, the latest in a spate of such attacks in the Gulf kingdom.

Isis said in a statement circulated on social media that it had targeted the men because they enabled the rule of Saudi Arabia’s monarchs and their western backers, and because they allegedly tortured Isis sympathisers.

The group pledged further attacks in the Arab world, and boasted of its ability to pierce Saudi security measures.

But this latest attack appeared directed at the Saudi authorities, who have arrested dozens of people suspected of belonging to Isis in the country. Saudi Arabia is also part of the US-led coalition against Isis in the region.

In a speech in the spring, the leader of Isis, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, issued a scathing denunciation of Saudi Arabia and its rulers, predicting the monarchy’s collapse and describing its war in Yemen as a “final spasm” before its death.
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Doesn't seem to be a very good plan to arrest and torture people you are helping does it?
 
Huge text! :eek: ;)
 
Some more

In 1916 Britain and France made secret plans to divide control of the Middle East after the first world war. How much is this agreement responsible for the region’s turmoil since then?


  • Why did they need to control the region?
    There were many reasons. The British wanted to protect the overland route to India, the jewel in the British Empire’s crown, and the French had interests in the Eastern Mediterranean. There was also oil in the region and the British Royal Navy which had switched its fuel from coal to oil before the war was keen to secure new supplies. The Catholic Church had been pushing for French control of the Syrian coast, home to many Maronite Catholics, and Britain was keen to put the French between them and the Russians to the north.

    So a northern slice, running from the Mediterranean to the Tigris river, went to France; a southern slice, from Palestine to Iraq, was bagged by Britain. None of this was made public.

  • Why the secrecy?
    It had to be secret because the British had already promised entirely different things to other people. Most notably, to theArabs. In order to inspire all the Arabs across the region to rise up against their Ottoman overlords, the British had promised them self-determination – control of their own territories after the war.
    • So when did all this become known?
      The Russians had been included in the Sykes-Picot negotiations – they were going to get Constantinople (modern-day Istanbul) after the war. However, the Russian Revolution intervened and the new Soviet government discovered a Sykes-Picot document in the files of the foreign ministry. They published it in 1917 to the considerable embarrassment of the British and French governments.
http://theday.co.uk/briefing/the-sykes-picot-agreement




Sykes-Picot Agreement

WWI Document Archive > Official Papers > Sykes-Picot Agreement

15 & 16 May, 1916:

1. Sir Edward Grey to Paul Cambon, 15 May 1916
I shall have the honour to reply fully in a further note to your Excellency's note of the 9th instant, relative to the creation of an Arab State, but I should meanwhile be grateful if your Excellency could assure me that in those regions which, under the conditions recorded in that communication, become entirely French, or in which French interests are recognised as predominant, any existing British concessions, rights of navigation or development, and the rights and privileges of any British religious, scholastic, or medical institutions will be maintained.

http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Sykes-Picot_Agreement
 
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Sounds like the ringleader might have met his demise via his suicide bomber friend.

Saint-Denis Paris attacks raid: Head of France’s elite anti-terrorist force says he saw bomber's severed head 'fly out the window' during intense battle

The head of France’s elite anti-terrorist force Raid has spoken of a battle against terrorists in the Paris suburb of Saint-Denis that was so bloody that at one point his officers saw a suicide bomber’s head “fly through the window and land on the other side of the street”.

Jean-Michel Fauvergue spoke after the shootout that led to the death of Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspected mastermind of the Paris attacks.

When the shootout ended, said Mr Fauvergue, floors had collapsed and reduced parts of the building to rubble. “Despite meticulous searches, we couldn’t establish whether there were two dead terrorists or three,” he said. Identification of Abaaoud required matching traces of skin to fingerprints taken by Belgian police.
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...orist-force-says-he-saw-bombers-a6740861.html
 
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As per post 575.
 
i blame lawrence of arabia ,he promised them to much ,must be true i saw the film ,read the book to though rather heavy going only got as far as the 6th pillar of wisdom
 
viv1969 said:
As per post 575.
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What? I've posted an article released 2 hours ago by the Independent detailing an interview with the head of the Paris anti terrorist squad, post 575 is a BBC report from this morning confirming the death of the terrorists.

Are you bored, pretending to be a mod or just adding to your post count for the hell of it?
 
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FujiLove said:
Where did I say anything about diplomacy with IS, or having chats with them? Honestly, I wish people would learn to read.

To be clear: I was suggesting a lot can be achieved through channels other than brute force. Diplomatic efforts can be focused on countries who have influence in the region, such as Russia, Turkey, Iran, Saudi etc. to have them put pressure on others. You use your diplomatic efforts in combination with other measures such as economic ones to cut off the supplies and finances of IS, but also to put pressure on countries who are directly or indirectly supporting IS. Look at how much effect the European sanctions have had on the Russian economy, for instance. They have put huge pressure on them. These are important and powerful tools when used correctly. It's just that they are not sexy and don't sell newspapers, or win votes from knuckleheads who think the only way to win a war is by bashing your head against people's faces.
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So it is diplomacy then? Cup of tea in the rac club in st James afterwards? Lol and you are suggesting you wish others learn to read?

Maybe as them to join you for a selfie as well :)
 
Dave1 said:
What? I've posted an article released 2 hours ago by the Independent detailing an interview with the head of the Paris anti terrorist squad, post 575 is a BBC report from this morning confirming the death of the terrorists.

Are you bored, pretending to be a mod or just adding to your post count for the hell of it?
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Whoa....don't take it out on me that you're repeating news already posted.

poacher said:
It seems they got the ringleader


Paris attacks ringleader dead - prosecutor
The suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, has been identified among Saint Denis raid dead, the Paris prosecutor has said.

His body was found riddled with bullets and shrapnel in the building in northern Paris on Wednesday.

The Belgian national, 27, was identified from his fingerprints.

[/QUOTE
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Dave1 said:
Sounds like the ringleader might have met his demise via his suicide bomber friend.





It was a womans head that flew through a window, she was the suicide bomber.


“That’s when we saw a human body, a woman’s head, fly through the window and land on the pavement,

“A suicide bomber had just blown themselves up, with such force that a supporting wall moved.” The suicide bomber was Abaaoud’s cousin, Hasna Aitboulahcen, and according to reports part of her spine landed on a police car.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...orist-force-says-he-saw-bombers-a6740861.html
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:woot:
 
viv1969 said:
The article is different.
The news is the same.
I don't believe I posted otherwise.
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You did, you claimed it was already posted in 575, it wasn't.

Your sense of self importance in thinking you have some element of control over what others post is quite delusional.
Perhaps you should remember that before trying to act as some sort of unofficial thread monitor in the future, this is a discussion forum and users are free to post what they like without getting your approval, you need to get over yourself.
 
give it a rest FFS, why the hell are people arguing over whether a story was already posted or not????

adults = grown ups:banghead:
 
Matt said:
give it a rest FFS, why the hell are people arguing over whether a story was already posted or not????

adults = grown ups:banghead:
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Apologies Matt.....I posted prior to seeing yours.

Feel free to remove.
 
the black fox said:
i blame lawrence of arabia ,he promised them to much ,must be true i saw the film ,read the book to though rather heavy going only got as far as the 6th pillar of wisdom
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7. He refused a knighthood.
King George V summoned Lawrence to Buckingham Palace on October 30, 1918. Lawrence hoped that the private audience was to discuss borders for an independent Arabia, but instead the king wished to bestow a knighthood on his 30-year-old subject.

Believing that the British government had betrayed the Arabs by reneging on a promise of independence, Lawrence quietly told the befuddled monarch that he was refusing the honor before turning and walking out of the palace.

http://www.history.com/news/10-things-you-may-not-know-about-lawrence-of-arabia
 
Surprised the human rights brigade have not piped up about the force used and the shoot to kill attitude of the French!
 
cambsno said:
Surprised the human rights brigade have not piped up about the force used and the shoot to kill attitude of the French!
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I have always assumed that "shoot to kill" when faced with armed criminals/terrorists is always the sensible approach - attempting to shoot them in the leg or maybe shoot the weapon out of their hands is something best saved for Ronald Reagan Westerns.
 
cambsno said:
Surprised the human rights brigade have not piped up about the force used and the shoot to kill attitude of the French!
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they will without doubt.
 
arclight said:
Makes no difference. All part of the ME problem. None of them can stop fighting. Any excuse will do.
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We need General Edmund Allenby back. Called the bull...... Allenby was the commander of Lawrence of arabia


On the night of September 30, 1918, as Allied forces led by General Edmund Allenby march steadily toward Damascus, Turkish authorities abandon the city.

Damascus, located on the Barada River in modern-day Syria, is one of the world’s oldest continuously inhabited cities. Ruled by the Ottoman Empire for centuries, it served as the base for Turkish and German troops to direct their operations against Allied forces at the Suez Canal during World War I. British troops in the region were commanded from mid-1917 by Allenby, who led his men in a successful campaign in Palestine that year, culminating in the capture of Jerusalem in December. Though Allenby lost some of his troops to the Western Front due to the German offensive there in the spring of 1918, the British had managed to recoup their strength in the region by the summer, due to an influx of reinforcements.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/turks-abandon-damascus-as-allies-approach/print
 
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ZoneV said:
Anyone watching BBC This Week?

Andrew Neil's opening piece was excellent.
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The whole programme was very good. Never ever thought I would ever agree with Galloway, but he spoke a lot of sense for a change.
Worked well to bring the blood pressure down after the shambles that was Question Time, where the politicians played out there usual point scoring game, with no clue how we should move forward to secure the world against the barbarians.
 
I was expecting a bombastic Galloway prattling on about the foreign policy and finger pointing, but he was quite reasonable. I was half wondering if he wanted to get back in bed with Labour when Portillo joked about him being leader.
 
Laudrup said:
I was expecting a bombastic Galloway prattling on about the foreign policy and finger pointing, but he was quite reasonable. I was half wondering if he wanted to get back in bed with Labour when Portillo joked about him being leader.
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Not seen it what did he say?
 
arclight said:
He summed them up nicely IS = Islamist Scumbags
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I thought that was the cheesiest bit of his rant. The rest was surprisingly good - the right mix of anger and eloquence. I thought it would be downhill from there, but even Galloway was on good form - made the Conservative minister's QT performance look even worse. I can't remember the last time I saw a Cabinet minister so hopelessly out of his/her depth - probably 2 Jags...
 
A warning has been given for this post
dejongj said:
So it is diplomacy then? Cup of tea in the rac club in st James afterwards? Lol and you are suggesting you wish others learn to read?

Maybe as them to join you for a selfie as well :)
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Are you incapable of understanding there's a difference between having diplomatic relationships with IS, and having diplomatic relationships with countries such as Saudi and Iran who have influence over groups in the region? It doesn't mean you have diplomatic relations with IS. I don't mean to be deliberately offensive, but surely that's a simple enough concept, that even a child could understand it.

[Mod Edit] No need for that

Yep, thought so.
 
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FujiLove said:
Are you incapable of understanding there's a difference between having diplomatic relationships with IS, and having diplomatic relationships with countries such as Saudi and Iran who have influence over groups in the region? It doesn't mean you have diplomatic relations with IS. I don't mean to be deliberately offensive, but surely that's a simple enough concept, that even a child could understand it.

[Mod Edit] No need for that

Yep, thought so.
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Ignore the trolls mate otherwise you'll get warnings and they walk away laughing, bless 'em. It happens a lot.

Just my 2p. (y)
 
ZoneV said:
Ignore the trolls mate otherwise you'll get warnings and they walk away laughing, bless 'em. It happens a lot.

Just my 2p. (y)
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Ahem, hello. Why am I a troll? I'm being very serious with the addition of merely some dramatic expression. Sorry but that is totally uncalled for.
 
Mod edit let me know when you decide to play nice and I'll let you back in the thread

Zonev edit: OK, who's "me"?
 
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Mod edit let me know when you decide to play nice and I'll let you back in the thread
 
IS are not likely to just go away, we have diplomatic relations with Saudi so don't understand the diplomacy angle.
 
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