spxxxx
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I don't think any of us posting on here will be getting the call - or a christmas card
Shenanigans at the SWPP
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I don't think any of us posting on here will be getting the call - or a christmas card
spxxxx
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b****r ..... even after my free debacle of membership and them backing down - I'm still listed as a past member .....
How do I get rid of that ?
http://www.swpp.co.uk/members/Revill9727.htm
How do I get rid of that ?
http://www.swpp.co.uk/members/Revill9727.htm
They won't remove it because it causes too much confusion with customers, apparently. They've also been known to use the excuse that it affects the SEO of the site. Well, what's source to the goose is source for the gander, and I will not be removing my 'qualifications' once my membership lapses. After all, it would only lead to confusion....
Simon
XLSINWP
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Same here.
spxxxx
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What - even though I have it in email from them (yes I keep everything) that my details will be removed ?
swanseamale47
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I don't think any of us posting on here will be getting the call - or a christmas card
Oh I'm sure they are in the post... along with my cheque
What - even though I have it in email from them (yes I keep everything) that my details will be removed ?
Ahhh, but you asked for them to remove you from their database. So they've probably deleted you from their CRM system. However, they've left you on their website, 'cos they probably don't think that the database that drives the site actually constitutes a database....
Simon
Dave Routledge
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Hi Simon
"There's none so blind as those that will not see"
"Was blind, but now I see."
God bless
Dave
"There's none so blind as those that will not see"
"Was blind, but now I see."
God bless
Dave
If you read back through this ever lengthening thread Simon there are links to the requests you can make under Data Protection and how to go about it, you basically have to say that it is damaging to your business and you find it upsetting.
HTH
M
MarkyP
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If anyone succeeds, please do let us know.
I will be firing off my letter in due course as it is most definately damaging my business.
I have a documented case of a B&G NOT wanting to use me because of my association with the SWPP and the Bowers affair. This wasn't a price issue, nor a quality issue, they put in writing it was because they didn't want to use any photographer who was a member of the SWPP.
spxxxx
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I received my letter today accepting my resignation and promising to remove me from records.
I'm more than happy to give them a chance to to that in a reasonable time frame and I know they are bound to be busy with the convention so I will write back to ask them to make sure it is done by the end of the financial year in March 2010.
I'm more than happy to give them a chance to to that in a reasonable time frame and I know they are bound to be busy with the convention so I will write back to ask them to make sure it is done by the end of the financial year in March 2010.
M
MarkyP
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I received my letter today accepting my resignation and promising to remove me from records.
I'm more than happy to give them a chance to to that in a reasonable time frame and I know they are bound to be busy with the convention so I will write back to ask them to make sure it is done by the end of the financial year in March 2010.
Interesting t see of they remove you completely or put you in the "Past Members, please contact the SWPP for further details on this photographer" section.
I know what my money is on
Tyke Tiler
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In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
One eyed man or one eyed General?
Dave Routledge
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A MODERN PARABLE OF GRACE: The Story of The Little Flower of New York
Fiorello LaGuardia was mayor of New York City during the worst days of the Great Depression and all of World War II. He was called by adoring New Yorkers *'The Little Flower,' because he was only five foot four and always wore a carnation in his lapel. He was a colourful character who used to ride the New York City fire trucks, raid speakeasies with the police department, take entire orphanages to baseball games, and whenever the New York newspapers were on strike, he would go on the radio and read the Sunday funnies to the kids.
One bitterly cold night in January 1935, the mayor turned up at a night court that served the poorest ward of the city. LaGuardia dismissed the judge for the evening and took over the bench himself.*
Within a few minutes, a tattered old woman was brought before him, charged with stealing a loaf of bread. She told LaGuardia that her daughter's husband had deserted her, her daughter was sick, and her two grandchildren were starving. But the shopkeeper, from whom the bread was stolen, refused to drop the charges.
"It's a real bad neighbourhood, your Honour." the man told the mayor. "She's got to be punished to teach other people around here a lesson."
LaGuardia sighed. He turned to the woman and said
"I've got to punish you. The law makes no exceptions - ten dollars or ten days in jail."
But even as he pronounced sentence, the mayor was already reaching into his pocket. He extracted a ten-dollar bill and tossed it into his famous sombrero saying:
"Here is the ten dollar fine which I now remit; and furthermore I am going to fine everyone in this courtroom fifty cents for living in a town where a person has to steal bread so that her grandchildren can eat. Mr. Bailiff, collect the fines and give them to the defendant."
The following day the New York City newspapers reported that $47.50 was turned over to a bewildered old lady who had stolen a loaf of bread to feed her starving grandchildren, fifty cents of that amount being contributed by the red-faced grocery store owner, while some seventy petty criminals, people with traffic violations, and New York City policemen, each of whom had just paid fifty cents for the privilege of doing so, gave the mayor a standing ovation.
God bless
Dave
Fiorello LaGuardia was mayor of New York City during the worst days of the Great Depression and all of World War II. He was called by adoring New Yorkers *'The Little Flower,' because he was only five foot four and always wore a carnation in his lapel. He was a colourful character who used to ride the New York City fire trucks, raid speakeasies with the police department, take entire orphanages to baseball games, and whenever the New York newspapers were on strike, he would go on the radio and read the Sunday funnies to the kids.
One bitterly cold night in January 1935, the mayor turned up at a night court that served the poorest ward of the city. LaGuardia dismissed the judge for the evening and took over the bench himself.*
Within a few minutes, a tattered old woman was brought before him, charged with stealing a loaf of bread. She told LaGuardia that her daughter's husband had deserted her, her daughter was sick, and her two grandchildren were starving. But the shopkeeper, from whom the bread was stolen, refused to drop the charges.
"It's a real bad neighbourhood, your Honour." the man told the mayor. "She's got to be punished to teach other people around here a lesson."
LaGuardia sighed. He turned to the woman and said
"I've got to punish you. The law makes no exceptions - ten dollars or ten days in jail."
But even as he pronounced sentence, the mayor was already reaching into his pocket. He extracted a ten-dollar bill and tossed it into his famous sombrero saying:
"Here is the ten dollar fine which I now remit; and furthermore I am going to fine everyone in this courtroom fifty cents for living in a town where a person has to steal bread so that her grandchildren can eat. Mr. Bailiff, collect the fines and give them to the defendant."
The following day the New York City newspapers reported that $47.50 was turned over to a bewildered old lady who had stolen a loaf of bread to feed her starving grandchildren, fifty cents of that amount being contributed by the red-faced grocery store owner, while some seventy petty criminals, people with traffic violations, and New York City policemen, each of whom had just paid fifty cents for the privilege of doing so, gave the mayor a standing ovation.
God bless
Dave
Tyke Tiler
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Definitely the General...
M
MarkyP
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Nice story Dave....... but WTF has it got to do with this topic thread?
I am but a simple man, I do not claim to be educated, nor do I claim to be a philosopher, I am a mere photographer so please do explain the point of your post as I for one, am ever so lost.
mercedes
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A simple google will bring up the details http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiorello_H._La_Guardia
I suspect Dave R is trying so suggest some compassion.
There are many who feel, like myself, that this posting has evolved into a bitter sniping match by a few (count yourselves) who have been slighted either by the SWPP directly or on the forums and because they didn't get their own way, seem determined to bring down this society.
I know I'm not the only one who is getting really bored seeing this topic bumped the top of the list by another of the gang of four. Most just want to immerse themselves in everything TP photography.
Get over it guys and if the SWPP is as bad as the snipers are saying they won't survive anyway. If they do, it'll be because they've decided to improve things. Their business, their choice.
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First rule of Wikipedia, dig deeper.
http://www.snopes.com/glurge/laguardia.asp
As I've said before - you don't get to decide what's posted here. If and when the mods decide it's run its course they'll do the necessary. There are thousands of other threads to immerse yourself in, so it shouldn't be too hard for you to avoid this sole item.
So stop throwing around perjorative terms like 'Gang of Four'.
treeman
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No, the reason why companies like this (SWPP) will survive, is because people like you want to stifle any debate/discussion that would potentially forewarn any would be new members.
It's called "looking out for your fellow men"
M
MarkyP
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So if you are not happy with free speech then why bother even reading this thread?
Do you have an alternative motive for it NOT being viewed?
You have a choice, if you don't want to participate in this discussion, then simply don't. It is a free country, you can make your own adult decisions, simply click on something else and go read something else.
Easy really isn't it.
Oh and for the record, let me clarify my position, just so there are no misunderstandings.
I run a busy studio with what some would call a decent turnover. I have NEVER needed the SWPP for my business to reach the levels it is at. To my knowledge the SWPP has NEVER generated any new business, nor has it been a part of my marketing strategy. I am not advising anyone to leave or to join, I am not advising anyone to go join any other organisation - in a nut shell I only have ONE motive and this was the reason for my resignation from the SWPP.
Everyone should be given a decent chance.
Not everyone is in my position, and there are those just coming into the industry who have the right to make some informed decisions as to whether or not the SWPP is the right choice. My sole aim on this thread is to share my experiences, as I will should I become an active member in any other trade organisation.
The SWPP appear to have a policy of not allowing information that is detrimental to be allowed to get out into the public domain, hence the removing of threads they don't like on their Forum, refusing to answer Members questions or answering in riddles. I fully understand that that is their choice, they are a private business, but I will not simply sit idly by and allow people to make a decision based on the lack of full information.
I resigned from the SWPP, I wasn't booted or expelled. I have no gripe with them, I am simply stating facts that can be proved in any Court of Law.
So I am sorry Mercedes, whilst this thread may not to be to your liking, all I can suggest is simply don't take part - no one is making you.
M
MarkyP
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That Gang of Four statement made me chuckle. I have never met Mike Weeks in person, and to be honest, I am even surprised he is even talking to me after a childish petty comment I made on the SWPP Forum which I did apologise for at the time but I am sure has not been forgotton.
Mike and I share a passion - photography but I wouldn't exactly say we were "best buddies" lol
By the way, Merry Xmas Mike
Dave Routledge
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Nice story Dave....... but WTF has it got to do with this topic thread?
I am but a simple man, I do not claim to be educated, nor do I claim to be a philosopher, I am a mere photographer so please do explain the point of your post as I for one, am ever so lost.
Hi Mark
You do yourself an injustice my friend; no one is a "mere" anything, and besides being a photographer, I do belive you could teach most people a thing or two about running a successful business (I am being serious BTW)
I will PM you an explanatio of the story
You say that your purpose for being here is to share your experiences; could you share some of the positive experiences you had whilst a member?
God bless
Dave
dseered
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Why on earth would we want to rubbish the SWPP? Unlike some we have better things to do with our time and if you find it that boring don't bother reading it.
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Which bit of 'on topic and constructive' are you struggling with?
M
MarkyP
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OK We've discussed this in the staff room and have decided to reopen the thread.
As previously requested, please can we keep it on topic and constructive. Thanks
Thank you to all the Admins.
OK, so in the interests of fairness, back to David's question regarding the "benefits" of joining the SWPP.
For those just entering the industry, the SWPP, Talk Photography and all other Forums / Trade organisations do have some benefits.
1. Information.
When first starting out, whether as a photographer, or in the business of photography, most people have questions, and lots of them. The Forums act as a library of information that people can refer to when searching out a particular topic. As part of the yearly Membership fee, SWPP Members have access to their Forum. The Forum is frequented by seasoned pros and those just starting on the path, and many pros do share their wealth of knowledge. Sometimes this is free at point of source, sometimes it involves going on a course that costs money.
Unfortuantely, as members knowledge and skills increase, I have found that they very quickly outgrow the SWPP Forum. Whilst a fantastic resource in the early days, many find that they have to search elsewhere for answers to their questions. There seems to be a constant cycle of new people joining the SWPP all looking for answers and a constant stream of people leaving as they have outgrown the SWPP.
From my own persoanl perspective, the Talk Photography Forum contains substantially more information, on more topics and subjects and is free at the point of source. On this point alone I would recommend the TP Forum over the SWPP Forum - it wins hands down.
This though is NOT a comparision between the two.
The SWPP set up, whilst good for those setting up in the early days is full of problems. These have been discussed previously in great depth and I feel that many people are taken in by clever marketing that is designed NOT to improve their photography skills, but to extract money from them. Remember that theSWPP is a business out to make money. I have no issues with this, in any way, form or manner, but the SWPP should make this crystal clear to all potential members as many view the SWPP as a Recognised Trade Organisation.
2. Networking
During my time at the SWPP, I met some fantastic people who have become life long friends. In addition I have met contacts that have benefited my business. Is this a benefit of the SWPP? No. I would still have met these people through other mediums and I would have still created the business contacts.
The SWPP is right for some, but not right for others and as long as potential members do their homework and know EXACTLY what they are getting into, then it can be a good way to help your start in the industry.
The SWPP does though have some major problems due to it being a business. Its aim is to make money, and this creates it's own unique problems where Members can be seen as nothing more than a cash cow. The SWPP have the right to run their business as they see fit, but for me, when they become dictorial, deliberately obtuse, argumentative, offensive plus all the other things being discussed on this and many many other threads, then people MUST look at whether it is a wise decision to give them the £99.00
The SWPP with some simple openess, transparancy, honesty and most importantly, integrity, can become something much more than it is now. That decision has to be taken by the business owners but with things the way they are right now, I for one would NOT join, and this is after 20 years in the industry.
Strangely enough, no. I think that the moderation of this thread has been done fairly and even handedly. There have been a series of allegation made by several former members of the SWPP which have highlighted what they perceive as short-commings in the way in which that company treats its customers.
There are many other threads on here about companies that provide abysmal service, and this thread is no different.
Given the many thousands of members on this site, which must by the laws of averages include many SWPP customers, it is strange that so few people are jumping to defend the company and its services.
As the moderators have said earlier in the thread, the management of the SWPP are more than welcome to join in the thread and to counter any of the allegations made here. I put it to you that they do not have the nerve so to do, for they cannot exercise any form of censorship over the contents of this thread.
The SWPP likes to promote itself as being a leading organisation in the photographic industry. All it is really is a small pond in which a handful of people with over-over inflated egos believe they are big fish! The management have their Lap Dogs that Lord it up over the rest of their customers.
It is clear from the SWPP's handling of any form of debate from within their customer base that they have complete disdain for everyone who has the audacity to question the way in which they run the society. If I had as many dissatisfied customers as they appear to have, I would make every effort to attempt to resolve the problems.
As you are probably aware, over 12 months ago the SWPP formed a series of sub-societies, aimed at broadening the appeal of the 'society'. This included the forming of the SINWP for nature & wildlife photographers. Some 8 months after this was formed, I posted a series of questions on the SWPP forum asking if anything was going to happen with these groups, since they didn't even have their own forum areas, let alone any content behind the title page of the website.
After asking on the forum several times, I eventually was lucky enough to receive a reply from Phil Jones, who posted the comment "These things take time." Just how long does it take to add a new forum to the site??
The SWPP tried to encourage their customers to join these extra 'societies' and to pay another £99 per year, should you wish to be listed under more than two categories. Since there is no difference between each of the sub societies, perhaps someone could explain how this is not "passing off" and therefore illegal?
Simon
*modified to remove short-hand reference.
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:thumbsdown::bang:
we are keeping it open for right to reply, that is, if the management of SWPP decide to tackle any of the issues in this thread. If its locked, they cant. Dont you have some accounting to do?
coldpenguin
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I think this is a very good point. I believe that the last statistics were that there were almost 6000 /active/ members on this forum. I would think there would be more than 5 members of the SWPP on here.
The thread has been quite obvious, on the most frequented sub-section of the forum, and yet it would appear to me that there are few SWPP members who have been members of TP for any time, that are responding with anything positive about the SWPP.
That kind of speaks volumes on its own.
I think the Mod's previous comment is also correct. If the thread is locked, there is no way that the SWPP management can respond. This would leave a purely one-sided thread available to anyone who searches, and surely does not allow the freedom of speech that is being talked about as being one of the major failings of the SWPP forums.
If it becomes a slanging match, or more off-topic answers are just entered for the sake of getting the thread closed, I would be careful you don't get a temporary suspension.
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