Shooting and Explosions in Paris

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big soft moose said:
so someone came in pretending to be a refugee ... this makes the genuine refugees to blame how exactly ? - If a terrorist flies in on an airliner are the other passengers to blame for his future actions ?
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Who said I was blaming genuine refugees, you said

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its not necessary for their cells to enter europe via some rust bucket death trap accross the med, or by the arduous journey through the balkans - they can simply fly in on false documents,


any genuine refugee or anyone who needs genuine help is welcome as far as I`m concerned.
 
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cambsno said:
Thats mainly because its close to home, and a threat to us. Suicide bombings are a daily occurrence in some countries, so not news. Much the same as our local and national press... they don't mention any drug dealers unless massive as its not news, but get caught shagging a sheep in a field and it makes the papers because it is different. Stuff that happens closer to home or could happen at home is much more newsworthy to people
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I disagree.
The killings in Australia weren't remotely close to home, and yet there was a media frenzy.

Nigeria is closer than New York.
As is Beirut.
And yet....
 
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Overexposed said:
Surely the issue here is to close European borders for entry so that refugees have to be able to prove who they are and suitable background checks can be made before they are admitted. I'm sure that the humanitarians will throw their hands up in horror but when sovereign security is being threatened there can be no half measures.
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Great in theory. Not even remotely possible to handle and check out a tiny proportion of the numbers involved. There is no system, manpower and facilities to scratch the surface of that problem.
Greece alone has had 500,000 arrive in the last 10 months. Some days close on 10,000 arrived.
Only 20% are from Syria. Vast numbers have no passports or ID of any sort.

I don't think the day is too far when some very drastic action will be needed to stop the flow, but it will have to be stopped or Europe will be overwhelmed and there will be more lives lost than if firm action had initially been taken to exercise control.
 
Corbyn should never ever lead this Country. He won't implement shoot to kill policy on Terrorists.
Guy is a total idiot.
This is a man that when we have another attack that his family or friends might get hurt in it he still would not change his mind. A stubborn fool. Defo need the shoot to kill. What the hell is wrong with people.....
Extreme force and mindless determination is the only cure for IS. They care about nothing. you can not reason or negotiate with these people.
 
In regards stopping refugees coming in... we overlook the fact that most of the perpetrators of this attack appear to have been French or Belgian citizen, and there is still only one of them that appears to have come in via Greece.
We can shut the borders to as many people as we want but thats not going to stop people with EU citizenship from carrying out attacks like we seem to have seen in Paris and we certainly saw in London in 2005.

As for Corbyn's comments on shoot to kill, I can only assume he's referring to trying to avoid another Charles De Menezes situation on the streets where a "potential" suspect is being trailed, if the police/ special forces were in a live situation like we had on the streets of Paris on Friday night then you can be damned sure they would be shooting to take out the attackers no matter what the PM of the day's thoughts were...
 
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big soft moose said:
as i said further up no country in history has ever managed impermeable borders - even if we were able to close our borders completely (which we can't without totally buggering up the economy and removing freedom of travel from british citizens) , how are you going to stop terrorists making landings on deserted beaches with speedboats/ribs or below the radar flights with light aircraft or helicopters.
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big soft moose said:
as i said further up no country in history has ever managed impermeable borders - even if we were able to close our borders completely (which we can't without totally buggering up the economy and removing freedom of travel from british citizens) , how are you going to stop terrorists making landings on deserted beaches with speedboats/ribs or below the radar flights with light aircraft or helicopters.
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Don't disagree with you about having impenetrable borders but when you start making it that difficult it changes the goal posts and remember we are an island and its one thing to have a car full of rifles and explosives in Belgium and driving into France but another totally using A rib or a helicopter to gain access to these shores
 
viv1969 said:
I disagree.
The killings in Australia weren't remotely close to home, and yet there was a media frenzy.

Nigeria is closer than New York.
As is Beirut.
And yet....
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Because it's simple, most people who buy papers don't give a flying f*** about Nigeria and Beirut

Also more countries are more important to us than others, and we are free to prefer one over the other
 
viv1969 said:
I disagree.
The killings in Australia weren't remotely close to home, and yet there was a media frenzy.

Nigeria is closer than New York.
As is Beirut.
And yet....
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'Close to home' does not necessarily mean in the literal sense.
 
arclight said:
Great in theory. Not even remotely possible to handle and check out a tiny proportion of the numbers involved. There is no system, manpower and facilities to scratch the surface of that problem.
Greece alone has had 500,000 arrive in the last 10 months. Some days close on 10,000 arrived.
Only 20% are from Syria. Vast numbers have no passports or ID of any sort.

I don't think the day is too far when some very drastic action will be needed to stop the flow, but it will have to be stopped or Europe will be overwhelmed and there will be more lives lost than if firm action had initially been taken to exercise control.
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Agreed its draconian and virtually unworkable but we can't just throw our doors open without knowing who we are letting in.
It'll be interesting to see what happens to Sangette now!
 
andyscott said:
Because it's simple, most people who buy papers don't give a flying f*** about Nigeria and Beirut

Also more countries are more important to us than others, and we are free to prefer one over the other
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True.
Hypocrisy is cheap and readily available.
 
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andyscott said:
Doesn't have to be hypocritical, just people's choice in who they prefer.
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It is hypocritical to beat one's chest and wail "these people must be stopped from killing", when one really means " they must be stopped from killing white folk ".

People are indeed free to do so, but they shouldn't expect to be taken in any way seriously or be seen as credible.
 
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Its something more complex going on here. Almost all the attacks we have seen in the west have been committed by young men born here. Not refugees or immigrants. Its not just young Muslim men. We have had our fair share of young white western men slaughtering innocent people also.
 
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viv1969 said:
It is hypocritical to beat one's chest and wail "these people must be stopped from killing", when one really means " they must be stopped from killing white folk ".

People are indeed free to do so, but they shouldn't expect to be taken in any way seriously or be seen as credible.
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Nah killing folk we care about, there was outrage about Mumbai

I think people also cared about the tsunami.

Do people care about Africa? Probably not, does Africa care about Europe, probably not
 
MartynK said:
This won't happen. The British government started disarming its own people, the same ones they sent to war, in 1920 because they no longer trusted them. The right to keep and bear arms will not be restored, but there's no need to be concerned. The state will look after you, with its enhanced snooping and surveillance powers, which surely can't be denied after something like this...
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The general population doesn't need (more) guns.
What we do need is a proper response to any report of a terrorist incident.
The French, whatever faults they may have, have a heavily armed and extremely well trained organisation that responds immediately and with overwhelming force, and which has been trained to go forwards, military style.
Here in the UK, although we do have a small number of military response units, we have to rely on our armed police - very few in number, very slow in attendance, and who have only been trained to contain and bore the occasional armed criminal to death, not to engage them. And, AFAIK, the rapid response military units can only join it at the specific request of the police, which means that they may as well not exist.
 
andyscott said:
Nah killing folk we care about, there was outrage about Mumbai

I think people also cared about the tsunami.

Do people care about Africa? Probably not, does Africa care about Europe, probably not
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I feel every bit as bad for anyone affected by the previously mentioned slaughters in Africa as I do about anyone in France or, say, Australia.

And you cannot even compare terrorism to environmental disasters.
 
andyscott said:
Nah killing folk we care about, there was outrage about Mumbai

I think people also cared about the tsunami.

Do people care about Africa? Probably not, does Africa care about Europe, probably not
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What is it about Africa that makes you apathetic? Is it the distance or the fact that the majority of inhabitants aren't white?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
What is it about Africa that makes you apathetic? Is it the distance or the fact that the majority of inhabitants aren't white?
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it is not my own view ;)

colour has nothing to do with it in my eyes, but then again, you all assume I am white ;)
 
Garry Edwards said:
who have only been trained to contain and bore the occasional armed criminal to death, not to engage them. And, AFAIK, the rapid response military units can only join it at the specific request of the police, which means that they may as well not exist.
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Not true, look at the most popular, Killing of Lee Rigby, female copper, door open shoots bloke ;)
 
andyscott said:
Not true, look at the most popular, Killing of Lee Rigby, female copper, door open shoots bloke ;)
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Not true, she jammed her gun, someone else shot him - and he wasn't armed with an AK74
 
viv1969 said:
I feel every bit as bad for anyone affected by the previously mentioned slaughters in Africa as I do about anyone in France or, say, Australia.

And you cannot even compare terrorism to environmental disasters.
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It's worse to lie that you care rather than admitting you don't. Care about all the terrorist bombs in Baghdad too? Even ones you hadn't even heard of?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
What is it about Africa that makes you apathetic? Is it the distance or the fact that the majority of inhabitants aren't white?
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I don't think its colour, i think its more association. Places I have been to, or have friends for example. I like America and have been there a number of times, including Charleston, Sth Carolina (wife lived there for 6 months before we met too) so the shootings there touched more of a nerve than anything else outside the UK. Have friends in Oz and Cyprus so will always be closer to those than Africa. Distance can also play a part, the closer to the UK the more it seems real I guess. You read about shootings in the paper and generally they mean very little, but remember one in a village we lived in so was less apathetic there.
 
Laudrup said:
It's worse to lie that you care rather than admitting you don't. Care about all the terrorist bombs in Baghdad too? Even ones you hadn't even heard of?
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You can believe what you like.
Facts are clearly of no interest to you.
I've spent enough time in the middle east... including Baghdad... to be fully confident in my opinions.
Being called a liar by the like of you won't alter that.
 
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Kemble3 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34830749


Corbyn's idea of dealing with a terrorist threat on the streets of the UK.

Is he right or wrong?
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I saw him getting interviewed... and although it's not on that clip I'm pretty sure that when asked if he'd deploy soldiers on the streets to confront terrorists he said that instead of soldiers he'd use policing in the community. Does this mean he'd use community policemen to confront terrorists on the streets of Britain?

I was in the kitchen at the time but I'm pretty sure I heard words to that effect and I couldn't believe the interviewer let him get away with saying that.

I'd also like to have seen him pressed on what political solution ISIS would agree to.

The bloke is IMO in a fantasy world and someone should give him a good hard slap, possibly with a fish produced from inside a jacket.

How can anyone vote for this clown.
 
I must admit that I do like France's seemingly decisive response. On the night was a pretty good mobilisation, the air strikes against deash shortly after that. And they are right on them again today with further air strikes.

I wouldn't be surprised if their cyber teams are hitting them online as well. Deash well and truly p***ed them off now. I hope others will join in and forceably get rid of the f***ers where ever they are including at home soil.
 
dejongj said:
I must admit that I do like France's seemingly decisive response. On the night was a pretty good mobilisation, the air strikes against deash shortly after that. And they are right on them again today with further air strikes.

I wouldn't be surprised if their cyber teams are hitting them online as well. Deash well and truly p***ed them off now. I hope others will join in and forceably get rid of the f***ers where ever they are including at home soil.
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To be fair, a heavy military response has always been required to destroy as many IS as possible and to reclaim their occupied land. Just a shame events such as Friday is needed in which to intensify efforts.
Just wondering when the rest of the world will grow a pair including us. Ironically, where's Tony Blair and George Bush when you need them?!
 
NeilA1975 said:
To be fair, a heavy military response has always been required to destroy as many IS as possible and to reclaim their occupied land. Just a shame events such as Friday is needed in which to intensify efforts.
Just wondering when the rest of the world will grow a pair including us. Ironically, where's Tony Blair and George Bush when you need them?!
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Actually our PM did request support for this several years ago ;)
 
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