Shiny floor - RESULTS !

[Hodders]

OK,

I spent a couple of hours messing around this morning with the 2mm clear acrylic sheet I bought.

I am - to put it mildly - v.pleased with the results.

The reflective floor - especially when shooting from lower down, allows the floor to be blown to white, gives nice shadows and allows much better contrast as the bg lights are not working so hard.

OK - pic 1 of the general setup in the village hall:

Lights are set up as follows:

Key is on 3/8 power giving f8 on the subject.

BG lights are aimed at the back middle of the hilite with standard reflectors on. They are on 3/8 power as well. They key light is 600ws, the bg lights are 300ws so we have a 2:1 ratio.

The lighting was set up with the bg lights off and then the bg lights were ramped up slowly in order to blow the floor/rear. This gives much better results than measuring the rear and then giving the subject 1stop less. Mainly because the rear hilite gets to act as a giant reflector for the key light.

The join from the train to the BG is seamless. To achieve this I simply put 3 ikea kiddies drinking cups under the rear of the last sheet of acrylic (left, right and middle) this then angled the acrylic up a tad and reflected the hilite perfectly.

The next shot is my favourite test subject shot with the above settings. At least I am smiling. This is out of the camera no pp at all, just a hint of sharpen on the jpeg export.

The join in the floor between the two sheets of acrylic is the only fault with this. I did try overlapping the front sheet on top of the sheet behind it, but this required more bg light to get rid of the join. I would rather keep the image contrast and have a tiny bit of pp to do.

The only pp is on the shadow, plus a tiny bit of contrast boost and is pretty quick and easy.



I am really happy with this. It has very little of the wrapping issues I had before as the bg power is so much less all from a setup that can be put in the back of a Mondeo estate.

The final result is here - TA DA: Notice how the teddy's white arm still has good separation.

 

[Astraeus]

That does look terrific, a really good effect on the floor. It's frustrating seeing these accomplished studio setups as it's something I'd love to get into if I had the space/time/inclination/subjects (I could go on...).

 

[Peter_Hartland]

Do like the effect

 

[Jchaplin]

Well done that man!! I've had a few more tries but not got anywhere as near as that. Do you have any pics showing the cups arrangement?? How many stops higher is the background do you think??

 

[Hodders]

I would say that the BG was about 1 stop higher than the subject, but by reversing the order I metered (basically getting the subject right and then upping the BG until it just blows out - the blinkies are great for this) I got much better results.

The floor looked like this:

And I did have some help.....

 

[sbowler579]

Very nicely done, wouldnt know where to start myslef.

 

[tfboy]

Great stuff. Been seriously thinking of doing the hall hire + temp setup for an afternoon's shoot, and your setup is perfect

Where did you get the acrylic from? And do you think it's prone to scratching? Presumably the sheets are small enough to be easily movable so you can take them home when packing up after a day's shoot?

 

[Hodders]

Great stuff. Been seriously thinking of doing the hall hire + temp setup for an afternoon's shoot, and your setup is perfect

Where did you get the acrylic from? And do you think it's prone to scratching? Presumably the sheets are small enough to be easily movable so you can take them home when packing up after a day's shoot?

The sheets were from Wickes and are 1800mm x 900mm and cost about £25 each they will fit neatly into the back of my 05 Mondeo estate. Seem fairly scratch resistant. Although the protective plastic is only labelled on one side so if you take that side off first you get a whole second side for 'free'.

 

[J4MIE_P]

Results look good But it still looks like there is some light spill wrapping around you :s But that might just be my monitor

But images are still looking great and love the idea of the cups to raise the join

 

[Hodders]

You are right, but unless I move further away from the BG there will always be some wrap as in essence my finely honed aristocratic bone structure is reflecting the BG light along a direct path. It is just like lighting me from behind and left - almost rim lighting my face if you like.

The main aim is to reduce this to an acceptable level within the constraints of a reasonable space. If I come to far forwards then the BG becomes smaller and harder to keep the subject 'within frame' - I guess it is all a balance between practicality and results.

 

[PsiFox]

Where did you get the sheets?

oops missed the above

 

[ki_user]

Nice shots, must be nice to have some space to play with. not that there was anything wrong with your edit, I just fancied a go.

 

[Jchaplin]

Thanks for the pic of the cups - makes sense now. I think you've done really well there. Do you think the floor is lit more by light from the hilite or from the keylight??

 

[Hodders]

Definitely the hilite. That is the biggest difference of using the reflective floor. If you think about the lines from the lens the light is bouncing of the floor and continuing onto the lens.

You can see the difference on the first image in the thread just look at the pool of light reflecting. The rest of the floor is very 'grey'.

 

[Hodders]

Nice shots, must be nice to have some space to play with. not that there was anything wrong with your edit, I just fancied a go.

Out of curiosity what did you change and are you on a calibrated monitor ?

 

[tiler65]

Ben I like it but I still feel you can turn the hilite down a touch and increase the main light or move it closer.

 

[Johnny Thunder]

You've worked at this Ben, and you have made big improvements.
I would be well happy with results like that mate.

 

[Hodders]

Ben I like it but I still feel you can turn the hilite down a touch and increase the main light or move it closer.

Like this ? (About 1/2 a stop brighter then the meter was suggesting for the subject)

 

[tiler65]

Much better on the subject. No shadows, now just turn the hilite down and you have cracked it.

 

[tiler65]

By the way do your socks have days of the week on them?

 

[Hodders]

By the way do your socks have days of the week on them?

No but they do have left and right !

 

[Derek_W]

I think you made a good choice with the 2mm acrylic. I like the effect. The images are improving with each change to the kit.

Now, if you could just get rid of that ugly model you insist on using and get someone pretty.......

 

[Hodders]

Much better on the subject. No shadows, now just turn the hilite down and you have cracked it.

I think that there is a good chance that the subject was a bit further back on the last example and probably had lost about 1/2 stop. I'm trying to limit this by moving the key back and using a bit more power. That way the subject will be in a more 'linear' part of the 1/x^2 falloff.

 

[Jchaplin]

Looking good to me - well done Ben, lots of effort but the rewards are here to be seen!. By the way - I bought a slightly larger bit of the same 2mm clear stuff from B&Q yesterday - they do it in 1800mm x 1200mm so it's a little wider than the bit I bought from wickes - that may help you with your joins as they may then be in different places and easier to hide. T'was a tight squeeze to get it in the car though!!

 

[Hodders]

Looking good to me - well done Ben, lots of effort but the rewards are here to be seen!. By the way - I bought a slightly larger bit of the same 2mm clear stuff from B&Q yesterday - they do it in 1800mm x 1200mm so it's a little wider than the bit I bought from wickes - that may help you with your joins as they may then be in different places and easier to hide. T'was a tight squeeze to get it in the car though!!

I phoned a huge B&Q warehouse in Swindon and the chap on the other end simply said that he didn't know if they had any - end of. Wickes is loads closer so I ended up there. The join is the only fly in the ointment here however it is the price you pay for portability. Tile board of the type EdinburghGary uses would join invisibly but is v.heavy and the tongues/grooves would end up scuffed v.quickly.

1800x900 is not a bad size as it is flexible in terms of fitting together. I'm also not certain that 1200 wide would fit in my car !

My garage -> studio project is coming on so I am really excited about it all at the moment.

 

[Jchaplin]

I'm going to try lifting the end of the train up as you did with the cups tomorrow - will be interesting to see what effect that has. I look forward to seeing some posts/pictures as your studio progresses!

 

[ki_user]

Out of curiosity what did you change and are you on a calibrated monitor ?

I cut out the bottom bit as another layer, shifted it up a bit to try and match the reflection, then I darkened it a bit because it looked a bit light. I then blended the edge with the eraser tool, merged the layers and finally used levels to set the black and white.

Why did you ask if I'm calibrated, does it look that bad

 

[Hodders]

I cut out the bottom bit as another layer, shifted it up a bit to try and match the reflection, then I darkened it a bit because it looked a bit light. I then blended the edge with the eraser tool, merged the layers and finally used levels to set the black and white.

Why did you ask if I'm calibrated, does it look that bad

No not at all ! It's just that I was wondering how my edits looked, my TFT is calibrated but I was wondering how it looked on other peoples systems.

 

[Hodders]

I think you made a good choice with the 2mm acrylic. I like the effect. The images are improving with each change to the kit.

Now, if you could just get rid of that ugly model you insist on using and get someone pretty.......

Do you know what - I agree completely. I am getting bored silly of pressing the self timer and running round.

I'll see what I can come up with.

 

[ki_user]

No not at all ! It's just that I was wondering how my edits looked, my TFT is calibrated but I was wondering how it looked on other peoples systems.

Looks tidy enough on my un-calibrated

 

[Shutterbox]

Nice work.

Would the cup arrangement holding up the end have to be re-designed if there was more activity as in kids running round maybe?

What size is the Hilite?

 

[Derek_W]

Now you've gone to the trouble of setting everything up it's counter productive to have to set the timer and then run into position for the shot. Your time would be best used trying different lighting positions. But then you already know that! At least your current model knows what to do.

The cheap Chinese radio controlled remotes are very good value if case you've never considered them. Better than the infra red remotes which only work from behind some cameras with limited distance.

I think the use of the village hall has been a good idea. There's space to set everything up and you're not tripping over the kit walking round. It should give you a better idea how to set up the studio in the garage too. What has surprised me about all this is how much space you do need to set up a wee studio. I doubt I'd get it comfortably into any room in my house unless I emptied the room completely and my garage is too low as well as too cold with no power nearby.

They say necessity is the mother of invention and there's so much to be learned from others. Thanks for taking the time and documenting your studio.

 

[Garry Edwards]

You're making progress - but you're making life very difficult by being the model as well as the photographer...
What you should be doing is to get the lighting acceptable, and you can't do that unless you can see exactly what effect it's having. By lighting, I mean the lighting on the subject. You should be trying to find a lighting arrangement that actually suits your subject, which is impossible when you are the subject.That's what you need to be working on, not the background, which is a completely separate subject but also and (unwanted) light source in its own right.

 

[Hodders]

You're making progress - but you're making life very difficult by being the model as well as the photographer...
What you should be doing is to get the lighting acceptable, and you can't do that unless you can see exactly what effect it's having. By lighting, I mean the lighting on the subject. You should be trying to find a lighting arrangement that actually suits your subject, which is impossible when you are the subject.That's what you need to be working on, not the background, which is a completely separate subject but also and (unwanted) light source in its own right.

Garry, I agree 100% with what you are saying here. However, at the moment I am trying to get a 'competent' set up which will give 'acceptable' results for a subject in a variety of positions. My kids will be around for my next effort and that will be a lot easier.

If you have any comments regarding what I have been showing in this thread please feel free to let rip. I have never been scared of constructive criticism/honesty.

I'm trying to separate the subject and the BG lighting as far as possible (extra hard when you have all the light from a blown BG flying around). In an ideal world with the key light off the subject would be a pitch black silhouette. I would then be free to add whatever lighting I wanted to the subject. However, in reality there will always be a certain amount of wrap/spill.

I have a (small) queue of people waiting for the seamless white stuff for their kids and I want to get this at an acceptable level before starting to explore other areas. Partly because I am having fun, also because I stand to actually make some money from it.

I am itching to use the grey BG I have as that will open up a whole new area where lighting subtlety will be a whole new game, it is certainly true that the first sign of improvement is when you realise how little you know....

In all fairness, the one thing I can't blame is the lighting equipment. It has been fab - thanks.

 

[Hodders]

Now you've gone to the trouble of setting everything up it's counter productive to have to set the timer and then run into position for the shot. Your time would be best used trying different lighting positions. But then you already know that! At least your current model knows what to do.

I agree, I have all sorts of ideas I would like to try with lighting the subject. But for various reasons I want to get the white BG stuff working first.

The cheap Chinese radio controlled remotes are very good value if case you've never considered them. Better than the infra red remotes which only work from behind some cameras with limited distance.

I have thought of getting one of these, but in the near future I should be able to put the setups I have been working on to proper use with people other than me...

I think the use of the village hall has been a good idea. There's space to set everything up and you're not tripping over the kit walking round. It should give you a better idea how to set up the studio in the garage too. What has surprised me about all this is how much space you do need to set up a wee studio. I doubt I'd get it comfortably into any room in my house unless I emptied the room completely and my garage is too low as well as too cold with no power nearby.

The extra space has been fab. It has made controlling the light so much easier. My garage is about 3.5m wide and about 15m long I plan on blacking out the walls and ceiling at the 'business end' in an attempt to control the light spill. I am lucky in that the ceiling is a pitched roof about 3.5m tall again just where I need it down where the subject will be.

They say necessity is the mother of invention and there's so much to be learned from others. Thanks for taking the time and documenting your studio.

You are really welcome. I have learnt loads from people like Zack Arias, EdinburghGary etc so if I can help even a tiny bit then great. The 'innovation' I am most pleased about is lifting the floor up by the hilite - it just works so well and avoids introducing yet more light.

 

[Hodders]

Nice work.

Would the cup arrangement holding up the end have to be re-designed if there was more activity as in kids running round maybe?

What size is the Hilite?

The hilite is 2.4m x 2m. The raised floor is a potential trip hazard, but could easily be 'fenced off' and it only really applies to the last 12 inches of the floor.

If a kiddy is that close then they are also too close to the hilite and the EP300 strobes !

 

[..MD..]

This is a interesting read and your progress is good to watch...

I use 1 sheet of acrylic myself 6' x 4' 2mm


MD

 

[Hodders]

Looks tidy enough on my un-calibrated

Your idea for getting rid of the joins is a nice one. I'll certainly add it to the list of potential ideas - thanks.

 

[Shutterbox]

Your idea for getting rid of the joins is a nice one. I'll certainly add it to the list of potential ideas - thanks.

Did I read somewhere that you had ordered samples of other materials for the floor?

There have been a few threads on the `floor` subject now and I can`t remmebr whether anyone ever came up with a shiny bright white material that would do the job on it`s own (without the need for the vinyl).

There was even mention of one that could be rolled for transporting if I remember correctly, can`t seem to find it now.

 

[tfboy]

I bit the bullet and just went and bought some of those acrylic panels in my local Wickes. Took me ages to find them, but now have them back home. I'm a bit concerned with how easily they might scratch, but as you suggested, the written "Wickes" protective sheet is only on one side £22.99 each.

What are you using as the white material? Is it just vinyl?

Eager to have a play myself now. Just missing a hilite :bonk: