Shooting and Explosions in Paris

[Laudrup]

It's statements like that which make you impossible to take seriously.

Your reasoning is utterly illogical. It's like someone saying Australia isn't a peaceful, stable and prosperous democracy because they got mugged and harassed there. Anyone can dredge up a crime on google, but being a stable democracy doesn't mean crime free.

 

[seriousrikk]

If the terrorists plan and attack the west and their interests from Syria and Iraq then they will be attacked in Syria and Iraq. I don't know how much more onside we can get Syrians when Merkel said to every one of them to come to Europe unchecked and we will provide them with everything. It was a foolish gamble that isn't paying off and putting all of our security at risk.

The problem with this logic is really simple.

If they get attacked in Iraq and Syria civillians will die. Lots of them. These are innocent people who never asked for their country to be invaded by Daesh, never asked for their national treasures to be destroyed by an organised military force, never asked for their families to be torn apart by the extremists. Are you OK with this?

 

[viv1969]

It wasn't "dredged up"... It's in the news.
I'm sure you could find it if you tried.
Nor is it random....but directly related to the Paris attacks.
Knee jerk reaction from dim witted meatheads who can't think for themselves.

 

[Laudrup]

The problem with this logic is really simple.

If they get attacked in Iraq and Syria civillians will die. Lots of them. These are innocent people who never asked for their country to be invaded by Daesh, never asked for their national treasures to be destroyed by an organised military force, never asked for their families to be torn apart by the extremists. Are you OK with this?

Lots of civilians die if the Islamic State remain and we will come under attack even more if they are given appeasement. Our security should be our number one priority and that means attacking them there.

 

[OldCarlos]

You might struggle to convince the Methil couple who were attacked as they were closing their takeaway on Saturday night that that's the case.
Iirc they've been there approx 25 years, yet were attacked by a group of knuckle dragging youths shouting anti Muslim abuse because of the Paris attacks.
Yes....sounds very peaceful and stable for them.

May have been because of the Paris attacks, maybe not & maybe because they are just `knuckle draggers` anyway. Incidents like this happen both ways too.

 

[Phil V]

Your reasoning is utterly illogical. It's like someone saying Australia isn't a peaceful, stable and prosperous democracy because they got mugged and harassed there. Anyone can dredge up a crime on google, but being a stable democracy doesn't mean crime free.

Describing Australia as a stable democracy is borderline I'll-informed. It's certainly not somewhere I'd recommend a brown skinned friend go to get some respect.

 

[seriousrikk]

Lots of civilians die if the Islamic State remain and we will come under attack even more if they are given appeasement. Our security should be our number one priority and that means attacking them there.

So better that innocent people die by our bombs than the Daesh? I don't get that logic.

I can't help but think anyone who thinks attacking the Daesh on their turf hasn't really considered how well such actions have gone in the past. It's not possible to carry out such actions without a major ground offensive because lets face it, air attacks alone will be just enough to escalate things without actually resolving anything.

 

[viv1969]

May have been because of the Paris attacks, maybe not & maybe because they are just `knuckle draggers` anyway. Incidents like this happen both ways too.

Indeed.
But the abuse clearly indicated the link in this case.

 

[Laudrup]

Describing Australia as a stable democracy is borderline I'll-informed. It's certainly not somewhere I'd recommend a brown skinned friend go to get some respect.

You don't think Australia is a stable democracy? You'll have to explain that bizarre viewpoint.

 

[kendo1]

Describing Australia as a stable democracy is borderline I'll-informed. It's certainly not somewhere I'd recommend a brown skinned friend go to get some respect.

I lived there in the 60's. If I remember correctly. they had a thing about letting Asians (well, not letting) into the country.
It was an almost 100% white country. The 'Abos' were treated as second class 'citizens'.

 

[OldCarlos]

Indeed.
But the abuse clearly indicated the link in this case.

Maybe the blame lies with the instigators then? (isis)

 

[Phil V]

You don't think Australia is a stable democracy? You'll have to explain that bizarre viewpoint.

Well mostly I've been watching the actions of their recently deposed prime minister. Hardly a shining example of a democratic leader.

 

[Laudrup]

So better that innocent people die by our bombs than the Daesh? I don't get that logic.

I can't help but think anyone who thinks attacking the Daesh on their turf hasn't really considered how well such actions have gone in the past. It's not possible to carry out such actions without a major ground offensive because lets face it, air attacks alone will be just enough to escalate things without actually resolving anything.

You say you care about civilians dying, yet leave their fate in the hands of one of the most merciless and medieval regimes in living memory? If Islamic State plan or attack Russia and France and the US and the UK and say they will again then attacking them is the only option. There are rebels on the ground who hate IS as much as us we can help with air support and providing them with weapons. Appeasing IS won't be an option, especially with what happened to Russia and France.

 

[Phil V]

Maybe the blame lies with the instigators then? (isis)

It takes a particular kind of f***wittery to blame a group of terrorists thousands of miles away for the actions of a bunch of ill-informed knuckle dragging thugs 'response'.

They're just arseholes plain and simple. If they weren't blaming it on Paris, it'd be a different excuse to justify their prejudices.

 

[OldCarlos]

I lived there in the 60's. If I remember correctly. they had a thing about letting Asians (well, not letting) into the country.
It was an almost 100% white country. The 'Abos' were treated as second class 'citizens'.

Times have moved on somewhat since then, Ken.
Our daughter lived in Sydney & is now in Melbourne. One of our G/daughters is engaged to a lad of Chinese origin. There are MANY nationalities these days & ironically the whites are starting to have similar concerns as many here in the UK.
The Lebanese seem to have a rough ride in certain quarters.

 

[OldCarlos]

It takes a particular kind of f***wittery to blame a group of terrorists thousands of miles away for the actions of a bunch of ill-informed knuckle dragging thugs 'response'.

They're just arseholes plain and simple. If they weren't blaming it on Paris, it'd be a different excuse to justify their prejudices.

Hey, I'm just replying to Ruth.

I said the same as you in post #485.

 

[boyfalldown]

I don't know how much more onside we can get Syrians when Merkel said to every one of them to come to Europe unchecked and we will provide them with everything. It was a foolish gamble that isn't paying off and putting all of our security at risk.

Weren't the terrorists from Friday, in large majority, EU nationals. Sadly.The one Syrian passport found is widely reported as fake. How not offering help to refugees would have avoided that is difficult to see.

Da'esh hate the refugees, you behave exactly as they want. How does it feel to be manipulated very easily into behaving exactly as they want?

 

[viv1969]

Maybe the blame lies with the instigators then? (isis)

They didn't instigate the attack.
The youths did.
They chose to decide that for them, every Muslim is ISIL and therefore fair game.

 

[kendo1]

Times have moved on somewhat since then, Ken.
Our daughter lived in Sydney & is now in Melbourne. One of our G/daughters is engaged to a lad of Chinese origin. There are MANY nationalities these days & ironically the whites are starting to have similar concerns as many here in the UK.
The Lebanese seem to have a rough ride in certain quarters.

Yep. I have relations and friends living there now. I was just pointing out what it was like back then.
It wasn't that long after the war and there was a deep mistrust of Japanese in particular.
We had to wear hats to school and women wore gloves pretty much everywhere. Oz was stuck in 1950's USA with similar racial views.

Things have moved on and there are thriving immigrant communities, but there are some racial problems much like the UK.

 

[OldCarlos]

????????????

You posted;

.....Nor is it random....but directly related to the Paris attacks.
Knee jerk reaction from dim witted meatheads who can't think for themselves.

In reply, I posted ;

May have been because of the Paris attacks, maybe not & maybe because they are just `knuckle draggers` anyway. Incidents like this happen both ways too.

Indeed.
But the abuse clearly indicated the link in this case.

What have I done!?!?

 

[OldCarlos]

We had to wear hats to school

Ha, they still do. Slip, slap, slop aswell.

 

[viv1969]

Your post......

Maybe the blame lies with the instigators then? (isis)

....indicates that possibly we should blame ISIL for youths in Scotland deciding that the people they set upon at the weekend were fair game.

That's how it reads.
If I'm mistaken, then I apologise.

 

[the black fox]

The problem with this logic is really simple.

If they get attacked in Iraq and Syria civillians will die. Lots of them. These are innocent people who never asked for their country to be invaded by Daesh, never asked for their national treasures to be destroyed by an organised military force, never asked for their families to be torn apart by the extremists. Are you OK with this?

hmmmmm i wonder how my aunt felt when the germans dropped the bombs that demolished her house she sure as hell never asked the nazis to bomb her,but i do believe my my uncle had a smile on his face over hamburg and dresden .you o.k with that .

 

[kendo1]

Ha, they still do. Slip, slap, slop aswell.

I wore a Crocodile Dundee hat as part of the school uniform at Toowoomba South Boys.

 

[OldCarlos]

Your post......



....indicates that possibly we should blame ISIL for youths in Scotland deciding that the people they set upon at the weekend were fair game.

That's how it reads.
If I'm mistaken, then I apologise.

Ha, I posted that in reply to your `
.....Nor is it random....but directly related to the Paris attacks.
Knee jerk reaction from dim witted meatheads who can't think for themselves`.

I think we've got at crossed purposes here.

Best to leave it too, otherwise The Hammer will be down on, what's actually a fairly civil thread.........for a change.

 

[OldCarlos]

I wore a Crocodile Dundee hat as part of the school uniform at Toowoomba South Boys.

Our youngest G/child (several years ago)

 

[Laudrup]

Weren't the terrorists from Friday, in large majority, EU nationals. Sadly.The one Syrian passport found is widely reported as fake. How not offering help to refugees would have avoided that is difficult to see.

Da'esh hate the refugees, you behave exactly as they want. How does it feel to be manipulated very easily into behaving exactly as they want?

We were warned by IS themselves they would use this unchecked immigration to smuggle fighters and attack us and that looks to be what they have done. How you think it is me who has been manipulated I don't know, it's more like IS telling you 'I told you so'. They have used this confusion to their massive advantage and we have no idea who is here in the EU and why thanks to people like Merkel. As for the refugees IS would conscript them or rule over them in their supposed caliphate. They can't have a state without territory and people to rule.

 

[viv1969]

Ha, I posted that in reply to your `
.....Nor is it random....but directly related to the Paris attacks.
Knee jerk reaction from dim witted meatheads who can't think for themselves`.

I think we've got at crossed purposes here.

Best to leave it too, otherwise The Hammer will be down on, what's actually a fairly civil thread.........for a change.

I can roll with that

 

[Deleted member 49549]

We were warned by IS themselves they would use this unchecked immigration to smuggle fighters and attack us and that looks to be what they have done. How you think it is me who has been manipulated I don't know, it's more like IS telling you 'I told you so'. They have used this confusion to their massive advantage and we have no idea who is here in the EU and why thanks to people like Merkel. As for the refugees IS would conscript them or rule over them in their supposed caliphate. They can't have a state without territory and people to rule.

Personally, I don't think it has helped ISIS by Europe choosing to help refugees. If we chose not to help, there would still be large numbers coming, and ISIS would still be able to get in. We cannot police our borders well against a determined enemy, whether we put up barricades or not, the borders are just too large for that.

 

[dejongj]

hmmmmm i wonder how my aunt felt when the germans dropped the bombs that demolished her house she sure as hell never asked the nazis to bomb her,but i do believe my my uncle had a smile on his face over hamburg and dresden .you o.k with that .

Spot on. My direct family was occupied, their residence was turned into a local hq. They were so pleased the allied forces came and rescued them, naturally any casualties as part of that action were very regrettable but a thousand times better than the alternative.

 

[andya700]

Lets not forget the US Embassy bombing in Beirut in 1983 - group responsible? Iranian Jihadists!

Iran and the US were conducting a "proxy war"in Lebanon at the time, because the US was openly supporting Iraq in the war with Iran. The US sank/crippled 8 Iranian ships in 1988, as well as oil platforms on Khargh Island. The USS Vincennes shot down a civilian Iranian airbus over the Straits of Hormuz with the loss of over 200 lives. The captain of the Vincennes was decorated for that action.

 

[The Greek]

Ambulance full of explosives found outside stadium hours before Holland v Germany game was due to kick off. Can't imagine how many lives could have been lost had this gone off.

 

[boyfalldown]

We were warned by IS themselves they would use this unchecked immigration to smuggle fighters and attack us and that looks to be what they have done. How you think it is me who has been manipulated I don't know, it's more like IS telling you 'I told you so'. They have used this confusion to their massive advantage and we have no idea who is here in the EU and why thanks to people like Merkel. As for the refugees IS would conscript them or rule over them in their supposed caliphate. They can't have a state without territory and people to rule.

Were the terrorists who committed Friday evening's horrors all refugees or did they pretend to be to gain entry? Or were they,for the most part, already here?

That despite knowing this you believe, as you do that somehow it's the flood of people escaping Da'esh that's responsible shows exactly how you've been manipulated

 

[Phil V]

Ambulance full of explosives found outside stadium hours before Holland v Germany game was due to kick off. Can't imagine how many lives could have been lost had this gone off.

Apparently not!

This was misreported.

 

[Ricardodaforce]

Apparently not!

This was misreported.

I did wonder about that. The link posted was from the Mirror (a news source?) whilst nothing was appearing on CNN.com nor BBC.com. Mind you, looking at who posted it, it may well have been an archived Mirror story from WWII.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Were the terrorists who committed Friday evening's horrors all refugees or did they pretend to be to gain entry? Or were they,for the most part, already here?

That despite knowing this you believe, as you do that somehow it's the flood of people escaping Da'esh that's responsible shows exactly how you've been manipulated

To be fair though, that's not what he actually said.
I also believe that there may be radicals who have taken advantage of the situation, and crossed into countries along with genuine refugees. Thats not the same as saying that the genuine refugees are responsible or somehow to blame.

 

[Bobsyeruncle]

Why are they now being called Da'esh? Where did that come from?
Still trying to get to grips with isis, isil, iso etc.
Not that it really matters in the grand scheme of things.

 

[boyfalldown]

Why are they now being called Da'esh? Where did that come from?
Still trying to get to grips with isis, isil, iso etc.
Not that it really matters in the grand scheme of things.

Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the things. But here's an explanation

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-daesh-mean-isis-threatens-6841468

I like it annoys and belittles them. It's a small thing I know. The comma is mine. It doesn't matter in the slightest but I think it's correct Arabic.

 

[boyfalldown]

To be fair though, that's not what he actually said.
I also believe that there may be radicals who have taken advantage of the situation, and crossed into countries along with genuine refugees. Thats not the same as saying that the genuine refugees are responsible or somehow to blame.

Quiet possibly.

It's the lack of compassion that I find strange. It does read like if we let no refugees in there wouldn't be an issue.exactly what Da'esh want and not true

 

[viv1969]

Why are they now being called Da'esh? Where did that come from?
Still trying to get to grips with isis, isil, iso etc.
Not that it really matters in the grand scheme of things.

ISIL themselves loathe being referred to by westerners as Da'esh....it's an Arabic acronym.
The French have used it for a while, and now it seems a bit trendy to be adopting its use.