Shooting and Explosions in Paris

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dejongj said:
I think you are right. Sitting around the table and having a cup of tea, biscuit etc is so much more civilised. Maybe we can even share the flying pig that will get us there?
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Yaaaaawn. Please reference where I mentioned chatting over tea. Thanks.
 
big soft moose said:
That means attacking islamic state there - it definitely doesnt mean killing shedloads of innocent civillians who just happen to be in the way .... as i said above that is the vietnam solution , and we all know how well that worked for the US
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Islamic State are being attacked already there, that is only going to get more frequent. The best thing for civilians is to flee Raqqa before more bombs fall and troops move in. It's nothing like Vietnam though.
 
FujiLove said:
Yaaaaawn. Please reference where I mentioned chatting over tea. Thanks.
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Dramatic expression dear friend. Dramatic expression.
 
Reuters reporting the main suspect dead.

BREAKING: Suspected architect of the #ParisAttacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, is dead: Washington Post
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http://live.reuters.com/Event/Paris_attacks_2/205989584

Further details

PARIS — French police commandos killed the suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks in a massive predawn raid Wednesday, two senior European intelligence officials said, after investigators followed leads that the fugitive militant was holed up north of the French capital and could be plotting another wave of violence.

More than 100 police and soldiers stormed an apartment building in the suburb of Saint-Denis during a seven-hour siege that left two dead, including the suspected overseer of the Paris bloodshed, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, a Belgian extremist who had once boasted he could slip easily between Europe and the Islamic State strongholds in Syria
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...a-11e5-934c-a369c80822c2_story.html?tid=sm_tw
 
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poacher said:
Mr Molins said the police teams in Saint Denis used 5,000 rounds of ammunition in Wednesday morning's raid. The main building targeted was now at risk of collapse, he said.
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Am I alone in picturing that scene from the matrix
 
poacher said:
From this morning

Mr Molins said the police teams in Saint Denis used 5,000 rounds of ammunition in Wednesday morning's raid. The main building targeted was now at risk of collapse, he said.
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What a damned state we'll be in when it happens in the UK.

5000 rounds fired - the police post shooting procedures will take about 3 centuries to complete by the time the bozos wade through this lot https://www.pfoa.co.uk/211/post-shooting-procedures
 
It seems they got the ringleader


Paris attacks ringleader dead - prosecutor
The suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, has been identified among Saint Denis raid dead, the Paris prosecutor has said.

His body was found riddled with bullets and shrapnel in the building in northern Paris on Wednesday.

The Belgian national, 27, was identified from his fingerprints.

He was high on French and Belgian wanted lists and yet managed to travel from Syria to the heart of Paris without ever leaving a trace.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34867615
 
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That's very good news, I'm amazed how quickly they found him and his chums. Great job.
 
Good result lets hope things will quieten down now
 
Oh no it won't. Many more where he came from. They are among us.
 
Glad in some ways that I don't live in a major city
 
Its amazing how these fanatics are so brainwashed in to doing what they do :(
 
cambsno said:
But you seem to think one option is diplomacy??? IS do not do diplomacy!
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Where did I say anything about diplomacy with IS, or having chats with them? Honestly, I wish people would learn to read.

To be clear: I was suggesting a lot can be achieved through channels other than brute force. Diplomatic efforts can be focused on countries who have influence in the region, such as Russia, Turkey, Iran, Saudi etc. to have them put pressure on others. You use your diplomatic efforts in combination with other measures such as economic ones to cut off the supplies and finances of IS, but also to put pressure on countries who are directly or indirectly supporting IS. Look at how much effect the European sanctions have had on the Russian economy, for instance. They have put huge pressure on them. These are important and powerful tools when used correctly. It's just that they are not sexy and don't sell newspapers, or win votes from knuckleheads who think the only way to win a war is by bashing your head against people's faces.
 
craigm said:
Its amazing how these fanatics are so brainwashed in to doing what they do :(
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It is so difficult to understand, because we tend to judge others by our own standards, or at least the standards which are perceived as "normal" within our own community.
The problem, is that the mostly young men are groomed/radicalised by older Imams (so called religious teachers), who firstly look after them and make then welcome to the mosque or madrasa, then instruct them in the more extreme texts of the Quran. I found the following article when I was looking for information on two radical Islamic groups - "Sharia4Belgium" and "Sharia4UK". Both groups are linked by one name - Anjem Choudhary. The article from 2012 mentions Molenbeek, the Brussels suburb which has been the centre of police raids in the last couple of days.

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/5275
 
FujiLove said:
Diplomatic efforts can be focused on countries who have influence in the region, such as Russia, Turkey, Iran, Saudi etc. to have them put pressure on others. You use your diplomatic efforts in combination with other measures such as economic ones to cut off the supplies and finances of IS, but also to put pressure on countries who are directly or indirectly supporting IS.
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I have highlighted Russia and Iran, because they are both clearly fighting against ISIL - Russia with air strikes and cruise missile attacks and Iran with ground troops, and Turkey and Saudi Arabia are complicit in aiding/funding ISIL.
Do you seriously think that the UN would place sanctions on Saudi Arabia?
 
cambsno said:
But you seem to think one option is diplomacy??? IS do not do diplomacy!
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Yes, how come there are some people who are not aware of that. Some phone in radio stations are polluted with the hand-wringing "We must talk to them brigade". Killing them is the only solution.
 
andy700 said:
I have highlighted Russia and Iran, because they are both clearly fighting against ISIL - Russia with air strikes and cruise missile attacks and Iran with ground troops, and Turkey and Saudi Arabia are complicit in aiding/funding ISIL.
Do you seriously think that the UN would place sanctions on Saudi Arabia?
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No, but I was pointing out lots of tools that WE have apart from our military ones. We could stop selling them weapons, servicing their fighters, supplying them with ordinance. We could stop flying there and prevent their royal family flying into the UK to shop for new Rolls Royces. We could freeze their finances in UK banks, withdraw their visas so they can't visit or buy UK property. We could ban any UK citizen from visiting Saudi. We have hundreds of options that would really hurt them and put huge, huge pressure on them.
We won't, obviously. But that's a political decision. Those tools are available, if we chose to use them. We won't choose to use them because their cash is more important to our politicians (for now) than defeating Islamic terrorists.
 
arclight said:
Yes, how come there are some people who are not aware of that. Some phone in radio stations are polluted with the hand-wringing "We must talk to them brigade". Killing them is the only solution.
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FFS. For the final time, in case anyone else is incapable of reading English: I did not suggest diplomacy would work with IS.
 
andy700 said:
I have highlighted Russia and Iran, because they are both clearly fighting against ISIL - Russia with air strikes and cruise missile attacks and Iran with ground troops, and Turkey and Saudi Arabia are complicit in aiding/funding ISIL.
Do you seriously think that the UN would place sanctions on Saudi Arabia?
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Saudi Arabia and Turkey are fighting IS too and have been victims of IS suicide bombs.
 
Laudrup said:
Saudi Arabia and Turkey are fighting IS too and have been victims of IS suicide bombs.
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Makes no difference. All part of the ME problem. None of them can stop fighting. Any excuse will do.
 
BBR said:
Genuine question. I Wonder why they used 5000 bullets?
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Its called spray and pray ;)

TBH I can't blame them in that situation, they must / may have thought that there was at least one suicide vest in there, which ultimately proved to be correct,
and were making the environment as safe as possible before entering.

Or were trying to bring the building down around their ears ;)
 
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Laudrup said:
Saudi Arabia and Turkey are fighting IS too and have been victims of IS suicide bombs.
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This article sums it up nicely for me and so do many of the comments at the end. I have to say that I totally agree with Corbyn on this one.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...a-in-syria-and-questions-french-a6736546.html

There isn't very much evidence of Turkey or Saudi fighting ISIL, but there is plenty of evidence of them funding/helping ISIL.
I should also point out that the ISIL suicided attacks in Turkey and Saudi have been aimed at Kurds (the peace rally) and Shias (various Shia mosques).
 
BBR said:
Genuine question. I Wonder why they used 5000 bullets? I thought professionals were supposed to 'aim...tap-tap' job done?
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their way was barred by a reinforced door which held out against the explosive charges placed against it. What had been planned as a lightning raid was about to turn into one of the fiercest gun battles on French soil in decades.

“We couldn’t take the risk of being spotted or that a neighbour sounded the alarm so we had to act quickly by securing apartments as we went along. Very quickly we ran into our first difficulty. We decided to use explosives to blow off the reinforced door and make the most of the shock effect. It didn’t work.

“The door held, and we lost our element of surprise.


We came under heavy fire from true professionals.

“They fired in bursts or one shot at a time, taking turns so that the gunfire never stopped. That allowed them to save on their munitions. They also threw grenades. They were incredibly driven.

“This first phase lasted 45 minutes. At around 4.45 three people came out onto the landing and gave themselves up. They were handcuffed and evacuated.”


“Very heavy, almost uninterrupted gunfire ensued. On the police side we fired almost 5,000 munitions.”

At 5am, after a lull in the shooting, the police sent in Diesel, a German Shepherd attack dog, which was shot dead by the jihadis.

As police went from house to house shouting “evacuate, evacuate!” a sniper positioned opposite the apartment saw a terrorist at a window and told him to raise his hands. He refused, and was shot by the sniper, but kept on firing a Kalashnikov.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...aaoud-hiding-in-French-capital-all-along.html
 
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andy700 said:
It wouldn't have anything to do with this would it?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6308.htm
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Maybe this as well


Why border lines drawn with a ruler in WW1 still rock the Middle East


A map marked with crude chinagraph-pencil in the second decade of the 20th Century shows the ambition - and folly - of the 100-year old British-French plan that helped create the modern-day Middle East.

Straight lines make uncomplicated borders. Most probably that was the reason why most of the lines that Mark Sykes, representing the British government, and Francois Georges-Picot, from the French government, agreed upon in 1916 were straight ones.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25299553


Since ISIS’s rise in Iraq and Syria, Western media, on both sides of the political spectrum,has engaged in a fervent argument over the reason for Iraq’s destabilization. Many of these conversations have been about short-term (2003 U.S. invasion) or long-term (digging deep into Islamic history) causes. But what if the answers lies somewhere in the medium-term?

It is well known that ISIS seeks to establish a caliphate in the greater Levant. As al-Jazeera has explained, that system of rule ended 100 years ago with the fall of the Ottoman Empire and the implementation of the Sykes-Picot Agreement.

http://muftah.org/shadow-sykes-picot-rise-isis/#.Vk4M7nbhDIU
 
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